Pokémon: Kecleon with Crystal Shard

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by BJJ763, Nov 23, 2003.

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  1. BJJ763

    BJJ763 Trading Mod Supervisor Staff Member Trader Feedback Mod

    Just because everyone is asking about the new Ditto ;)

    If i have a Kecleon with several basic Energy cards attached to it and i attach a Crystal Shard to it, does it's Type change back to Colorless or does it's Power override the Tool? Would it be 100% Colorless or would one of it's Types become Colorless (and you would get to choose which Type now is Colorless?)?
     
  2. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    :: De-mods BJJ:: :p
     
  3. NoPoke

    NoPoke Active Member

    I'm reasonably confident with the tool vs BODY problem... I'd say that the controller of the cards choses which has precedence. This would be the same as the old Wotc ruling for resolution of simultaneous effects from stadium cards and pokemon powers.

    The kecleon issue is very interesting. The recent rulling suggests that Kecleon has many types when several different basic energies are attached and not a single (composite) type. Shard is worded using the singlular form type so presumably only one of Kecleons many types is changed back to colourless? Personally I don't like this idea and much prefer Kecleon to have a single type rather than being able to have many different types associated with it. Unfortunately the current rulling dissagrees with my view. :(

    So at the moment it is possible to make a strong case for Kecleon with a Crystal Shard and :fire: and :lightning basic energy cards as being able to behave as a :fire: and :colorless pokemon or a :lightning and :colorless pokemon when resolving weakness and resistance. (Also as a :fire: and :lightning type by ignoring the Shard)

    Personally I'd prefer Kecleon to have a single type in which case it is either :colorless or coloured depending upon the owners choice of precedence of the Tool vs the BODY.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2003
  4. jdb728

    jdb728 New Member

    Hmmm, I seem to recall posting this question here http://pokegym.net/showthread.php?t=2811 , I hate when Mods steal the credit for stuff like this, J/K :p
    anyway, I would say it becomes fully colorless, but I, much like tons of other people, would like to get this, and the Promo Smeargle questions answered by PUSA.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2003
  5. RainbowRichards

    RainbowRichards Active Member

    Well, we never did get an answer to my Ask the Masters post (here) which raised the question whether Kecleon can be multiple types simultaneously. Here it is again:

     
  6. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    We brought it up. We'll remind him about it.
     
  7. BJJ763

    BJJ763 Trading Mod Supervisor Staff Member Trader Feedback Mod

    Hasn't the multiple Types been indirectly answered by the Gardeviour ex vs Kecleon with G & P energy cards doing 4 X damage to Gardeviour ex?
     
  8. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Yes, but this was brought up in opposition to that.

    I will note that the answer for the 4X damage from double weakness came from Japan.
     
  9. RainbowRichards

    RainbowRichards Active Member

    I'd say it's been directly answered there and elsewhere in the forums (I think it even made it to the Compendium), but I had discovered (after the fact) what may be an oversight or a mis-translated element of the Japanese card, that's all. If I'm right, it might be cause for an amended ruling.
     
  10. NoPoke

    NoPoke Active Member

    To get the double double weakness Kecleon need have either two seperate types or a single composite type. Personally I prefer Kecleon to have a single type but even then thats not how I think of the issues associated with calculating weakness and resistance.....

    My check for weakness is: 'Is the attacking Pokémon xxx type?' Kecleon's BODY ensures that whenever that question is asked if the appropriate basic energy is attached then the answer will be yes. Crystal Shard returns the answer 'I'm a colorless Pokémon'.

    The attacker gets to decide if the BODY or Tool takes precedence.


    [back to Quantum Mechanics... Kecleon's composite type isn't so dissimilar from the superpositions that exist in Quantum mechanics... Live and Dead cats spring readily to mind. Its only when you ask the question if the cat is alive or not that the cats state gets determined. ;) Of course Kecleon manages to remain in its superposed state even after it has been examined. That is something which the physicists are currently trying very hard to duplicate :D ]
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2003
  11. Porygon3

    Porygon3 New Member

    ummm.... If you attach crystal shard to that pokemon the universe will spin out of control and an alternate demention will be opened...
     
  12. jdb728

    jdb728 New Member

    Like 2 Ditto's facing eachother?
     
  13. GuardianTIM

    GuardianTIM New Member

    or 2 of the Neo Discovery Wobuffets.
     
  14. Jeremy Badeaux

    Jeremy Badeaux New Member

    This question was apparently not answered at the rules meeting, would anybody happen to know if Jimmer is consulting Japan on this or something?
     
  15. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    It has been deferred until next week.

    In the meantime, I would go with the ruling on Tyranitar's Dark Aura:

    Q. Which overrides Charizard's "Burning Energy" Poke-Power, or Tyranitar's "Dark Aura" Poke-Body?
    A. The Poke-Body Power [continuous] will override the "Burning Energy" Poke-Power [activated]. (Sep 26, 2002 WotC Chat, Q519)

    Kekleon's continuous PokeBody will over ride the activated effect from Smeargle's Paint attack.
     
  16. jdb728

    jdb728 New Member

    But isn't the PokeBody just as "activated"(Since it doesn't work unless you have Basic Energy Cards attached, right?) as the Smeargle's Paint Attack?
     

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