Rulings contradiction

Discussion in 'Ask the Rules Team' started by Glumanda, Feb 28, 2004.

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  1. Glumanda

    Glumanda Rulings Compendium Translator

    The actual ruling for Jagged Stone looks like this:

    == JAGGED STONE (Claw Fossil - EX:Sandstorm)
    Q. Considering the wording of Pelipper's "Swallow" attack, does the damage on Pelipper get removed BEFORE or AFTER Claw Fossil's "Jagged Stone" Poke-Body damages Pelipper? Jagged Stone places 1 damage counter on Pelipper as a result of Pelipper's attack, then the text of Swallow says to remove damage counters AFTER the attack (implying that the attack has been completely resolved).
    A. The language used for Swallow is over-specific. The process at the end of the attack: Do damage; next, do the rest of the Attacking Pokemon's effects; lastly, do any of the Defending Pokemon's effects. So in this case, Pelipper's Swallow removes damage counters FIRST (if any), and then Claw Fossil's "Jagged Stone" kicks in afterward. (Oct 30, 2003 PUI Rules Team)

    Now consider a pokemon is attacking Giovanni´s Machamp (Poke-Power Fortitude) with 10 HP left using an attack saying "The defending pokemon is now confused. 10". After the ruling above (process at the end of the attack) this would resolve as follows.

    Do damage: Machamp gets 10 damage.
    Do the rest of the attacking Pokemon´s effects: Machamp is confused.
    Do any of the defending Pokemon´s effects: Machamp is confused and cannot flip for Fortitude.

    But the old compendium says:
    Q. If a fully powered Crobat attacks a Giovanni's Machamp and 2 coins are heads [Ed.Note: thus confusing the G's Machamp], and the attack did sufficient damage to knock out Giovanni's Machamp... Giovanni's Machamp is still allowed to flip for Fortitude, right? (If instead of Crobat, a Magby attacks and Giovanni's Machamp has 10 HP left, the above still holds true also, correct?)
    A. Yes you would. This is the same exact issue as if you were using an attack that did damage and paralyzed against a Dark Gyarados. Damage is placed first, then if that triggers anything (in this case the Fortitude), that is checked BEFORE any other effect from the attack is done. (Nov 15, 2001 WotC Chat, Q117)

    Now which way is correct? Does this new rule overrule the old? Or is there a special ruling in the case of KOing a pokemon?
  2. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    We've brought up similar issues for consideration.
    We will add this scenario to the group toward reviewing the ruling.
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