Lulz trick room hail

Discussion in 'Team Strategies' started by Kayle, Jun 5, 2013.

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  1. Kayle

    Kayle Active Member

    I don't actually own the pokes for this team. This is theory/simulated.

    I've been trolling simulators with this team for a while just to get a feel for how VGC works. I actually really like it; I want to make a goodstuff team later, but for now, I'm going to focus on improving this one.

    Strategy: Utilize slow attackers in trick room along with the passive damage increase of hail to shut down other strategies and wreck face with huge superpower moves. Hail stops sandstorm and rain; trick room stops conventional sweepers/attackers and laughs at Tailwind; together, most strategies in the metagame can't cope as long as I set up, and I can just spam Blizzard and win.


    ABOMASNOW @ Focus Sash
    ~ Snow Warning
    Quiet Nature (- Spd, + SAtk)
    252 HP 252 SAtk
    - Ice Shard
    - Blizzard
    - Giga Drain
    - Protect

    Abomasnow's job is to switch in and set up hail. That's pretty much it. His Blizzard is pretty strong, so I can just spam that if necessary, and Ice Shard is also nice. Focus sash is pretty much to guarantee one (1) free attack upon switchin, so if I mispredict or just have to switch him into an attack to set up hail, I have a chance to switch him back out again and use Snow Warning once more. Abomasnow gets picked in many battles, but actually attacks in very few.

    GLACEON @ Ice Gem
    ~ Snow Cloak
    Quiet Nature
    252 HP 252 SAtk
    - Blizzard
    - Ice Shard
    - Signal Beam (HP ground if I decide to go super tryhard)
    - Protect

    Most of you know I'm absolutely enamored with Glaceon, but she actually has some serious competitive merit. She has THE strongest Blizzard in VGC - with an Ice Gem and absolute max Sp. Atk, she's going to destroy just about anything she hits with it instantly. The things I have ohko'd or 2hko'd might frighten you. (Tyranitar after 1 turn of hail can't stand up to it.)

    Unfortunately, Glaceon's ONLY trick is that massive blizzard. I gave her Ice Shard to help her pull out surprise KO's against things that manage to survive her insane damage, but it's very weak. Signal Beam offers additional coverage, but not much. I just can't get over how fun she is to use though. ^.^ When you just need a super nuke, there's none better.

    CONKELDURR @ Flame Orb
    ~ Guts
    Brave Nature (+ Atk, - Spd)
    252 HP 252 Atk
    - Rock Slide
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Protect

    So what you do is, you bring this guy in. You protect to get your burn if necessary. And then you proceed to destroy just about anything. Conkeldurr has a great combination of self-sustain (Drain Punch), priority (Mach Punch), and multitarget moves (Rock Slide) that is just so useful in general on an offensive Poke. But between hail and burn, he's only got a few turns to live, so you kinda have to make those attacks count.

    METAGROSS @ Lum Berry
    ~ Clear Body
    Brave Nature
    252 HP 252 Atk
    - Meteor Mash
    - Bullet Punch
    - Earthquake
    - Protect

    Metagross has a great combination of... hey, wait... yeah, Metagross and Conkeldurr both serve the same purpose - multi-faceted beatdown power strength battle fighters. Conkeldurr is more offensively based with Guts and its great type combination; Metagross is more defensively based with the Steel typing and the somewhat more mercurial Earthquake. Lum Berry combos with the next set.

    CRESSELIA @ Sitrus Berry
    ~ Levitate
    Relaxed Nature (+ Def, - Spd)
    252 HP 252 SDef
    - Swagger
    - Psyshock
    - Trick Room
    - Reflect

    Most people familiar with VGC are aware that Cresselia is a beast with absolutely stupid defensive power. This thing is so hard to 2hko it's ridiculous. Against an all-out beatdown team she virtually guarantees a first turn Trick Room just because you CAN'T kill her in one turn.

    She gives me some additional utility and flexibility, of course. Swagger is a neat status move that can help protect me against a major threat, and it can also power up Metagross for THE BIG SWINGS; starting Metagross/Cresselia can really catch people off guard when they expect an Abomasnow start, and they can end up walking into a +2 Earthquake that they weren't prepared for. Psyshock obviously has its own merit even though Cresselia is weak-as-awful, and Reflect is great because of Hail's inherent weakness to physical attackers - primarily Rock- and Fighting-types.

    JELLICENT @ Leftovers
    ~ Cursed Body
    Relaxed Nature
    252 HP 252 SAtk
    - Trick Room
    - Water Spout
    - Blizzard
    - Shadow Ball

    Cress makes a great tanky Trick Roomer; Jellicent however, makes for just as good an offensive one. Its typing and natural bulk make it hard to take out early, just like Cress, and Jellicent is considerably more resilient to disruption as it has HUGE offensive potential if I get Taunted (bait taunts and throw out a t1 Water Spout, HAH) as well as an immunity to natural Fake Outs. Water Spout HURTS at full HP, and Jellicent's Blizzards aren't anything to laugh at either.

    You may be wondering: Why Cursed Body? Because Cursed Body is hilarious, that's why. I love tanking an EQ and seeing it get disabled, or switching into Scizor's Bullet Punch and proccing Cursed Body to force a switch. Everyone expects Water Absorb and just won't bother using their water moves on me; it's not like my team has any serious Water weakness I need to deal with anyway once the ruse has been uncovered.



    Weaknesses:

    - All the power is in Glaceon (which has ONE good move) and Conkeldurr (which is on a quick-burning fuse). Some games I can start Abomasnow/Jellicent and literally spam blizzard to win, but I don't have enough offensive versatility to handle a team with more than one Steel-type.
    - Standard TR trumps me and it's kind of irritating. I'm not sure why.
    - I have no way to disrupt my opponent's setup before it happens, nor do I have any way to protect my own setup; cheese strats like Beat Up + Justified have this irritating tendency of working because I can't actually stop them from happening. I'm basically saying I need something with Fake Out, or a Prankster Taunt, that is friendly with the rest of my pokes.

    Feedback and silly comments welcome~!
     
  2. Benzo

    Benzo Front Page News Editor<br>Forum Moderator

    Hippowdon and Excadrill will eat this team alive........................ just saying!

    Standard TR rooms-trump you- what do you mean?

    Hidden Power Fire would be good to place onto Glaceon. giving a good attack to handle Steel Pokémon (or any other weak to Fire type Pokies)

    A good Pokémon for disrupting is Sableye. It's Dream World ability is Prankster, and can be loaded with disrupting moves.

    If you are wanting to focus on disrupting your opponent's set up while being able to set up your self- this is where it get's tricky. If you are wanting to win a weather war- disrupt their set-up, and have Trick Room work for you, you will need to multi-task that into two attacks from the lead and then a switch in.

    Jellicent with Cursed Body is entertaining indeed, and what is even better is tossing in a status infliction like Thunder wave or Burn.

    oh, and make sure your Sableye has an attack- it is the target of Taunt you know-
     
  3. vaporeon

    vaporeon Moderator

    I also like HP fire on Glaceon. It allows you to hit 4x weak pokemon Glaceon normally have problems with.If you want something that works well in the rain, then HP fighting works wonders. I fell HP ground is a bit outdated.
     
  4. Kayle

    Kayle Active Member

    The reason I use HP Ground with Glaceon has a bit to do with the specific Pokemon that Blizzard struggles with - Heatran is basically immune to it, and while Metagross can't KO with a bullet punch, it will survive blizzard and KO with Meteor Mash. Metagross isn't weak to Fighting; Heatran isn't weak to Fire. But, to be fair, Bronzong becomes a problem if I'm using Ground, too.

    In a real team I would just take whichever one I could get, to be honest! And I might go for Signal Beam anyway.

    I'd like to hear your guys' thoughts on that in a little more detail though.


    I like Sableye a lot, but I'm not sure where it fits on the team - I don't want to take out Jellicent or Cress for it because having two Trick Roomers is great but I'm worried about my offensive prowess if I take out anyone else.
     
  5. Benzo

    Benzo Front Page News Editor<br>Forum Moderator

    How often do you run into Heatran? True, Ground will fair better off against the Pokémon, but depending on how common you encounter Heatran should be considered verses other threats that do not require a full focus on such as Heatran. In Double Battles- with TR in effect along with Hail- Glaceon IMO would better off relying on it's partner to give opposing threats the worry factor.

    If, and if you do run into a Heatran in the battle- and Glaceon is your power house hitter- some sort of disruption such as Sleep could come in handy. If Glaceon holds the Bright Powder with Hail in effect, your looking at increasing evasiveness to assist. Just some thoughts there is all.

    Other threats that could put Glaceon out number Heatran by a lot- you can not put entrustment in a team to be able to cover every scenario. Youll need to be able to turn the tides in a battle if you do face a main threat, but coverage from a higher number compared to the 1 Pokemon that can destroy your team is a far shot of survival against other Pokémon.

    You will need to rely more on your skills, timing, predictions, a bit of luck, and implementing some disruptions to thwart their set up while maintaining you pace at sticking to your strategy verses trumping all of what they are trying to do.

    I will take a more thorough look into how Glaceon fits into this team as the basis of being the heavy hitter, and see what Pokémon in your team will be the supporting role and seeing other move sets.

    This is where it is tough to focus on one Pokémon in doubles, with all of the Pokémon trying to cover a vast compilation of threats, or being built specifically to counter one major threat verses the many that face it.
     
  6. vaporeon

    vaporeon Moderator

    My Pidgeot struggles with some Pokemon that resist it. Her move set is Air Slash, Heatwave, HP Fighting and Roost. The reason I opted for HP Fighting and remove HP Ground was because fighting is more useful on her. HP fighting allows me to his T-Tars for about 54 percent with Pidgeots Special Attack, since I know I'll out speed them and allow me to place heavy damage on it or finish one off. I use to like HP Ground on her but ever since Air Balloon was released, Pokemon she use to be able to take down (Magnezone, Heatran and other Pokemon x4 week to HP Ground), she can no longer contend with them because of the chance they are carrying the Air Ballon and if they are carrying, I lose a turn and possibly a attacker.

    Air Balloon is the ONLY reason I choose to not use HP Ground anymore so HP Fighting is the next best option. Glaceon has about 140 more special attack then Pidgeot so a HP Fighting will do about 70+ percent to T-Tar and around the same to Heatran, since he's fighting weak. Biggest advantage I have with Pidgeot is her Heatwave attack so I have a bit more play room.

    Since your Glaceon is on a Trick Room hail team, I recommend this set

    Name:Glaceon
    Ability: Snow Cloak or Ice Body to complement Glaceons bulk
    Nature: Rash
    Item: Choice Specs
    IVs: 31 HP, 31 ATK, 30 DEF, 30 SATK, 30 SDEF, 2 SPD <--- HP Fighting 70
    EVs: 252 Special Attack, 196 HP, 60 Special Defense

    Moveset

    Blizzard
    Hidden Power Fighting
    Signal Beam
    Water Pulse


    This set aims to hit everything extremely hard, be it not very effective, neutral or super effective. Most Pokemon on a team will go down to her if they cant wall her effectively. My Choice Specs max special attack Vaporeon hits Keldeo for about 60 percent with Hydro Pump. A Choiced Specs Blizzard in the Hail will destroy just about anything and put heavy damage on others.

    HP Fighting is better here because of reason I stated before with Air Balloon. A CS HP Fighting should take down your threats in one hit, which is what you wanted with HP Ground to begin with. With HP Fighting, you dont have to worry about Air Balloon but can get the same results.

    Signal Beam allows you to hit things like Umbreon and Cresselia pertty hard, in most cases a 2HKO put the chance of confusion. My Vaporeon has a great track record with her Signal Beam, dropping many Umbreons and Cresselias that dont expect it or have a way to handle it. Also hits dark types hard as well and is a weapon I use against Weavile.

    The Special IV spread allows Glaceon to be slower in Trick Room as it has a IV in Speed of 2, versus 31 for the same HP Fighting 70. Her EV spread allows for the maximum Special Attack with her given IVs. She will have 393 Special Attack and not 394 because of her IVs for Hidden Power Fighting. She also has some bulk. Glaceons Defensive states are above normal for Eeveelutions as most are poor in a defensive stat. However Glaceons HP sucks so I added enough to raise it from its 270 to 320, making it take hits better.

    As for her ability, I would test with Ice Body to see how well it works with her because with her new found bulk, it may pay off when and gives her more staying power and HP recovery. When paired with Screens, Glaceon will me a monster.

    Water Pulse is just for type coverage. Run it for the same reason the Lati Twins run it. If you can win a weather war and keep your hail going against a sun team, this helps deal with the fire types they run. Also allows you to hit Excadrill, Steelix and other Steel/Ground types for weakness.
     
  7. Kayle

    Kayle Active Member

    Benzo, I really appreciate your breakdown and analysis. Regarding Glaceon's role in the team, we can think of her as a specialized nuke. In some games, she gets walled; and in some games, she just isn't needed. That's fine. But, especially if I adopt Vaporeon's set, Glaceon is capable of responding to some huge walls, notably Cresselia, Amoonguss (OUTSIDE of TR...), Gliscor, etc. This is her niche - wallbreaking; when it comes to just straight sweeping, I'd rather use Jellicent, Abomasnow, or some fighting-type.

    Hopefully, that helps with the considerations of who she does and doesn't work with. Pokemon that fear the walls she can take out would work great with her.


    Vaporeon; one of the things that makes Glaceon unique is that she actually doesn't benefit from coverage moves in the same way that most sweepers or wallbreakers do. A neutral Blizzard outdamages any of her coverage moves unless they are 4x super effective. Shadow Ball deals 51-60% to physically defensive Cresselia; Blizzard does the same amount, except it also hits Cresselia's partner. Assuming hail damage, either move will absolutely 2HKO, and possibly 2HKO through Sitrus Berry.

    So, that's part of why I pick HP Ground - HP Fire might be better, but HP Fighting has a couple of problems.
    • It hits very few things 4x effectively.
    • Many strong wall-esque Steel-types are only neutral to Fighting; this is what makes them viable walls.

    HP Fire allows Glaceon to decimate Scizor (though, with your EV spread, she will not survive a bullet punch) and Ferrothorn. HP Ground allows her to destroy Heatran. Fire will 2hko levitating Bronzong.

    Her HP choice is primarily to help against Steel-type walls, but bear in mind, hitting super-effectively doesn't matter if she's only going to deal 40% anyway. Glaceon should be doing 60-75% to anything she hits (if not outright KOing them). If she doesn't, I should be using someone else in that particular game.
     
  8. vaporeon

    vaporeon Moderator

    You're right about that. Glaceon will hit most things for 60 percent on neutral damage anyway. HP fire will be better to hit things like you said. Just do some testing with it.
     

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