Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

RULES UPDATE: Game two tie breaker changed. +3 Clarified

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I look forward to accessing the prof boards, I've sent polite requests the last two weeks to be added to the access list. I am sure there is much busyness at Pokemon as we enter the holiday shopping season, plus recovering from Battle Roads, dealing with Prereleases, and preparing for Cities, so I will show patience.

In the meantime, is there anything, respecting confidentiality, that profs and prof judges are free to share here. I would like to have the benefit of your collected wisdom going into my next round of local judging, and I am sure players would benefit from your additional input.

Thanks, and cheers.

I can share what I have seen during my BR.
1/3 of the games went to SD.

And while fast decks already had a benefit over set up/strategy decks, this only increased by this new rule.

Again I only(head) judged under this new rule, however I did play several BR the weeks before.
While using a set-up deck in Matchplay (best of 3) 45 minutes.
I dediced after seeing how the last BR went I can trash my deck, while it did fine before.
In gameplay a set up deck will still work, no doubt about it. But if you manage to get into tops and face the more used "fast" decks changes are small you will manage to win even after you won the first game.
 
We have some discussion going about this on the professor forum but I feel that some more input could really help.

Ness, Magnechu, Cyrus, if people like you could write a bit about your feelings about this, why you think this is good / bad.
The simple fact that this thread isnt exploding is pretty sad IMO, this is a huge change and, no mater how you feel about this, post your opinion, tell more people about this. Like I said, this is a HUGE change and I feel like it deserves some discussion. So please, post your opinion, dont let this slip through unnoticed :/
 
Cause that would mean if you win game 1 barely in tiem and your opponent can get the first price in game 2 (which is nothing more then a dice roll) you go to sudden death, and to be honest, this doesnt make sence.
The significant game thing was perfect!
 
And that is why the rule should be rephrased from:

"When 4 or more prize cards are taken..."

to

"When 2 or less prize cards are left..."

Kinda like the "More then 7 cards" vs "8 or more cards" thing, its all in the wording.
 
Why not just say whoever has the least amount of prizes on the field when time is called?

Because you still have +3 when time is called to resolve (unless the game is over).

Likewise, in a true SD, 1 prize game, the rule states that the winner is the one that takes their last prize. This means DPL can add prizes and the game continues for much longer than it should. A tourney could be hijacked bc the win condition is taking the prize (plural now, if DPL gets in play). The DPL player cannot win on prize count, they must also take their prize card also. Imagine a match where both players play DPL, they both get it out in a 1 prize SD game....oh boy!

Keith
 
Because you still have +3 when time is called to resolve (unless the game is over).

Likewise, in a true SD, 1 prize game, the rule states that the winner is the one that takes their last prize. This means DPL can add prizes and the game continues for much longer than it should. A tourney could be hijacked bc the win condition is taking the prize (plural now, if DPL gets in play). The DPL player cannot win on prize count, they must also take their prize card also. Imagine a match where both players play DPL, they both get it out in a 1 prize SD game....oh boy!

Keith

Ok then after the +3. And so what if they both get it out. Just as simple to change the sudden death rule to whoever takes the first prize.
 
Its the gameplay issue, whoever takes the first price wins is something that a lot of people disagree iwth from a gameplay perspective, the old rule that stated a game only counts if more then 50% of prices are taken was better (at least thats what I think)
 
I for one am completely against this really, really bad rule change. I might write more about it when I get the time, but this seems like a huge step backwards. :(
 
If this is true it is the single-largest mistake in the history of POP/PLAY. Few of you seem to fathom the unfairness of removing the 4-prize rule. This means if you now win a very long Game 1, Game 2 can be called in the first few turns, meaning your opponent can take Game 2 in as little as three turns. Then, for Game 3? Sudden death again. Yeah, you can 6-0 someone Game 1, only to lose Games 2 & 3 by your opponent drawing a total of two prize cards: one per game.

Absolutely devastating. Do not underestimate this rule change. I will hope something got mixed up and this isn't the case.
I'm 100% with Jason on this one.
This rule is absolutely awful.

Think about why we have best 2 out of 3. It's so that the match outcome isn't decided by a single game.
We all know that two decks can perform very differently and still win. Some decks innately have a very strong ability to pull out the first prize really early, while other decks could be extremely good at winning a normal 30+3 round, but have little to no chance at getting the first prize.

We all know that getting the first prize and winning the game are hardly correlated in some matchups, and so a game that is decided on the first prize should be completely illegitimate.

What this ruling says is the following:
If Player A is playing Player B in the top cut of a tournament, and Player B's deck can't get an early prize
easily, Player A will no longer play to win game 1. He will play to make game 1 last as long as possible. When time is called at the beginning of game 2, Player A automatically wins games 2 AND 3. This is beyond outrageous.

It was bad enough that game 3 gets decided in this manner. Not game 2 as well. That invalidates 2 out of the "best 2 of 3 matches".


I don't think this matters that much. I have had no game 1's go longer than 40 min.
You will have game 1's that go longer than 40 minutes if this ruling is for real. Your opponent will make sure of it.


Because the current metagame is how it is, I am convinced that this is singularly the most harmful procedural ruling that has ever been made in the history of the game.


If this ruling really is staying, consider the following advice if you are on the losing end of this ruling:

Firstly, make sure you win Game 1. This is a given. The problem with this new ruling is the fact that you can be screwed irrevocably EVEN IF you do win Game 1.
Secondly, win Game 1 at the right time. If you're deep into game 1, play to your opponent's pace. If your opponent is playing quickly and trying to leave time for game 2, play quickly, so that you don't get shut out by a short game 2.
On the flipside, if your opponent is slow playing you, slow play him back! What he doesn't want is for game 1 to end on time, because then he doesn't even get his game 2 with which to rob you of the match.

The most important thing is that you want a full game 2 or no game 2 at all, to mitigate the chance that this ruling can hurt you.


Of course, even if you get a full game 1 and game 2, but have little time for game 3, you still lose unless you win both of the first games. It's worth mentioning that if you are the deck with the slower curve, you WILL lose, unless you can do one of the following: (a) Win both games 1 and 2. (b) Make game 1 take the entire 60 minutes.
This is the same as it was before this ruling. The difference is, before this ruling, option (b) would have read: "Make game 1 take long enough that game 2 doesn't count by the 4 prize rule."
 
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Agreed with many of the others. The 3 turn extension I believe was a great move to lessen the effect of time. But this move does the exact opposite. Having 3 more turns will not stop the fact that an SP/speed deck will win a match if they can get game 1 to last 50 min (or whatever leaves 10 min left), win or lose. They'll easily be ahead in game 2 and strike first in game 3 for victory.
 
This change is legitimately atrocious. I'm sorry for not voicing my opinion on this sooner, but sadly I don't have the time now to post a full blown rant by what Ness said is pretty much spot on. I think this is an abomination of a rules change. The time "issue" has been getting progressively better and better and now this, if it stays in effect, would undo all of that progress. Really, really dumb. Literally impossible for me to say anything positive about this.
 
We don't know why this ruling change was made, but speculation is so that Palkia & Dialga Legend can be considered a winner of Game 2 by simply being ahead in prizes. (6 original remaining vs. opponent having say 10 or more)

But if this ruling change was made for a specific Pokemon, a side effect is it absolutely prevents a Lost World-based deck from being able to win Game 2. Assuming the card will be printed, a Lost World deck can win a single match by putting six pokemon in the Lost Zone and playing the stadium, without ever taking a prize. There wouldn't be enough time in Game 2 to be able to do that, so the opponent wins by taking a single prize.

(Before someone says "Lost World isn't out yet" and shouldn't be considered, someone at P!P ought to be considering it, because it's silly to alter tournament rulings every set, right?)
 
Im still saying they should've made it "Game 2 counts if either of the player has 2 or less prizes remaining". Keep in mind that against Lost World decks, with that ruling you could scoop in time, then pull game 2 to you. Lost World decks will NOT win game 3 if its a sudden death.
 
A pure Lost World deck can't win an incomplete game two either as it never actually takes a prize. so I can't see how it is lost world related.

A pure deck-out deck can never win an incomplete game two, but it couldn't before this change either.

A pure DPL Time Control deck can win an incomplete game two under the new rules even though its prize count will stay stuck at the original six. A pure DPL Time Control deck will have a very hard time in Sudden Death as the win condition remains to take all prizes, bench the opponent or deck them.
 
If this is true it is the single-largest mistake in the history of POP/PLAY. Few of you seem to fathom the unfairness of removing the 4-prize rule. This means if you now win a very long Game 1, Game 2 can be called in the first few turns, meaning your opponent can take Game 2 in as little as three turns. Then, for Game 3? Sudden death again. Yeah, you can 6-0 someone Game 1, only to lose Games 2 & 3 by your opponent drawing a total of two prize cards: one per game.

Absolutely devastating. Do not underestimate this rule change. I will hope something got mixed up and this isn't the case.

I completely agree with this, it's the worst move I've seen POP make since I started playing.

If anyone from POP is reading this, please change it back.

---------- Post added 11/09/2010 at 01:48 PM ----------

I don't think this matters that much. I have had no game 1's go longer than 40 min.

I've played against alot of people, and playing against top players, single games always go on for about 40-45 minutes. I don't mean this to say that they stall out games, but they take a long time thinking about every desicion and play a game perfectly. I think this rule will especially have a bad impact at the Worlds top cuts.
 
The more I play with this, the more I like Scipio's idea of an incomplete game 2 counting only if one player has two or fewer prizes remaining.

That is easy to determine by looking at the game state, does not require ANYONE to keep track of extra DPL prizes, and keeps the spirit of the rule alive.

Oh, and DPL can take one prize if that is what it needs to do in a one prize scenario. Quite easily if it is gearing to just get the one prize at all costs. Twists the way you play the deck, but is still effective.

Vince
 
I haven't read the whole thread, but I assume I'm with the majority in believing that this rule change was poorly conceived.

What I'd like to know is, "Why change things?"
 
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