Niniken - Mudkip's Invention Revealed

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by Venusaur, Mar 27, 2004.

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  1. Venusaur

    Venusaur Active Member

    Niniken - The CC Winner

    2 Delcatty RSH
    2 Skitty SS
    4 Dunsparce SS
    3 Ninetales EXP
    3 Vulpix AQ
    4 Blaziken RSH
    1 Combusken RS1
    4 Torchic DR

    2 Warp Point
    1 Town Volunteers
    4 Oracle
    4 TV Reporter
    2 Copycat
    3 Professor Oak's Research
    2 High Pressure System
    4 Rare Candy

    15 Fire Energy

    I'm sure other people have Niniken deck lists out there, but I say this is an invention because I think Mudkip has the most superior Niniken deck list, and he's a superior player, one of the best in the world. Now that the CC's are over, Mudkip is letting me post his Niniken list that he used to win many tournaments. (He won't post it cause he's lazy :p ) This probably wasn't used at a lot of tournaments since he didn't give out the decklist which was smart of him, I should've done that with BAR.
    The first time I saw Mudkip use this deck in apprentice I thought he was a noob. He was using Solrock and Lunatone, and different types of energy so he wouldn't discard them all with Ninetales. After a while he sorta stopped using the deck. But after playing on the Pojo ladder for so long he started improving the deck, adding Dunsparce, making all the energy fire, and adding HPS when Dragon came out, and after playing him with BAR against it, my BAR lost everytime. That was when I saw it was a great deck.
    Still I didn't think it was the best deck. I was like "This doesn't have a chance against water". Soon everyone on the Pojo ladder was playing it and I realized, What water?? There is no good water in the eon format! That's when I think I saw Niniken as being better than BAR :( So ya... a few people use it at tournaments..but Mudkip is the only one I know that went to his tournaments in Mexico and won them all with this deck that he finally decided to reveal :)
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2004
  2. MonkeyMan

    MonkeyMan New Member

    This still loses to water :p j\k

    Anyways nice deck seems to smash BAR and BR variants quite well

    I dont like the 3/2 Oaks research copycat ratio though I think I would go 4/1 but w/e
  3. Pablo

    Pablo New Member

    copy is for mirrors, and what the most popular deck? blazi so ya thats why i played 2

  4. 2 words, (plus one more): Omastar eats rarecandy.
  5. Pablo

    Pablo New Member

    3 words: who plays omastar? -_____-
  6. SuperWooper

    SuperWooper New Member

    Wrong list Jermy. You forgot the tECh Sudowoodu and the multi.

    I'm ashamed of you. BTW, did you get the tickets to Mexico yet? :D

    Sorry about the inside joke.

  7. Pablo

    Pablo New Member

    ya this is the list that became populaar in Pojo, not the one I play cause of my meta.

  8. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    Yes it is a very good list! I am still not sure if it is the BEST list for Blaziken as there are a few things that must be accounted for. Heres what I consider the advantages and disadvantages of what IMO are the three or four main Blaziken varients.

    1.) BAR- Strongest threat once set up and it does not rely on Switches. It also does the best vs Water, such as Omastar ( Used at my CC ), Kingdra, and decks using Wailords. All of those may not be huge threats, but they are enough of one to make a difference. With the popularity BAR and Blaz EX are getting now, Water usage as a counter will only jump. It does ok vs Muk EX, a viable threat to Blaziken decks. The loss of Amphys power is a bit unsettling but it isn't too bad.

    2.) Blaziken Rayquaza- This is the most consistant list as you have more open spaces for draw power, energy, and proper evolution lines. With more switch cards and less reliance on Amphy, it does slightly better vs Muk EX too. Since it can also fit in Crystal Shard it does better vs Salamence. To be fair, I will also include 2 varients into this style, as they could not be fit into any of the others. Aerodactyl EX and Wobbuffet. Some players run a 1-1 Aero EX line to prevent opponents use of Crystal Shard. This makes it much harder for Water decks to beat your Rayquazas and gives you a drastically better shot at the game, even though it usually isn't too bad anyways. Wobbuffet is used to beat Muk EX, help even more vs Gardevoir, and fight off any random EX card ( Including Rayquazas ) When it is added, the deck simply adds Multi Energy which also appease Rayquazas needs. This also makes it so Rayquaza can OHKO a Muk with 3 energy instead of four which is HUGE in making sure that you can stay in it prize wise. Some Blaz Ray lists go 2-3 lightning and 1-2 multi anyways without Wobbs just because of the speed it may offer. This deck is not as dominant once set up as BAR, but is more consistant and the most techable of the varients.

    Blaziken Ninetales- Tales wins the mirror match basically every time, no questions asked. Its big hitters give up one prize, not two. That is HUGE to winning. BUT it is not without its disadvantages. One, it is weaker vs the big EX cards. It needs 6 energy to KO a Gardy EX or Amphy EX. It doesn't matter if you both get even starts, but if the Gardy gets a solid jump on you, it makes a big difference. I have seen this cost games as its hard to get the kills. This is ESPECIALLY huge vs Kingdra, where you need 6 energy per Kingdra and it is simply eating you alive. This version certainly CAN beat Water, dont get me wrong, and usually does, but of all the varients, it is the weakest vs it. It is also the weakest against Muk EX. These downfalls are easily made up for in its dominance of the mirror vs BAR and BR though.

    In closing I think its hard to say any varient is superior, they all have aspects which make them better. BAR has the best Water beating ability but is also probably the most fragile of the lists. Blaz Ray is the most consistant, and can be teched easily. Tales wins mirror but is weaker vs some of the decks that stand a chance vs Blaz in general. All three decks are really good. I know my venues are heavy with Blaz, but also alot of anti blaz water decks, a solid amounts of gardy, and some Muk EX. Its hard to choose what to play.
  9. Pidgeotto Trainer

    Pidgeotto Trainer New Member

    I was thinking...
    The main reason people play Niniken is that beats other the Blaziken mirror. Now that Blaziken ex is out, the mirror match almost entirely relies on him. You just keep koing any Quaza or Tales that looks threatening. So wouldn't this mean that Ninetales no longer really will have an advantage in mirror? The only reason I would still see to play Niniken is that Tales can't be Sharded. You would have to use Tales not just Blaziken ex in many matchups but maybe not this one since everything else is 100HP or less. Rayquaza still helps a lot more against Water and now doesn't have as much a disadvantage against Niniken.
  10. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    Yeah...I have to agree with Pidgeotto...with the mirror match relying solely on Blaziken EX now...Ninetales becomes obsolete really.
  11. psycodad

    psycodad New Member

    I think the speed of blaze tales will keep it playable and might even give it an edge in a mirror. Less cards are required to get up and running so it's faster. Plus with no ex's in the list so you only lose one prize for each knocked out poke. This is a big advantage. But if the opponent gets blaze ex set up, you lose.
  12. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    Psycodad- Blaz Tales is worse in the mirror is Blaz EX is used. Blaz EX wins mirror the second it hits play, the Rayquaza Ninetales prize factor is null and void at that point.
  13. TheAnswer3

    TheAnswer3 New Member

    I have to agree with fulop now. Before TMTA this was the best Blaze Variant, but NOW with BAR having Blaze EX blazetales has no chance, this was proved to me yesterday as Foisy beat dillons Blaze/Tales twice and i proceeded to Beat it BADLY twice. Its just to risky to run this with Blaziken EX running around in abundance.
  14. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    Yeah... pre AvM it was probably the best but now we have so much water as anti blaz, and blaz dominating what wins mirror...its worse.
  15. Cyrus

    Cyrus Iron Chef - Master Emeritus

    Niniken is the most formidable Blazi variant, IMO. Not too sure for the SC's, but it DEFINITELY was for the CC's. When I won my CC, I played an almost identical list, only with Elm's Method for a near-guaranteed turn two setup of Delcatty, Shamans for disruption, switches to kill what I want killed, and a fisherman ^^""

    Good deck! Exactly how it is/was played. Niniken/ex all the way! ;)
  16. GOROY

    GOROY New Member

    If Blaze-ex beats ninetails, then what about adding him with Ninetales?
  17. ~Blazi-King~

    ~Blazi-King~ Active Member

    Iv been thinking about changing my blaze variant to include ninetales and 1 ex for 9tales does offer more speed and the teched blaze ez can possibly counter some stuff :)
  18. Spectreon

    Spectreon New Member

    My thougts on Blaze EX/Ninekin are this.... I can easily see the 2 co-existing in the same deck, prolly having 1 Blaze EX in play, and 1-2 Ninetails... the idea is to alternate as needed, sending Blaze EX to devistate Bench, and Ninetails to devistate active slot.... this definitely beats Blaze variants that include Ampharos/A Manny, since Blaze EX can just take it out, and then alternate with Ninetails taking out the Benched Blazes and whatever is sent up.... Assuming you dont get a crap set up, this beats out most Blaze Variants, being able to KO bench Blazes and whatever to slow theirs down... note this works both way, speed it the key in mirrors....
  19. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    Ninetales is only better for ONE reason. It wins the mirror match against Blaziken Rayquaza. It had NO advantage other than that to being played. Now, the mirror match completely negates the existance of Rayquaza OR Ninetales, and it depends on whoever gets Blaz EX up first. Therefore, Ninetales ONLY advantage is completely null and void. Rayquaza fights water and muk better, run it, you'll be glad you did.
  20. Pidgeotto Trainer

    Pidgeotto Trainer New Member

    The only things I see Niniken better for still: Against Colorless/heavily Sharded decks and Wobbuffet. Blaziken swarms can be used but with Blaze ex weak to Psychic, Wobbuffet should be considered.
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