New trainer engines?

Discussion in 'TCG News & Gossip Discussion' started by BANGINBOX, Aug 15, 2003.

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    BANGINBOX New Member

    Assuming that the new format will be E-on with best promos what search engines would you use? with the loss of trader, breeder and so many other crutial search cards the game has seemed to slow to a crawl. copycat has lost its potency without cleffa. one supporter per turn does not seem viable, even with elm. with only one 50/50 chance for manipulation this also slows the game. warp point and cyclone energy arent enough. here is one of the engines that i am trying...

    4 juggler
    3 oaks research
    3 dual ball/ masterball
    3 fastball/ star piece
    4 elm
    4 warp point......

    are these the basic elements needed to run in this format. what are you doing differently.

    Last edited: Aug 15, 2003
  2. Extreme Espeon

    Extreme Espeon New Member

    Yeah, that sounds about right! I also would expect to see many more grass decks with the lack of of Entei/Cargo, while at the same time Scizor will have not much to fear but scizor itself. Yeah, but the game my not be as fast paced once the new format is out, with having not much more then supporters as good trainers.
    What am I going to do without my rogues!!!! *soob*
  3. Baboon

    Baboon New Member

    Well, the only time one concrete Trainer engine works across the board usually is in Unlimited, but what you have does appear to be quite good.

    I still think Copycat will be quite good. Considering the slower game, people will most likely have a number of cards in their hand they can't play, so even without the set 7 cards from Cleffa, your opponent may end up with something similar anyway.

    Here's the cards I think will be in many decks... (of course, not ALL of these, but a number of them)

    Copycat/Oak's Research (Personal choice)
    Master/Fast Ball (Personal choice)
    Forest Guardian (Questionable on this one)
    Town Volunteers
    Prof. Birch

    As mentioned before though, yes, 1 Supporter a turn is not that great. But, it's yet another attempt to limit Trainers in the game. First came Dark Plume, then Chaos Gym, then Prop 15, then Slowking, and now Supporters owning everything... @[email protected]
    I guess we will have to depend a little more on the non-Supporter cards, even though many of them aren't as good as Supporters.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2003
  4. Noah121

    Noah121 Active Member

    I think it's a good thing that the Trainer cards are becoming a weaker influence in the game, as they were way too relied on in Unlimited, and the old Modified, too. Even though that means less card-drawing and more luck-base, there is still a lot of card-drawing/searching in the E-on format.
  5. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Actually, what I like about Pokemon is the balance of strategy vs. luck. Pushing that balance more toward luck is a bad idea, IMHO.
  6. Darkleaf Master

    Darkleaf Master New Member

    Well, I think that its ok that we are straying away from trainer cards... Its pokemon... Not trainermon, like I heard somebody say in the old pokegym a long time ago. As for draw power, Ive had my eye on furret.... I believe his first attack requires one colorless energy and allows you to search for 2 cards in your deck.... an instant computer search for free and you get 2 cards instead of one... Of course you have to spare a turn to attack..... :D :thumb: Well, I still think that elm and copycat will be some of the best draw power though..besides... we still got Eek Promo Cleffa :lol:
  7. TeSp

    TeSp New Member

    For sure.. The luck has a job deciding who will win and soon. But it is luck in every game (I think). Look at magic, if you draw nothing but bad cards and no mana. No luck... No win.. :p
    My point is that it's luck in everygame. And it's some more luck in Pokemon, but luck is luck..
  8. LugiasForce

    LugiasForce New Member

    Trainer engine

    Search engines will be something like this:

    4 Copycat
    4 Prof. Oak's Research
    4 Prof. Elm

    Without Cleffa, 4 of each will be mandatory in all of my decks.

    As for the other trainers, that depends on the deck being used.
  9. Baboon

    Baboon New Member

    I don't quite know about that...
    To me, I think that's going slightly overboard, as instead of Copycat or Oak's Research (pick one), something like Juggler may take that place. Having mostly ALL cards that change your hand is not that greatest, as you can't retain things for later use, and just have to hope you'll stumble across it again later.
    But yes, you will have to use more Trainers as Cleffa equaled a Trainer basically.
  10. The Dark Llama

    The Dark Llama New Member

    Oracle will be big, especially combo with Bill/Promo Cleffa. Linoone might be useful too. I also see Copycat holding more power and cards like Oak's Reasearch and BIll's maintanance getting better.

    Hehe, forget the big powerholder in Fire decks... Entei is gone, so you'll have to rely on FireStarter Blaziken to help you get some more energy.

    Scizor is definetely gonna take a bigger grasp on the environment.
  11. Pidgeotto Trainer

    Pidgeotto Trainer New Member

    They may take out LC so there would be no Bill. I doubt they will keep promo Cleffa. There abolishing all the other free retreat babies.
  12. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    Well this is an interesting one. 4 Elm and 4 Juggler with 2-3 Fan Club and 3-4 Elms Training Method may work well. Or fastball depending on the evolution. This would be an interesting format as the draw power is going to be somewhat interesting to work with. Let me explain.

    Juggler is a GREAT card and one of the best in the new format IF your running a decent amount ( 14+ ) basic NRG. But many decks will run Metals or other non basic NRG and thus Juggler becomes useless. What do you add? Perhaps Oracle to set your deck up for Metal Metal TDs.

    If your running one stage one as your evolution, go Fast Ball for sure. Multiple Evos or Stage 2s? Elms Training Method MAY deserve a look ( verdict is still out on this one...Id have to test it )

    What I am trying to get at is that different deck ideas can utilize different trainer engines. I do not expect 4 Elm 4 Copycat to be the standard draw anymore. It may diversify itself a bit. PERSONALLY, one of my draw engines Id like to test is...

    4 Elm
    4 Oracle
    3 Skitty
    3 Delcatty
    3 Prof Elm Training Method
    3 Copycat

    You have your standard Elm Copycat line, with Oracles tossed in and DELCATTY, which lets you ditch a basic NRG to draw 3. Oracle, ditch a water, draw that Oracle plus an extra. Works GREAT.

    I also think that the biggest form of draw amy not even be in the form of a trainer. Delcatty is THAT good. Look for it to be in almost every deck, if not every, just like Cleffa was. Delcatty is the big star of the game with NEO gone. I put my money on it.
  13. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

    Personally, I like to balance my trainer engine into these categories:

    1. Draw
    2. Search
    3. Tech
    4. Theme (how well they support the deck's goal)

    But, before I give my suggestions, personally, I think EON format shouldn't (and probably won't) include any WOTC non-E promos (i.e. Elm).

    In order of my preferences:

    -CopyCat (must have 4 in every deck)
    -Oak's Research (2-3)
    -Juggler (0-4 - if it supports the theme)

    -Fan Club (2 in every deck)
    -Oracle (0-4 depending on use of Delcatty, etc).
    -Elm's Training Method (2-3)
    -Forrest Guardian (2-4 - better than Master Ball)
    -Lady Outing (2 - for multi color decks only)

    -Town Volunteers (1-2 in every deck)
    -Fisherman (0-2)
    -Desert Shaman (0-2 - "potentially" the best Disruption card in EON format)

    -Energy Switch, Pokemon Nurse, .....

    BUT, with many of these being supporters, I expect my EON trainer engines to be around 18-22, smaller than my 22-26 modified and 24-30+ unlimited engines.
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2003
  14. pokeprofRaymond

    pokeprofRaymond New Member

    When Sandstorm EX is released Rare Candy can replace Breeder ( too advance I know but it might help IMO).

    Switch is still another card to watch for, especially you can now only retreat once per turn and Prof Elm Training Method/Fastball combo for evolution decks.

    That's all I could say for now....... ;)
  15. Articjedi

    Articjedi Active Member

    First of all, there is no way to tell what the format is going to be, but if the format is E-on, there won't be any bill to work with anyway.

    Juggler really doesn't look that good, because you would have to have a fairly high energy count to even have the energy in your hand to use, otherwise, it's a bad bill's maintainence. Maybe It'll find use in Blaziken decks. So it'll probably be...

    4 elm
    4 copycat
    4 oracle
    2 promo cleffa

    there could also be a 2/2 delcatty family in most decks, instead of promo cleffa, since the power is reusable, and just a higher TV count.

    People could also just use lionne instead of oracle at all.
  16. RainbowRichards

    RainbowRichards Active Member

    I've had my eye on Rare Candy ever since reading nick15's spoiler for ADV2 :clap:...
  17. mozartrules

    mozartrules New Member

    Steve, you have a very good point here. Desert Shaman is almost as good as Oak's Research for you and can also be used to destroy the work of the opponent if he plays Oracle (unless the opponent has Bill), Delcatty or the Sandstorm Wynuat (judging from Nick15s translations).
  18. Mr_Fuji

    Mr_Fuji New Member

    SteveP pretty much covered all I can think of (Did anyone mention furret, clefable, and/or lanoone?)
  19. Scizor

    Scizor New Member

    Yeah T-Tar summed it up pretty well. I cant believe cleffa and Linoone are being mentioned though. Linoone is a good card for sure, but there is enough draw in EON to not run it. I mean u can get ANY TWO cards if you oracle and delcatty in one turn as Chris said. Delcatty is going to be that good and anyone that doesnt see its power is going to lose out big time.

    4 Elm (If winners are included)
    4 Juggler
    4 Copycat
    3 Delcatty
    2 Training Method
    This would be good for a deck like Blaziken or possibly EGatr.

    or u can do something like
    4 CC
    4 Elm
    4 Oracle
    3 Delcatty
    2 Training Method

    There are a lot of interesting combos and Delcatty just makes Oracle extremely broken. In Blaziken the card advantage is just insane. Seriously the draw in this format is VERY good and it could live without elm, although there would be a lot of supporters, but with oracle it will still be good. And if it were LC ON we get Trader and Bill, which would make the draw one of the most consistant it has ever been in modified.
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