Pachirisu is overrated

Discussion in 'Feature Articles' started by Prime, Mar 2, 2008.

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  1. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Notice how I didn't use the ? symbol in the title, because I am not asking a question, I am making a statement. Pachirisu is overrated and really isn't that great of a card.

    I think we can all agree that the most sought after holo (non lv.X) from Great Encounters is Pachirisu, but I wonder why that is. What does Pachirisu bring to the table that has everyone clamoring for it? Let's break Pachirisu down.

    Pachirisu is a 70HP electric basic Pokemon. It has weakness +20 to fighting, -20 resistance to metal, and 1 retreat. Pachirisu has 2 attacks, Call for Family and Smash Short.

    Call for Family is nice, but what does it do after your bench is full?

    You only have a few options. You can choose to retreat and attack with something you have powered on the bench but do you really want Pachirisu on the bench? Magmortar can snipe it for the free prize (or spread damage onto it to KO it and something else at the same time), and GG can bring it down pretty easily with its HP being so low. Even if the opponent doesn't KO Pachirisu, you can't pick it back up off the bench (GG and Magmortar doesn't run Super Scoop Up), so it's taking up a spot on the bench that you might need for another Claydol or Gardevior, or whatever.

    In today's environment with decks filled with multiple lines, each bench space is precious. If you decide to just leave it active and let it get KO'd, you might be surprised when it doesn't get KO'd and you lose the game because your opponent sniped your bench to death and you gave them too much time to setup.

    So not only does Pachirisu's first attack become useless after the second turn, it also takes up a space on your bench if you do try to rush your opponent. If you leave it active, you are asking for problems too because it gives your opponent time to setup and gives your opponent plenty of chances of snipe your main attackers.

    What about Pachirisu's second attack?

    You're right, let's not forget about Smash Short.

    Smash Short does 10 damage to the defending Pokemon. If they have a Pokemon Tool attached, Pachirisu's attack does 30 more damage and that tool is discarded. You then look at your opponent's hand and discard any Pokemon Tools that share the same name as the tool Pachirisu discarded and discard them from the opponent's hand.

    Sounds great, right?


    Let me ask the crowd a question. For all you that went to a State Championship yesterday, how many times did you use Pachirisu's smash short and deal 40 damage and discard Pokemon-tools?

    I can't speak for the community, but I am going to guess that this didn't happen that much, if any at all.

    Why is that?

    Let's take a look at the format.

    The format is ruled by 2 decks, Gardy/Gallade(Furret/Absol/random tech) and Magmortar/Typhlosion/Delcatty(Claydol/Blaziken/random tech). What tools do these decks play? Does either of these decks play Buffer Pieces? Nope. Does either of these decks play Leftovers? Nope. Does either of these decks play any tools that stay around for more than the turn it is played on? Not a single one. The only tool I've seen played in either of these two decks is Strength Charm. The great thing about Strength Charm is that it goes away after the Pokemon it is attached to attacks, meaning that unless someone attaches a Pokemon-Tool to their active Pokemon and chooses to NOT attack with it, Strength Charm will not be around for when Pachirisu uses Smash Short.

    So you are telling me that Smash Short is not useful?

    I'd take it a step further. Pachirisu's Smash Short is virtually useless in today's environment. This only leads to supporting my view that Pachirisu isn't the best starter for decks and isn't that great of a card overall. Even though Great Encounters introduced 2 brand new tools, both being decent, to the format, none of the big decks are utilizing them at the moment, and thus Pachirisu's Smash Short rarely, if ever, does its added effect.

    Pachirisu isn't the best starter? That's blasphemy!

    Honestly, I feel it to be true. I think history shows this to be true, and I think our current collection of cards shows this to be true too.

    Let's take a time machine back to the days of RS-on (2003). There was a card named Dunsparce. It was released in EX: Sandstorm and everyone loved this card. It grabbed 3 basics from the deck and put them on the bench. This was THE starter for almost every deck during this period, and that lasted for quite a while, until EX: Hidden Legends came out.

    When EX: Hidden Legends came out, there was a card in the set named Jirachi. Jirachi allowed you to search your deck for an evolution to a Pokemon on your bench and evolve it that same turn. Then Jirachi would put 10 damage on itself. People instantly starting using this card with Dunsparce. They would grab Jirachi and 2 basics, then retreat and use Jirachi next turn to evolve their basics.

    Dunsparce was later rotated out, and Jirachi was still around in HL-on. Jirachi stayed pretty popular, and was played with Pidgeot in a lot of decks. Another Jirachi was released in EX: Deoxys, and it become very popular too. You could use it to grab you another card from the top 5 cards of your deck each turn, but it would then go to sleep. A combination of Jirachis was played with Pidgeot until Pidgeot and the HL Jirachi were rotated out the year after.

    DX Jirachi stayed popular the entire format of DX-on. Even though there was also a card like Dunsparce in the format (Plusle), DX Jirachi was usually the starter for many decks.

    But why?

    I think the answer lies in the trainers. What trainers were around when Dunsparce was so popular? What trainers could actually get basics from your deck? In EX: Ruby and Sapphire, there was just 1 trainer that could grab a basic from your deck, and it was at a flip of a coin (Pokeball). In EX: Sandstorm, there a Supporter that grabbed 3 different kinds of basic Pokemon from your deck. Not the best idea since there were many one color decks like Gardevior that was popular. In EX: Dragons, there were no trainers that could grab basics from your deck. In EX: Team Aqua vs. Team Magma, Dual Ball was introduced, but was also flippy, so it wasn't the best alternative. Not until EX: Fire Red and Leaf Green did we actually see 2 trainers that could grab any basic from your deck (Great Ball) and any Pokemon (other than ex) from your deck (Celio's Network).

    Grabbing basic Pokemon was really hard in RS-on, and that is why Dunsparce was all the rage. When FRLG came out, and more sets came out, more trainers were released that made Dunsparce not as needed, and by the time DX-on came around, decks didn't even need a new Dunsparce because there was already many ways to grab basics now.

    That was years ago...what about now?

    You'd be surprised how similar the format is now to how it was around DX-on. Decks now have MANY ways to grab basics from the deck. Here is a list of all the trainers/supporters that can grab basics from the deck and are legal right now:
    • ·Celio's Network (Crystal Guardians - Trainer - 73)
    • ·Dual Ball (Crystal Guardians - Trainer - 78)
    • ·Dusk Ball (Mysterious Treasures - Trainer - 110)
    • ·Great Ball (Power Keepers - Trainer - 77)
    • ·Holon Mentor (Dragon Frontiers - Trainer - 75)
    • ·Master Ball (Power Keepers - Trainer - 78)
    • ·Poke Ball (Crystal Guardians - Trainer - 82)
    • ·Pokemon Fan Club (OP Series 4 - Trainer - 9)
    • ·Quick Ball (Mysterious Treasures - Trainer - 114)
    • ·Bebe’s Search (Secret Wonders – Trainer – 119)
    • ·Roseanne’s Research (Secret Wonders – Trainer – 125)
    My gosh, look at all those choices! Someone explain to me why we need Pachirisu.

    The answer: We don’t.

    Decks were able to get away with grabbing basics without a starter in DX-on, and decks can get away with grabbing basics now. Before Great Encounters was released, decks got a long pretty well. The only deck that actually used a starter that could grab basics was Magmortar, and that used Corsola. I feel Corsola had the same problems Pachirisu has, and I think one of the main reasons behind its use was the tactic to let it get KO’d and then Scramble a Magmortar to spread damage or hit for big damage. But that can be accomplished with any starter, and wouldn’t the opponent try to KO a constant help starter like Stantler more than trying to counter a starter like Corsola that becomes useless on turn 3? I think so.

    Okay, give me a better starter!

    Here is a list of basic Pokemon that I feel are better than Pachisiru and will continue to help past turn 2:
    • ·Chingling (Mysterious Treasures – Psychic – 42)
    • ·Girafarig (Mysterious Treasures – Colorless – 49)
    • ·Lapras (Great Encounters – Water – 21)
    • ·Mawile (Crystal Guardians – Metal – 9)
    • ·Stantler (Secret Wonders – Colorless – 113)
    These cards can grab you trainers and supporters from your deck, and will usually be more useful than Pachirisu in the long run. There is not a big difference between using Pachirisu to grab 3 basics and using Stantler to grab Roseanne’s Research and using that the turn after to grab 2 basics (or any combination of basic pokemon and basic energy cards). Sure, sometimes you need the basic that turn, but the days of fast rush decks is coming to an end, and the opponent will usually not be able to OHKO your active pokemon on T2 or T3.

    Wrap it up please…

    Okay. In conclusion, Pachirisu isn’t needed, and really isn’t that useful as a starter. It is great at grabbing basics, but there are many trainers in the format that can do the same thing. Pachirisu’s second attack is nifty, but just doesn’t do anything in today’s metagame. The past shows that a lack of trainers that can grab basics is the main reason Dunsparce was so useful, and that with the release of more trainers that could do the same job, Dunsparce-like starters were cast to the side and not used that much in favor for starters that could get your extra cards that would help you setup the multiple lines of Pokemon you are running. That same logic should be applied to today’s format. We have plenty of ways to grab basics from the deck, and there really isn’t a big need for Pachirisu to be played in so many decks. Even if you do need to grab basics, there are still alternatives like Corsola that works in certain decks.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2008
  2. master of puppets

    master of puppets New Member

    i like starting with pachirisu because it can get all of my important basics out ready to go.
    now i know mentor and others can do that too, but that costs me a supporter that i would rather use on a celio so i can get claydol out 2nd turn for sure.
    and i can use mentor first turn, so that puts me a whole turn behind right there.

    pachi active also gaurds my basics that i plan on using from taking damage, so that they will be fresh when i bring them up. i like that a lot.

    and after i fill my bench i just attack with its second attack. 10 doesnt do much, but its alright for a bit until im finished seting up.
    and its bonus is still good for that "2nd backing" kinda thing.

    very well written.
     
  3. Jason

    Jason New Member

    Do I smell power abuse in the last paragraph..... *sniff* *sniff*

    That was a very well written article and I have agreed with you on many points.

    Chingling starter is awesome and can be combo'd with Chimecho to draw cards after T2 - but weakness is bad when Ralts is popular.

    Mawile CG, Stantler SW, Lapras GE are soooo goood

    Girafarig and Budew are alright but not powerful.

    Spinda SW is a nice drawing addict and can do a nice 40damage to those with same energy as Spinda...but most of the time it can be a really nice mirror match tech but I dont think it will see much play eh?

    Dunsparce MT is well... just draw a card and can run away. Bad.

    Furret...GODLY. Pokedex like move for a C atk and then evolve to search for any 2 cards...Still a sweet starter.....

    But the best thing I want the most is Phione MD.
     
  4. Pinsir52

    Pinsir52 New Member

    In gallade, we really only have 4 basics (not counting techs), and the starter. To get every basic in from my deck to my bench on T1 is nothing short of amazing. Also, I can't play mentor/roseanne on T1. Like master of puppets said, i'd rather call for family, then use a celio instead next turn. Also, is ANY STARTER EVER useful after the 2nd or 3rd turn?
     
  5. Flaming_Spinach

    Flaming_Spinach Feature Editor

    Awesome.

    Could some mod send this to the front page (if you, Prime, have no objections)?
     
  6. Pidgeotto Trainer

    Pidgeotto Trainer New Member

    The only 2 cards that should be considered are Pachirasu and Stantler. Stantler is slower more consistant. Pachirasu is faster. Getting t2 Delcatty, Claydol etc. is huge for speed. I've played Stantler a lot, and it really isn't better a lot of the time. By turn 3, you don't need more supporters usually. If Dunsparce wasn't a holo, then Pachi shouldn't either, it's bad for the game.
     
  7. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Pachirisu in GG is really funny IMHO. The deck only has a few basics. If you start with a Pachirisu, you can grab 3 ralts and put them on your bench T1. T2, what do you grab? 1 more ralts? That's not that useful.

    Pachirisu doesn't help setup other than grab basic pokemon. If your hand is rubbish, your setup won't be any better with ralts all over the field. Stantler/Lapras help this tremendously (more with the later) since it can grab the supporter you need every turn, and with Lapras, it can grab a basic energy (always useful) and a poke-tool (not always as useful).
     
  8. Rainbowgym

    Rainbowgym Active Member

    Prime -
    You seem to forget 2 things.
    In a format were a lot of Absols are played you DON'T want to play a starter who grabs you a TRAINER.
    Actually you prefer to have Pokemon/Energy in hand to "prevent" not loosing 2 cards.

    And in any Fire deck, Pachirisu is very nice when you meet a Water Pokemon, it's second attack deals most times 30-40 damage to lightning weak Pokemon (like Gatr/Togekiss). It's not always about the Tool discard like you are suggesting.
     
  9. homeofmew

    homeofmew Active Member

    Pachi is over rated, when you can play Roseanne's and even a Corsola alternative.
    Dunsparce = best starter ever.
     
  10. Chromecatz

    Chromecatz New Member

    Eh, smash short came pretty useful to me. I had to use it to get dmg on totodile's/crocs/ferals plenty of times in my 3 matches vs gatr.( i had mortar)
     
  11. Crosplat

    Crosplat New Member

    Furret is still good after the second or third turn in GG.
     
  12. Rai

    Rai <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=

    Furret's got nice HP for a stage 1 (90 is above average, which is 80), and can find any two cards you want every turn. This is useful early game to get your evolutions. Useful the next turn to get your DRE and Warp Point. Perhaps useful another turn to get more cards out.

    Starters can be useful after turn 3, yes. Pachirisu isn't one of them. It's a one shot wonder, which petters out really fast, especially if you are relying on top decking to find your evolutions for you.

    Now, as for why Corsola in Magmortar did so well during cities. Absol was amazingly popular in Cities. Corsola bypassed the hand, playing basics where Absol can't touch them (as opposed to finding the supporter and putting it in your hand like Stantler). How popular is Absol now? Is placing cards directly on the field as important now that discard isn't considered so dangerous?

    I also agree with Pachirisu not being absolutely amazing because of other cards doing it's job (Great ball *cough*). Phione and Furret on the other hand have no similar counterparts. Unique abilities is not an advantage Pachirisu can boast of having, besides the situational Smash Short. No smart opponent would play tools against an early Pachirisu, and late game Pachirisu has a tendency to be one shotted.

    However, the statement about Corsola working in certain decks doesn't really fly that well, in my opinion. Decks that use more then one type *cough*Hurricane*cough* receive more of a benefit from Pachirisu, since it costs the same amount of energy, finds the same number of pokemon, but has a second attack to actually deal damage after turn 1, unlike Corsola whom tries to fit into Magmortar, then realizes it isn't EVER able to place so much as one damage counter. There's no reason to play Corsola, other then being unable to pull Pachirisu out of packs. Heck, weakness isn't even a factor, since no popular decks play fighting OR grass basics.
     
  13. vanderbilt_grad

    vanderbilt_grad New Member

    I agree 100%. People talked about Claydol making Absol less useful but Patchi was a big step in that direction too.

    And for the record I used Smash shot to get rid of an attached cess and one in hand once this weekend.
     
  14. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    You probably have more States experience than I do, but I thought that Claydol was the "nail in the coffin" for Absol? I didn't think people still played Absol in GG anymore. I see your reasoning for why Pachirisu might be better, but again, Pachirisu is useless T3, while you can always hope the opponent doesn't discard the supporter you got with Stantler every turn.

    So, some people actually used Smash Short's effect this weekend? Interesting...
     
  15. ZAKtheGeek

    ZAKtheGeek New Member

    Great stuff! Couple holes though.

    That would just never happen. Even if you decide that you want to try and let it get KO'd, obviously you would retreat if your opponent just took their time setting up, and certainly if they started sniping. You're not locked into your initial plan.

    But, to some extent, this could be sort of a "self-fulfilling prophecy." If you knew Pachi was going to see a lot of play, would you dare run a Tool that needed to stick? It's unlikely.

    But, really now, practically any starter effect exists in a trainer. The problem is, will you have that trainer early game? Plus, those trainers are usually supporters, so you have to budget your usage of them.

    In general, your conclusions are probably correct, I'm just saying that in some places I think you're oversimplifying in your own favor.
     
  16. KAZUTO!!!

    KAZUTO!!! New Member

    Yes. A Stantler can be used until it dies. Trust me, in my G&G at Provincials, I could send it up mid-game to get me a Ceilio's I could use to get out a Gallade or Gardevoir, Candy a Ralts into whatever I got, boom. I get my Gallade or Gardevoir up all because I sacrificed one Prize card mid-game, which I'll probally win back soon. Girafarig can grab a Candy, Ceilio for the Gallade/Gardevoir, Candy to Ralts, boom. Similar situations. They may get a Prize, but you may be one step closer to winning.

    I do, in fact, agree 100% with Prime. I do think Pachi is overated, and after the second turn it is useless. It stopped Cess. Crystal. Tools aren't really run in decks nowadays, in fear of Pachi. It is really ONLY good in Fire TRUK, and Corsola can replace it.

    Very well written, Prime. You changed my point of view on how good Pachi is completely - from a 10/10 to a 6 or 7/10:thumb:
     
  17. Rashad

    Rashad New Member

    i love pachirisu cause now i can use my roseannes to get out energies and use smash to soften up my opponenets pokemon
     
  18. Rainbowgym

    Rainbowgym Active Member


    I played 1 32K tournament and 1 SPT last 2 weekends and Pachirisu was a great help.
    I went 4-1 and 5-1 (winning the SPT) with 2 different Magmortar builds and Pachirisu helped a lot.
    I agree late game it's a dead card most times, but you can put in on the bottom of your deck with Claydol to draw new cards.
    Also don't underestimate deck who are using Cessation Crystal. We had a very nice Banette/Absol deck running those along with ER2 and Wager, you would cry for a Pachi when you run into that.

    But there is another side of Absol, if played with Gardevoir you might have a good chance to discard a supporter you can use with Gardevoir, so I expect it will not disappear.

    Claydol is a kind of "nail in the coffin" for Absol, in a way it can let you draw cards after you lost some.
    But precious Supporters/Trainers will not get back when they are in the discard.
    So the Nail is in the effect you can add more Pokemon into your deck, pull them out with Claydol and evolve manual.
    I don't say this is the most effective way, but it will cause less frustration if you know you don't need that precious Candy/Celio/Roseanna.

    And example of a game today.
    Me going second with Pachi active, opponent Absol.
    My Roseanna and something else got discarded. I had 1 Claydol in hand and a Celio + energy.
    Play Celio for another Claydol, nrg to Pachi and get 1 Baltoy and 2 other basics.
    That way I could kind of secure I would keep at least one Claydol and use the power.

    Again this is not a 100% safe strategie, but more to explain why Pachi can help much more than any trainers getting basics.
     
  19. Zezeta

    Zezeta New Member

    Great article Prime. I do think Pachi is overrated but it is still a great starter. The fact is though is that it won't change anything in the format but it will help some decks be a little more competitive.

    One thing I do like about this format is that there seems to be a good variety of starters. Starters like Pachi and Stantler can be used in almost any deck but some times its better to use a starter better suited to your deck (like Lapras in water decks).
     
  20. Rainbowgym

    Rainbowgym Active Member

    And something else, maybe Pachi looks overrated, but I think most people (like me) expected Phione to be in this set.
    The combination Pachi/Phione is very dangerous.
    So if you made a deck based on those 2 cards, it's possible to adjust it and leave the Pachi in and find another way to get the bigger Pokemon out.
     
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