Something that's always been a part of this game: Rant

Discussion in 'TCG News & Gossip Discussion' started by Rikko145, Jun 24, 2011.

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  1. Rikko145

    Rikko145 New Member

    I find that this is often one of the most critical parts of the game. Obviously I'm a huge anti-netdecker. I've never netdecked anybody in my life and never plan to. I've asked many people for advice and ratings, but never for a list or a piece of a list. Last season I played nothing but DialgaChomp, as well as the last half the previous season. So, you'd assume the locals who play me over and over would expect DialgaChomp every time they see me. Eventually, yes. But it took them over an entire season to learn what to expect.

    99% of us can make a mental list right now of people who we don't want knowing what we're playing. Personally, I don't want anybody to know what I'm playing. These tips will be helpful in detering, confusing, bewildering, and eventually probably defeating that person in a tournament. Now, say you tell one person you trust. Well, that person trusts another person or two. Those people each trust another person or two. And eventually, it's a public secret.

    There are two types of surprise. There's ultimate surprise, which is ideal, and plain vanilla surprise. Vanilla surprise is good, but not always a game-swinger. Ultimate surprise is when your opponent has no idea what you could possibly be playing, is unprepared, and is overtaken because they don't know how to react. Plain vanilla surprise is a card or combo they don't expect. An unexpected disruption card or a tech that doesn't see as much play as it should does nicely.

    Many times I've been asked what I'm playing for a tournament, which I actually find a tad rude.

    By no means you should play rogue instead of meta or vise versa. Like I said, I played DialgaChomp for a season and a half. Meta is fine. If a deck works for you, it works. Meta or rogue, doesn't matter.

    Meta is okay, but netdecking is not. Besides, netdecking means others already know what that list is and how to react to it. I've tried to write several articles about decks I like but wasn't going to play, and tey got rejected because I refused to put in a decklist. I was told to "Give them a list to start with." *Caution! Metaphor Ahead!* In other words, "Sacrifice a limb to the carrion-eating vultures we know as netdeckers."

    Be nice. Don't come off as rude or standoffish.

    May you always have friends that care, and fortune to spare.

    ~Rikko145
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2011
  2. Donchamp

    Donchamp New Member

    I hate these kinds of threads.

    What's wrong with asking someone what they are playing? Or sharing deck ideas? This is Pokemon, not the Chinese Mafia. There is a reason they say, the pokemon trading card game has one of the best community of any other.

    To be honest, whatever your playing, someone is probably playing it too. Or playing a counter against it. Like I said this is Pokemon, you don't have to act like a jerk to someone who just wants to try and be your friend by starting a friendly conversation based on a common interest and a love of the Pokemon TCG.
    Posted with Mobile style...
     
  3. Scizor

    Scizor New Member

    I bet you don't even know when or where your beloved Dialga was first played.
     
  4. z-man

    z-man New Member

    Sigh. I gotta agree with Donchamp. A friend of mine is considered one of the best rogue players in the world. Jimmy B. has done very well on a very large scale as a result of playing rogue decks. Even so, he is very open about them. If somebody asks (and that player is respectable), he'll always answer truthfully. He plays his rogue builds openly at league and will (infact) challenge newcomers to see how they compare to his builds. Secrecy is not very necessary when building rogue. Surprise, is though. Running around the tournament wearing a t-shirt saying "I am playing <rogue deck>" while yelling through a microphone about how awesome your rogue deck isn't a very good idea. Surprise does not win games. Odd gameplay does. As a player, if I come across a deck that I've never played before, I'll have no idea how to setup against it whether or not I've heard of it. Look at the worlds of 2009. Stallgon was a very strong rogue deck in that tournament, but by round 2, everybody knew it was there. Even so, it still did very well because it was so strong. Peoples' knowledge of the deck didn't help any when trying to beat it. Basically, having something that no one has tested against is good enough surprise to give the rogue player a high-ground. Knowledge about the deck doesn't help any. They will figure it out the moment the game starts anyways... there aren't that many "rogue strategies"... just "rogue combinations". Being sneaky may be fun (I changed hats every round of Nats 2010 :D), but it won't help any.

    Now then, I'd like to respond to your stab at net decking. Net decking is perfectly viable. It is great to play against established builds while testing. If you net deck and then don't test your build and bring it to a tournament, you probably aren't going to win. I wouldn't advise bringing someone else's deck to a tournament, unless you have played it a lot. Unless you are really bad at building decks, you should probably try to change the other person's deck. If you are bad, learn how to deckbuild on the side when there aren't prizes at-stake. Eventually, make sure you have learned from the pros and are able to build a comparable deck. I use other peoples' lists to test against: nothing more. My final builds that I play at tournaments are often very close to other peoples' builds simply because we have similar tastes in cards.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2011
  5. baby mario

    baby mario Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg

    Some of the advice is hilariously paranoid

    Some of it is downright bad

    Playing against good players IRL will benefit you far more than random redshark games with strangers. In fact, it will increase your chances of winning more than doing any of the silly things in this article will.
     
  6. Happiny13

    Happiny13 New Member

    I don't care if I have what I believe to be an unbeatable deck. I will still test it with my friends.
     
  7. Swordfish1989

    Swordfish1989 New Member

    I think the whole secrecy thing is not only highly overrated, but not necessarily helpful to the game. Why are you so paranoid about people knowing what's in your deck? Don't you think the people you played against will tell EVERYONE, especially if you're doing well? I've had friends who started going say, 4-0 in a big tournament, and by round 6, everyone knew what his deck was, what his techs were, etc. So by keeping people from seeing your decklist or watching your match, you may slow down the dissemination of information about your deck - but it will still happen.

    I like systems like MTG the best... where they actually film/record 'featured matches' between top players, and decklists do get posted online. It has nothing to do with whether you're selfish or not if that's what you're thinking, but it's more about the health of the game. Clearly other TCGs who publicize the top player's decklists is still healthy and with vibrant competition. In fact, I think it helps spur innovation even more since players will be trying to think of counters for your counter, and think out of the box even more.
     
  8. slayer_chaos

    slayer_chaos New Member

    tl;dr everyone knows exactly what you're playing as soon as the first round starts in any tournament that's smaller than a regionals. And not net decking is just unnecessarily handicapping yourself.
     
  9. Rikko145

    Rikko145 New Member

    Donchamp - I never said to act like a jerk. I said be secretive. If you portray in your mind that somebody who keeps to himself is a jerk, then you can think that way. In fact, I try to make at least two people smile every day. I'll just strike up a random conversation with people and be friendly. It's just something I like to do. Make 2 smiles every day, in a year you made 730 peoples' days better. Never said there was anything wrong with sharing ideas. I'm saying don't tell them you're building it. There are tens of thousands of ideas out there, but only a few hundred are ever even build, let alone played. Just because you discuss an idea doesn't mean you'll build it. And who'd know if you did any/most of this? Attitude is everything. Don't be mean. Be friendly and casual.

    Scizor - You're darn right I don't. There is no inventor of an obvious idea. Tell me who invented MewGar, LostGar, LuxChomp, and 95% of tank decks. :lol:

    ---------- Post added 06/24/2011 at 11:38 PM ----------

    Z-man - Different strokes for different folks. Btw, props for the hats!

    ---------- Post added 06/24/2011 at 11:40 PM ----------

    Happiny13 - Awesome. It's good to have friends. I just play fun decks with friends, just for kicks.
     
  10. Donchamp

    Donchamp New Member

    Which is why you bag on net-decks, and ignore others or reply with rude retorts when they ask about the deck your playing...
    Mmk. Try again.
    Posted with Mobile style...
     
  11. Rikko145

    Rikko145 New Member

    baby_mario - You can have your opinions. It's the exact same, except your opponent can't cheat and you don't have to leave home. Seems to me that makes it better. I'm focusing on the deck, not who I'm playing. And I like to play people who do the same.

    ---------- Post added 06/24/2011 at 11:46 PM ----------

    I think you missed the boat a little bit.
    A.) No rude retorts.
    B.) I ignore people that I don't want to talk to anyways. That way I can just stay cool and relaxed instead of bickering with them.
    C.) Netdecking for a tournament is just laziness.

    So you, sir, seem to be the one who needs to try again.

    ---------- Post added 06/24/2011 at 11:48 PM ----------

    No, they probly won't. People usually don't like to talk about their losses, and if they win and I lose, nobody pays any attention to the loser. Either way, it's a win-win.

    ---------- Post added 06/24/2011 at 11:54 PM ----------

    I'm sorry, but I just had to quote that second part.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2011
  12. Amt

    Amt New Member

    What exactly is considered "net-decking?"

    Is it when a player copies a deck, card for card?

    I highly doubt people copy every single card. At a CC, I faced a nice guy playing FlyChamp. I asked him where he got the idea and said he saw an article (mine!) on PokeGym about it and liked the idea. Well, his list was not card for card. Is it bad that he saw an idea he liked and "copied" it?
     
  13. baby mario

    baby mario Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg

    I can? Well thanks.

    It's not the same at all. I don't know how you can think that.

    If I know who I'm playing, I know how valid my testing is. Testing with randoms can easily give you a distorted idea of how well your deck is doing.

    Testing with good players and sharing ideas will increase your chances of winning massively. Anyone with any sense will tell you that.

    Basically, it comes down to common sense. Don't go around telling people what you will be playing and don't post your decklist until you've finished playing it. Do that and you'll have enough 'secrecy' without coming off as a paranoid jerk.

    Or, you could fool them all with a cunning plan to dress up as a Zekrom when you're actually playing Magneboar . . . .
     
  14. misnos

    misnos New Member

    I think you all got trolled...

    Most elaborate troll article ever?

    I don't see this as being a real article, no one can be this paranoid. Also, how can you show up to a tournament with only have tested random people on Redshark? That is the give away right there! No matter who you are or what you are playing you need to test real people, with real decks.

    If I am wrong about this being a troll article then I am very sorry for the OP, no one should live in fear especially in a game that should be a stress relief not a chore or something to have a panic attack about.
     
  15. Donchamp

    Donchamp New Member

    A. If someone totally ignored me when I tried to break the ice. I would consider that rude
    B. And if someone retorted stupidly with "Pokemon!" OR "magneboar! Huh derp!" And then find out your playing blastgatr. i would be like wtf...
    C. Just because you like a deck styl and just so happenes to be a net-deck doesn't make them lazy.

    Try again.
    Posted with Mobile style...
     
  16. vaporeon

    vaporeon Moderator

    Before every round, I always ask my opponent what they are playing and if they tell me, I tell them what I'm playing. Most of they time they lie and I get a little upset about it beause they just lost a friend they could have made. I mean, I'm going to find out anyway so I ask.

    I don't agree with a lot of what you said but I can agree with some of it. My Articuno, Zapdos and Moltres ex deck was leaked during a tournament because of my sleeves and word got around to all the Medicham ex players that I was running a tech Deoxys D ex tech. Was the only one running Articuno, Zapdos and Moltres sleeves. I even heard a player tell his friend that I was the guy running the tech.
     
  17. Water Pokemon Master

    Water Pokemon Master <a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p

    14.) Slit round one opponent's throat after the match so they don't tell everyone else what you're playing.
     
  18. Rikko145

    Rikko145 New Member

    If your original list is one you copied off the internet, you just netdecked. No. I thought I made that pretty clear. Sharing ideas = Good. Sharing Decklists = Bad. Sharing information that your opponent will find helpful before the match = Bad.

    ---------- Post added 06/25/2011 at 12:50 AM ----------

    Now, how do you know that's the caliber of player you'll face at the tournament? You don't. The tournament is random (within your record restrictions), as is playing people online. I also like to find the better players and play them over a time or two.
     
  19. pkmn202

    pkmn202 New Member

    I don't think I can fit in a sleeve anyway.
     
  20. Rikko145

    Rikko145 New Member

    I topped at Nationals that way last year. Played my actual DChomp list at league for about a month and half, mainly because only a few of our league-goers attended Nationals. Other than that it was online and with two or three people. (I was prepared for their decks if I happened to play them, mind you.)

    See, Vaporeon? That's why when you get something unique, you keep it a secret. :lol: But I'm sure you discovered that.
     
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