Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Nats Sour Grapes

In my opinion, everyone who sat out Nats is a coward, coward, COWARD, and is basically admitting their metagame is horrible. Ross and Kettler wont even HESITATE to play 30 battle road games but not a single Nationals game? (actually, ONE nats game, and it was a loss) That's basically saying "I know my metagame is bad. I refuse to play against people who actually know what they're doing. Why would I play against good players when I can just beat on the bad ones". Let's say Ross's rating before his last battle road was 2030. Are you telling me this kid will play a tourney with 2030, but NOT with 2050? He has to be SO sure that his opponents are gunna be GOD awful at that battle road in order to justify that. He knows that if he takes ONE loss, then he will lose points on the day, thus in order for him to correctly play the tournament, he has to be CERTAIN that hes not taking a loss. When you're CERTAIN you're not taking a loss in a game of luck, you just know your battle road is full of horrible players.

I love how your such an expert on what I did, and who I faced at battle roads. Two people even QFT'd this statement, amazing. =/
My metagame is very good. Definitely top 5 in the nation. I had to go 4-0 against Paul J who just top 32'd nationals, and went to sudden death with the eventual 2nd place finisher. I also had a winning record in many battles with him during cities. I beat Michael C (undefeated in Nats swiss) at my last Battle Road, and had I believe about a 4-1 record against him during cities. I also had to go 4-0 against Tyler N during BRs, who is the back-to-back Northwest Regionals Champion. I think Washington's success in the younger divisions is also a direct reflection of the good players in the masters division, but I won't even get into that.
Going 34-3 during my BRs was harder than making nats top cut. Not sure what level I'd compare it to beyond that. Unless you come to Washington and play in all the tourneys I do, I don't want you telling me how good our player base is, or how hard the battle roads were.
And how dare you call me a coward Chuck? I believe you made a post about BRs before nats where you said you deliberately sat out BRs as it was the smart thing to do. You feared a loss. Now you're going to bring up the coward argument now against me?
For everyone else that thinks they know exactly my mindset over the last month+ of Pokemon, I'll tell you exactly how my mindset changed.
My original goal was to raise from 1830 to 1930 over the BR season. I did this with still 2 weeks left of BRs. I won another to go to 1970. Still worth it to try to go higher, and I had been very successful thus far, though having many close, close games. I went 4-0 drop in my next tournament after defeating Paul J, the 2nd highest rated player in WA and potentially getting paired down to a couple bad matchups. My rating then was ~2003. Another reason I decided to drop (and I really wasn't sure what I wanted to do, and at the last second just wrote 'drop'), was I thought I was in position to sit out nats and go to worlds. I thought about the prospects of that all that Saturday night. I wanted to play in nats, I didn't like my position. I figured where I was I could sit out nats, but not play and risk a loss. If I won another tourney though, I would be in position to play til I got a loss, a much better prospect. So the next day, the last BR, I risked my rating, which I correctly thought was high enough for a trip, with one more BR. That day, I beat Michael C, Paul J, Tyler N, and Paul J again. The latter 3 matches all came to time, with me holding off Paul J's comeback in the finals. I was where I wanted to be, able to play until a loss at least at nats.
When I came to nats, I was disappointed to see just how many Infernape mirrors there were. I had tested many decks against Infernape with little success. Castform-type setup decks (which I had played all year) were especially bad against Infernape. After extensive testing, I went into nats believing Infernape to be the deck I would play. The amount of mirrors that appeared Thursday was way more than I thought would be there though. Having to face so many mirrors didn't make Ape seem like a winning play. I tested with my team even more possible counters to Ape, with limited success. Thursday I found out about Jeremy S (who placed 3rd in Senior's) success with Empoleon/Marowak. Hearing the great success, I figure I would play this for nats. So I test it Friday and get some horrible horrible starts. The deck didn't seem consistant to me at all. I also worried about being able to play it correctly, as it is a somewhat difficult deck to master. Very different from the setup decks I'd played all year basically. About the 5th really bad game with Empoleon, I decided I could not play that the next day. I went back to testing Ape and went to the tournament area to test vs mirrors. I found out that you really can't outplay the mirror, as I'd feared. Every ape mirror would be a 5050, plus all the counters going around, like Empoleon. So the situation didn't seem good. I'm sure I wasn't nearly the only one that had concerns over their deck choice for nationals going into the night before. The difference was I had a safety net I could use.
There was one more thing to do though, I had done a lengthy mock nationals using slips of paper, and a 20-sided dice to determine results. I wanted to get an estimate of the ratings invite cut line. I hadn't finished the top cut though, too busy testing etc. So Friday night I did finish it. My results had the 8th place invite at 2015, and 7th place 2028. If I was slightly off and 2028 was closer to the cutline, playing even til just the first loss could take me out. Even Kettler after his first loss and drop wasn't entirely sure his 2020s rating would make it. If I played, I would also have to start about 5-0 to be able to keep playing after a loss (not even Fulop did that). So I figured if I played at all, I would have little chance of winning nats (just needing to start 5-0 and not having a great deck for the metagame imo), and I would also have a little chance of losing my invite. I decided the small chance of winning wasn't worth the small chance of losing my invite.
So it wasn't an easy decision to not play. Until friday night, I was leaning more towards playing til sitting. I did what I had done to get to my position though, I saw the situation and made the wise decision. I had dropped in BRs when the situation was not advantageous, and this was the same thing. I did weigh in the possibility of winning nats but I had many reasons to not play as well. I wanted to go to worlds. I would've gone anyways probably, but I really wanted to go without needing my parents to pay for another trip this season. I also like playing in 64 person tournament over a 400+ one. I still have some unfinished business at worlds from 05. This decision was not easy, and I know many people would have chosen both sides if they were in my situation. Sure, Eric Craig and Chuck who had great chances of rating invites did very well proving that playing was a good choice. However, there are also many recognizable names at 6-3 that will tell you the perils of needing to get through a 400 person tournament that could've easily been Craig or Chuck. In fact, I wasn't even the only person who chose this path. Many Seniors did as well.
So anyways, my decision was not easy and was not made til the night before the tournament, weighing in metagame and my own deck. My BRs were anything but easy, and it's just too easy for any of you sitting at home to say that. I deserve every bit of credit for my BR record. Why don't you guys ask me before speculating on what I did or what I thought.
Edit: Kettler has a good analogy 2 posts above.
 
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Some of you, (definitely not all of you) I think are just jealous that some people were able to sit nats and secure the invite to Worlds, while you had to try to tough it out through Nats and failed.

Another bunch of you are trying to find a scapegoat to rag on to make you feel better about your own/the system's shortcomings this season.

It isn't John Kettler's fault; it isn't Ross Cawthon's fault. They both made intellegent judgements based on their situation. Leave them alone.
 
Some of you, (definitely not all of you) I think are just jealous that some people were able to sit nats and secure the invite to Worlds, while you had to try to tough it out through Nats and failed.

Another bunch of you are trying to find a scapegoat to rag on to make you feel better about your own/the system's shortcomings this season.

It isn't John Kettler's fault; it isn't Ross Cawthon's fault. They both made intellegent judgements based on their situation. Leave them alone.

well said.
 
Kettler and Ross did not lose their Worlds trip.

The same can't be said for everyone.

They chose wisely and it seems like the only people complaining are the ones who with Kettler and Ross and (a) played and (b) lost. More importatly, lost.

Had Kettler and Ross played and won, this play would be deathly quiet.
 
Kettler and Ross did not lose their Worlds trip.

The same can't be said for everyone.

They chose wisely and it seems like the only people complaining are the ones who with Kettler and Ross and (a) played and (b) lost. More importatly, lost.

Had Kettler and Ross played and won, this play would be deathly quiet.

We have a winner !
 
That's probably the best logic I've heard over this topic in ages, but here's another way to think about it.

EC and myself want "two" apples (the first apple being the guaranteed trip, the second being the wonderful nats prizes), so we gladly take a little bit of a risk, and run through the flying knives for a lwhile. If we get hit by one knife, then obviously we'll need to go back to the hospital for recovery, but Ross is 100% content with the apple he has.

Ross, rather than risk one of those knives hitting him square in the head, sat, content with his one apple. EC avoided any of the flying knives until late in the day, but I got hit by one, and had to be sent back to the hospital (by a particularly sharp knife, might I add).

Exactly why should ross and kettler play for 5K by risking the 1.5K or so coming to them already? 400 players in masters, just one me, 400 to 1 when the pot is 3 to 1 is NOT good pot odds.
 
KingGengar;893415Now said:
me[/I] sit out Nats if I had had Ross' rating beforehand: (1) the trip to Hawaii, which is very cool, even with the Sharpedos, and (2) the possibility of having my deck become a World Champ deck, sold on the shelves of FYE (I don't think the National Champion receives that).

So, I agree with Ross' decision. If he has different priorities than winning Nationals, who are we to judge his courage?

Sorry But Ross has little chance to ever have one of his decks get reprinted by POP. When he finished
2nd place in 2005 World Championship for 15+ they did not make his deck. Ross makes very outstanding decks, but they tend to be so Tech heavy that the average player who tried to use it would not understand it. They work great for Ross but I don't think he will get one picked for a World Chamionship deck.
 
Spending 18K on pokemon decorations might seem ridonkulous, but its for the kids. The fact that they get abused by the older players is sad, but probably shows how little we care about them when we are seen riding them or fighting them or making obscene gestures to their backsides.

Honestly I wanted to just post about how "Kant was seen riding a Turtwig", I only wish I could have seen it with my own eyes.
 
Pidgeotto Trainer -

Your post above, although not needed, is a very detailed summation of the choices folks had to make this season.

Whether to sit, play, drop, etc was driven by the construct of the Premier Rating system. If your eye was on the goal, Worlds, then you did what you had to do.

For those of you bashing folks who sat, dropped, etc. Let it go.

Sour Grapes stink but the smell eventually fades.....
 
Is the ape mirror match really just a coin toss to see who wins? Is the ape mirror really decided early with no possibility of recovery for the better player? I hope not as the prospect of skill less wins isn't one I look forward too.
 
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Sorry But Ross has little chance to ever have one of his decks get reprinted by POP. When he finished 2nd place in 2005 World Championship for 15+ they did not make his deck. Ross makes very outstanding decks, but they tend to be so Tech heavy that the average player who tried to use it would not understand it. They work great for Ross but I don't think he will get one picked for a World Chamionship deck.

JandPDS is right. I was watching the final match (in the Phoenix Gym Battle Road) between Paul J and Ross, and both Paul's and Ross's decks made my eyes spin. Seriously, I don't know how they make them work, and I am an "average" player.
 
This also comes into your perspective of what the Nationals event was for.

Andrew's goal all season was to make it to Worlds. Period.

The ratings system had us doing things that would not have been done otherwise.

He sat out 2 States, and all the Battle Roads, because winning a game was worth 1 point, losing 31.

He also did not want to keep beating on his friends.

(And also, his friends were being trained, and getting much better)

He did want to defend his National title, so we worked it out.

He played to 1 loss, if the loss came in round 5 or later, and he had beaten "someone", then he kept going to 2 losses. Never to 3.

As it turned out, he defeated the #2 player in round 3 (or 4) - a fellow Drunken Monkey.

He then finished 7-1 swiss, and went on to play in day 2....

Had he gone 0-1, he would have dropped and grabbed an orange shirt.

I wasn't one of those parents with a laptop and spreadsheet, but I certainly consulted one of them.

In an ideal system, he would have played in every event available to him, but this is a GAME, and the object is to win. What were we trying to win? A trip to Worlds. Did it work? Yep.

Did we stall, cheat, or use any questionable tactics? NO. Did we play our cards as the system required us to? YEP

I just have trouble with a system that encourages players to sit out when they reach a certain level, but, that effects such a small (but vocal) percentage of the players, that it will not be worried about.

I will say this...I have changed my opinion about one crucial point. Nationals SHOULD be a points event. The best should have to prove themselves against the best! I say that with a son who got knocked out from the #12 spot too. Wouldn't be right to not have the big event count!

See you on the big island!

Vince
 
:ppowr:Vince -

Great post.

Working within the confines of the invites construct is NOT to faulted.

Your son had a goal, he met it. :clap::clap::clap:

Steve
 
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