Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by vorg7, Jan 26, 2008.
What will be better when GE comes out Fire Truck or Magkiss?
I think Fire Truk will continue to be better because Togekiss is a one-time use. With Typhlosion, you only need 5-6 spaces, whereas with Togekiss you're gonna need at least a 3-2-3 line. Then, once you've used the Togekiss, they're done unless you have Super Scoop Up, which eats even more list room. Remember- Togekiss doesn't make you invincible, it just gives you a big attack. A Gallade is going to knock you out just as easily as if you had 3 or 4 energy on you, which is possible considering that unless you're playing a lot of energy, you'll get low numbers a good amount of the time.
The only thing I like Togekiss better for is attacking against water decks.
But with wailord coming out that might be usefull
why don't you test it and tell us?
^I have tested it and along with Bobby's comment, he is 100 % correct and Typhlosion is 100 % better than Togekiss
Togekiss isn't suitable in this deck. Sure, mortar's attack is based on the amount of energy, but then when it gets KOed, ure back to square one. Now you have no more energy accelerate whatsoever.
You also sit there doing nothing because Togekiss is an atrocious attacker. At least Typhlosion can do something vs a Gardevoir who's lacking powers. Plus Typhlo has more room in the deck for draw/useful cards so it doesn't just scoop when it can't use powers.
Typhlosion also recycles energy, increasing your energy supply; as apposed to searching and grabbing, thus eating away at your energy supply. Better attack, better power, and more use means Typhlosion is more useful in this deck.
Don't forget that Blaziken's actually possible now instead of Typho, 'cause Blaziken has new stage 1s for once (though the old Smokescreen ones were okay...), AND we're getting Pachirisu.. Actually, I think the whole Corsola being able to look for Cyndaquil d, but no Torchic d to look for is the big reason why we're getting Typho's in Fire TRUK rather then Blazikens...
Anyways, Magmortar gets more powerful with each energy on it, but also can discard 2 energy to do 100 damage anywhere (LV.X's attack is much more useful then one might think... As odd as that sounds). If you're discarding energies... What is Togekiss going to do to help you out? If you're using Energy Draw, how can Togekiss help you? You've just thrown it's ammo away...
There's like... No combo that Togekiss has with discarding energies, and that's the problem with comboing it w/ Magmortar, who really loves the speed boost of Delcatty...
I think theres Thypolosion>Blaziken is because Typhlosion has more HP and does more damage
Corsola as a starter made FireTRUK a possible deck... Trust me, it's nowhere near as effective if you can't swarm basics out quickly. THAT is the key point for Typholosion. And unfortunately, we get Pachirisu in Great Encounters, which eliminates Typho's advantage.
Theoretically, you shouldn't be relying on Typho to attack, and neither should you be relying on Blazi for attacking. Of course, both have attacks that Magmortar could pair quite well with (Blaziken: 10 to all pokemon on bench. Don't forget GE counterpart can act like a mini-Magmortar LV.X if needed, nor forget Blaziken EX for a quick 100 damage no matter what or Fighting Type Drag Off to counter stuff like Dugtrio that prevents Bench Damage. Typholosion: Discards DRE. More situational, but can win Gallade matches for you). Attacks are not relevant, 'cause both are useful. If anything Blaziken line has more options to set up into, and actually wins that department. HP is not relevent, 'cause neither will be attacking... The 110 over 100 IS big in the mirror match, but Delcatty is vulnerable on your bench as well, so it's not like Blaze is your only sitting duck on the bench (and again, you can use Blaziken GE to double up on sniper duty and eliminate THIER Delcatty lines... Actually really quickly, for only 3 fire energy). Therefore, the only part that is relevant is how easy they are to set up. Pre Great Encounters you can either use Cyndaquil and be able to Corsola for 3 pokemon, or use Torchic and be stuck with only 2 pokemon from Corsola (might as well Tauros at that point). After GE, there's no such restriction on Torchic. Fun, eh?
Now to relate this to the conversations of FireTRUK vs. MagKiss...
Does MagKiss have a secondary attacker that's as beneficial as either Typholosion or Blaziken? Last I checked... Togekiss was doing reliably 40 for 3 energy (ew, that's inefficient). Of course, you can get heads to do 70 damage, which is... Much weaker then Magmortar. Why are we attacking with Togekiss AT ALL? The Firestarters make up more then an emergency plan; they can abuse secondary effects to go places which Magmortar on his own might need more help to do. Togekiss can either do inferior damage to Magmortar, or heal itself. Why are we even bothering to heal Togekiss? I thought we wanted it dead, so we could recycle that? Either that, or scoop it up. EITHER WAY, you're not in any sort of mood to care how much damage is on Togekiss. :/
Togekiss can't even do anything interesting with it's basic or stage 1. If you try to use the delta versions (which actually have okay attacks, though their HP fails at life), you can't due to water energy requirements. Torchic can burn pokemon for 1 fire (no flip~), Cyndaquil (not d) can do 10 damage for no energy, Quilava can do 40 for 2 energy unlike Togetic's mere 30 (which won't 2 hit KO many stage 1s, unlike Quilava), and Combusken can do 60 damage for 1 energy (Though it'll take a turn to set up the first 60). It'd be one thing to have failure attacks if you had better HP and free retreat, but Togepi and Togetic have same HP as Torchic/Combusken, and MORE retreat cost then Combusken. What's wrong with this picture...?
So... FireTRUK gets more benefit from the secondary line's powers then MagKiss... FireTRUK has better secondary attackers then Magkiss.. HECK, FireTRUK has a better starter then MagKiss (You can't argue that Pachirisu into having a full bench then a really easy Delcatty drop is a set up possible in MagKiss, unless you WANT to make Togekiss worthless. To make Togekiss most effective, you'll want a Fishing Engine, which works a lot better if you sacrifice your starter for the cause :/). Seems better for Magmortar in just about every way. At least to me it does. Maybe my bias for Typholosion in general (as much as I hate to admit Blaziken could be better if you're bulking the line up significantly) is skewing this analysis?
Fire TRUK seems alot better than Magkiss for obvious reasons.
Typhlosion is actually more useful than Blaziken because of how much play DRE sees, bieng able to discard it can be amazingly game breaking.
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