Preliminary Grades and Voter Input (Division 1)

[Cyrus]

Directions on how to differentiate Voter Input over other comments:

-Read carefully through each deck.
-Title your post as "Voter Input."
-Tell me which deck right off the bat deserved the win.
-In a few sentences, tell me why that deck deserved the win, and the other deck didn't.. Remember, this is a 1 v. 1 format, meaning that you aren't choosing the best of four, but the best of two...twice.
-Use some grade at the bottom of your post to rationalize your decision - preferably the system I've been using this whole contest.

~~~Acuting VS Blazi-King~~~

Acutin

Pokémon: 21
3 Eevee MD1
2 Leafeon MD1
2 Leafeon LV.X
2 Baltoy GE
2 Claydol GE
1 Azelf L.55 LA
1 Uxie L.55 LA
4 Cherubi L7 DP
4 Cherrim SF

Energies: 16
4 Call Energy
12 Grass Energy

Trainers: 23
4 Roseanne's Research
4 Bebe's Search
4 Cynthia's Feelings
4 Pokéball
2 Premier Ball
2 Warp Point
2 Night Maintenance
1 Time-Space Distortion

Get into play as many Cherrims as you can ! Use Leafeon's lv x Verdant Dance to do 30 + 10 for each energy on the field + 10 for each cherrim in play.

Hope you like it,
Agustin


~Blazi-King~

No entry, as of 11/5/08. (will receive at least a -3, or a -6 in two hours)

My take on this match:

Acutin has a very standard, but solid entry.

-His list is extraordinarily good. It has everything you'd want: a logical structure, a very heavy amount of search, some pretty good -albeit unfocused-draw choices, and heavy damage.

9/10

-His creativity isn't as amazing, It's pretty standard, and even a bit of a weird choice.

2/5

-His card use isn't outstanding either. It may seem like there isn't a lot to do with Cherrim, but there actually is. Acutin only took medium-level steps to get there.

3/5

TOTAL: 14/20


Blazi-king has no entry, and even if he gets one in in the next two hours, he'll be down by three points.

TOTAL: ???


Therefore, I declare Acutin the preliminary winner.


~~~Burninating Torchic and MadHatter~~~

Burninating Torchic

Pokemon: 24
4 Cherubi DP
4 Cherrim SF
4 Caterpie GE
3 Metapod GE
4 Butterfree GE
2 Baltoy GE
2 Claydol GE
1 Unown Q MD

Trainers: 23
4 Roseanne's Research
4 Bebe's Search
3 Rare Candy
3 Buck's Training
3 Pluspower
2 Dawn Stadium
2 Warp Point
2 Night Maintenance

Energy: 13
9 Grass
4 Call

Strategy:

The first thing that comes to mind as a combo for Cherrim is a Grass or Fire Pokemon that does an increasable amount of damage - Magmortar, Leafeon, Kricketune, etc. Unfortunately, with such Pokemon, it's hard to get set up enough to be doing a sizable amount of damage - for most of the game, you'll be lucky to do 100, and even that isn't going to happen much earlier than turn 4 or 5. And these Pokemon aren't exactly Wailord ex, either - a good number of them are quite frail.

Butterfree is a partner for Cherrim that doesn't suffer from either of these flaws. While it's true that it's never going to be doing enough to knock out that aforementioned Wailord ex in one shot, it sets up way faster than some of the more damage addition-oriented candidates. If you're incredibly lucky, you can get a Leafeon LvX out turn 2 through the use of Evoluter. Most of the time, you'll be lucky to get it out turn 3. Thanks to Caterpie and Metapod's powers, you can get Butterfree out and attacking turn 1, and when you don't, it's likely that you'll have it turn 2.

The other thing Butterfree does that the others can't is heal itself. Sure, Magmortar heals for 20 when you attach to it, but that's nothing compared to what Butterfree can do. Butterfree's Parallel Drain heals it for damage equal to what you do to the Defending - and Cherrim increases how much damage you do to the Defending. That's what makes Butterfree such a good combo for Cherrim. Now, barring that annoying little fairy that's running rampant in the current format, there's only a small handful of cards that can deal 120 damage a shot. If they're hoping to two-hit KO you, Parallel Gain will ensure that Butterfree is a very hard Pokemon to KO.

It's also of note that Butterfree can heal a benched Pokemon if you'd like - so if Butterfree isn't in any danger of dying, you can heal something that got sniped or took damage early game.

Butterfree's second attack isn't too bad either. If you're not in danger of dying (or if you're in so much danger that you need to try incapacitating your opponent's Pokemon), you can use Dozing Scales for a good chunk of damage and a status condition. Dozing Scales not only has more damage potential than Parallel Drain, but it inflicts a Special Condition no matter what; either Poison or Sleep.

Cherrim can, of course, be a good attacker as well - if you don't have the opportunity to attach energy or need to use your attaches to power something up, it can do some damage and healing for free. Then, of course, there's Solarbeam, which can do a good amount of damage if you've got enough Cherrims/pluspowers. There isn't much that can be done to take advantage of its attacks more than I am - the fact that healing is a secondary focus of this deck (and therefore Cherrim's first attack is viable) is more than a lot of Cherrim decks can say. It's main role is of course its body, but its still a very key component of the deck - Butterfree just wouldn't be powerful enough without it.

Now for some of the other card choices. Claydol is obvious, as always. I decided to go with Unown Q over Chatot MD in the case that you start with a Cherubi or Baltoy, then draw into or Roseanne for Caterpie. By attaching Unown Q to Cherubi or Baltoy, you don't have to waste your first turn energy attach, so you can bring up Caterpie and attempt to get turn 1 Butterfree.

Buck's and Pluspower are fairly obvious; like Cherrim, they increase your damage output. 3 Metapod and 3 Rare Candy is for consistancy; plus, if you're using Metapod, you can use those Candies to surprise your opponent with a Cherrim or Claydol from nowhere. Dawn Stadium is in there to get rid of special conditions and to add to Butterfree's healing potential.

I wanted to add one more Pluspower, but unfortunately I couldn't find space. I originally considered playing 2 Cynthia's and a 10th grass energy, but decided that Pluspower was more important. I believe 9 grass is adequate (especially considering the fact that butterfree has a viable attack for a single grass), and while Cynthia's can be useful, it doesn't really fit well with the whole "Butterfree doesn't die easily" theme. Pluspower, on the other hand, reinforces that theme.

So yeah, there's that. Hopefully you think Butterfree was as creative of a choice as I did.

MadHatter

Iron Chef Top 32: Cherrim StormFront
Pokemon: 20
4 Cherubi DP
4 Cherrim SF
2 Uxie LA
2 Unown E MT
4 Celebi MT
2 Ponyta DP
2 Rapidash DP

Trainers: 26
4 Pokeradar
4 Roseanne's Research
3 Professor Oak's Visit
3 Buck’s Training
2 Warp Point
4 Bebe's Search
2 Night Maintenance
3 PlusPower

Energy: 14
3 Call
11 Grass


Now at first glance, one could think, “What in the world is this?” Well, This is Cherry Cola. The strategy is to start with Celebi and use its Sprouting attack to get your energy in play fast. Next turn you use Celebi’s Leaf Tornado and move the energy to your Cherubi. By turn three you should be attacking with Cherrim using SolarBeam(or Salty-sweet Pollen if you missed the energy drop on turn 2).

Card Choices:
•Unown E (MT): It was between Unown E and Unown Q. I felt that Unown E was better suited for the deck since it could help with Cherrim’s average HP.

•Rapidash (DP): After looking at all of the fire Pokemon that took colorless energy, Rapidash, in my opinion, was the best choice to accompany Cherrim. Now how exactly does Rapidash combo with Cherrim? Well, Rapidash’s Overrun attack damages the opponent’s bench; which will help you get easier knock outs later in the game.

Pokemon I didn’t choose:
•Houndoom (LA): For someone doing this challenge, they will of most likely looked at Houndoom as a card to play with Cherrim. However, you aren’t going to have a low bench count as you will be trying to get as many Cherrim’s out as possible.

•Infernape (MD): Infernape is a decent choice, but I wanted to keep Cherrim as the main attacker. Also, I didn’t feel that the list would have been as consistent had I put a Stage 2 in the deck.

•Sunflora (SW): Sunflora would seem like a logical choice to pair with Cherrim. Nonetheless, healing 10 damage is not as useful as it used to bed since most Pokemon that will be main attackers can 2-hit KO your Pokemon, whether you heal or not.

Consistency; is there any?
In testing with this, consistency is not an issue. With twelve cards that can grab you Pokemon; six draw cards, and the accompaniment of Uxie (LA) you shouldn’t have any delay in getting set up.

Compensating for low damage:
Cherrim and Rapidash don’t deal out a lot of damage normally. In spite of that, with Cherrim’s Poke-Body and six cards that add to your damage(3 Pluspower and 3 Buck’s Training) there isn’t problem in beefing up your damage capabilities.

I thank you for reading this and hope this gave a bit more insight on Cherrim as an attacker, and not just an accompaniment card.

Thank You,
MadHatter

Burninating Torchic has an overall intriguing entry:

-The list is pretty solid. While there isn't much in terms of consistency crutching, there's plenty of draw, search, and logical line structures. Three Rare candy is a bit loopy, but not so much due to the Caterpie and metapod. PokeRadar also isn't as good as it could be, seeing as how there are only 20 Pokemon in here. 8/10.

-The deck's concept is pretty creative. I feel that the concept of "do damage and heal" is kind of obvious, and nothing too wild or exciting is going on here. However, it is solid, and I commend you for this. 4/5.

-All in all, the card use here is solid. He has made a nice Cherrim deck, gave Cherrim a good partner, and has plenty of damage-adding cards to help both. 4/5.

TOTAL: 16/20


As MadHatter says, his entry is more surprising and risky, but how does that stack up?

-The list is good. I see a lack of confidence in you running three call as opposed to four, and I don't see much value in the Poke-Radars (as I mentioned in BT's entry). Consistency was very nice, however. 8/10.

-The concept is creative, albeit a little loopy in its foundation.

-I really don't buy the Celebi with these guys, but I do buy the Rapidash. I see Cherrim suffering considerably vs any wall deck, but Rapidash seems to help well with that. Normally, ten damage means nothing, but the nature of this deck is swarm! And part of swarming is wearing down the opponent...So, I buy it. The Unown E's also contribute to this. Not to mention the Buck's and Plusses. 4/5.

TOTAL: 15/20


My preliminary verdict is to award this to Burninating Torchic by an ever-so-slight margin. I feel that his build is more cohesive, and his strategy is more appropriate.

 

[Rainbowgym]

Voter Input.

BT vs Madhatter

Madhatter deserves to win, because his list is focused on every aspect of Cherrim even trying to make it's second attack working.
Creative a 4 iso a 3.
BT list is NOT focused on Cherrim, but on Butterfree. It's not abuse/use every aspect of Cherrim as much as Madhatter's list.
Creative a 3 at the most, but if I look back at older gradings it could be even a 2 because the deck is to much Butterfree concentrated.

Personal I don't find the list of BT very creative (and also Acutin's list isn't)
And I do not compare those 2 lists but I only looked at why a certain grading was given, I would say the 2 points for the Creative part of the contest fits both of them.

End of Voter Input
-----------------------------

Note: Looks to me that Cherrim is designed to be a "helper" and not an attacker, which makes it very difficult to build a deck around Cherrim.
Unless I understood the concept wrong, but this contest was about using the "challenge card" as main focus/attacker. So in case of a Pokemon using all attacks/body/power over using it as a partner?

 

[Jason]

Vote Input:

Agustin
Very good consistency
Great card use
So-so creavity since Leafeon is used in many decks.

9-4-2
Total: 15



Blazi-King
N/a



================



Burninating torchic
Great consistency
Amazing card usage
Decent creativity.

9-3-3
Total: 15



Madhatter
Really creative and great usage of consistency and card.

8-3-4
Total - 15

Even tho both of them are tied, I would say that Burninating Torchic get the win as it is really good - all around. Sorry Josh.

 

[Diaz]

BT vs Madhatter.

I would give BT the edge overall. I just would feel so much more confident waalking into an event with his deck than Hatters. Butterfree was a nice choice.

Good job to both of you though!

 

[Ky00ber the III]

Voter Input

I feel BT should win. No write-up here, tired.

However, Madhatter's 3 call/4 radar looks abit weird. Furthermore, a few multis or fire would have been nice. Since Cherrim only require a grass. Finding a few fires after the initial sprouting should not be hard. I would say that the latter is inconsequential but the former is part of my thoughts that give BT that slight edge. Both decks were from masterful builders and it was very interesting to see the decks

Mad propz for Madhatter's creativity.

 

[Brady1]

Voter Input:
BT vs. MH
I don't see where the pokeradar are in BT's list. I don't see why his list should get deducted for something that isn't there. Also for those naysayers, BT definately used cherrim as good as MH used it. Reason: 1) BT's deck revolves around healing. BT used cherrim's body far more effectively than MT did, in that the deck heals more as more cherrims enter play. 2) Although not mentioned, since butterfree is a much better attacker than cherrim, butterfree acts like a wall because of it's healing ablility and 120 hp, giving BT's list more time to get up cherrims without feeling the "rush" of the opponets deck. 3) This added time also gives BT's list MORE time to drop energy in play and to keep those energy in play, giving the deck time to power up a few cherrims to actually attack. 4) Cherrim's first attack invovles healing, thus giving the option to use it and to heal a damaged butterfree (Though only in desperate times).
As for the lists, both look to be consistant, though MT's looks more creative in the useage of cards. Overall, I feel BT actually should've gotten a higher score then he did....and I feel that I have too much free time on my hands.

 

[Hatter™]

^Its MH not MT lol >.>

 

[Burninating_Torchic]

Oh my god I love all of you who support me <3. I was really afraid going into this round, to be honest, because I know how good Hatter is at making rogue decks.

I'm glad other people like the Butterfree idea. It's such an overlooked card in my opinion; I think it actually could've seen some decent play when it first came out if not for the dominating presence of Magmortar. It was the original t1 Stage 2 Pokemon, before all of this insane Unown R/Uxie draw stuff appeared to make t1 stage 2s viable. I dunno, I like it. Fun little card made even more fun by Cherrim.

Also, yeah, like Brady1 said, there's no PokeRadar in my list. Judging by the fact that you said PokeRadar isn't good because of the 20 Pokemon - and my list plays 24 - I think you probably meant for that comment to go in the MadHatter section.
So yeah, there's that.

 

[Cyrus]

I agree that it's unfair to judge BT on something that clearly is not in his list - that's a mistake on my part.

This'll be factored in my final verdict.


On a side note, it seems like most people lean toward this being a close match ending in BT's favor.

Do we have any more dissenters? I'm leaning towards ending discussion in the next day for this.

 

[Hatter™]

just give it to BT.
If there is every another one of these, ill post the more obvious combo instead of going rogue.

gg

 

[Cyrus]

Very well. By forfeiture of Madhatter, BT wins the 2000 Presidential Election.