"The Inside Scoop" Deck Discussion #1 = "LuxChomp" - Why is it SO good?

Discussion in 'Guru Deck Challenge & Strategy Topic Discussions' started by Rogue Archetype, Jan 17, 2011.

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  1. Rogue Archetype

    Rogue Archetype Moderator <br> Contest Host

    If you follow the decks that have performed very well for a long time (including CCs, NATS, Worlds, and BRs), you'll find LuxChomp top cutting and/or winning EVERYWHERE around the world.

    What is the "LuxChomp" deck?

    How does this deck work and WHY is it doing so well ?

    Let's talk about it.

    Here are your links to the featured cards:
    "LuxChomp" features the following 2 main cards: Garchomp C LvX and Luxray GL LvX

    Tip: If you're going to discuss "techs", please try to define what a "tech" is for our new readers. Thanks!

    A great article about the deck can be found here: LuxChomp article by prodigal_fanboy

    Let's give our visitors the "INSIDE SCOOP" on this extremely successful tournament winning deck!

    Note: Anyone, old and new, may contribute to this discussion. Ask questions or answer them! This is how we build :smile:
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2011
  2. LegendaryLugia

    LegendaryLugia New Member

    Courtesy of butlerforhire:

  3. Blitzer

    Blitzer New Member

    Luxray GL/Garchomp C has been a dominating deck since cities last year. The deck has been successful mostly because of the two letters on the side of the card, SP. SP have a large engine to draw upon including, Power Spray, Energy Gain, SP Radar, Poke turn, and Cyrus's Conspiracy. With the combination of these cards, Luxray and Garchomp can easily snag extremely cheap kills. With Luxray and Poke Turn, you can reuse Bright Look many times, enough to take enough prizes with Flash Impact or Trash Bolt to set up for winning the game. Garchomp C is a sniper, meaning it can constantly deal out 80 damage to any pokemon on the field. Although, once again, Poke Turn is key to perform constant snipes. After each Dragon Rush, you must send Chomp to the bench, and the Turn up the SP active, and then send Chomp up again, attach, and snipe. Rinse and Repeat against the mirror.

    Other pokemon LuxChomp has to use are Bronzong G, a pokemon that can maneuver the energies on the field, Crobat G, a pokemon that allows you to place damage counters on your opponents pokemon to set up for easy kills (also can be abused by Poke Turn), Ambipom G and Dragonite FB, both amazing SP and Garchomp C counters, also helpful against a variety of low energy decks (in the case of Ambipom G).

    And many more, all in all, the more finer part of Luxray Garchomps power is that it has no real disgustingly bad matchups that cannot be played around.

    LuxChomp vs Gyarados,
    55-45 in Favor of LuxChomp

    LuxChomp vs VileGar
    50-50 in Favor of None

    LuxChomp vs Machamp
    45-55 in Favor of Machamp

    LuxChomo vs DialgaChomp
    60-40 in Favor of LuxChomp

    LuxChomp vs Regigigas
    40-60 in Favor of Regigigas

    LuxChomp vs Palkia Lock
    70-30 in Favor of LuxChomp

    LuxChomp vs Sablelock
    60-40 in Favor of LuxChomp

    I hope this analysis helped.
  4. chriscobi634

    chriscobi634 New Member

    a lot of it's success is due to the fact that's it's a pretty easy deck to use compared to other decks. I'm not saying it's the easiest but how hard is it really do detect your opponents main attacker? The main thing it does is once it sees energy it will target that so that it leave it's opponents without a way to hit it back. If it does get hit back it has Poke-turn or Healing Breath.
  5. Rogue Archetype

    Rogue Archetype Moderator <br> Contest Host

    Devil's Advocate Questions for you guys:

    Question #1 = The don't really do ALOT of damage with their attacks! How do they knock anything out ?

    Question #2 = They don't have much HP, so how come big Stage 2 Pokemon don't dominate them?
  6. Bleak

    Bleak New Member

    The biggest thing I've noticed (being a big fan of Stage 2, and never using SP) is speed. Stage 2's can get set up quick with BTS, Spiritomb, rare candy, etc. but it still inevitably takes more time, and LuxChomp is able to put damage on them from turn 1.
  7. LegendaryLugia

    LegendaryLugia New Member

    Q1: Because their attacks can target anything on the board. Meaning they can 1-shot almost all support pokemon and undeveloped pokemon (like a Gloom or a Machoke).

    Q2: Because the LuxChomp player disrupts their start by picking off the Stage 2 before it gets a chance to develop, Spray Uxie drops, they have efficient recovery in Aaron's and Premier Ball and the fact that they can be fully charged up with a single L energy and a gain or a DCE and a gain.
  8. Blitzer

    Blitzer New Member

    Replies in Red


    CFOURCOLTSFAN Active Member

    Also IMO the biggest benefit of LuxChomp is that it is by far the easiest deck to just tech for your metagame-
    Heavy SP Area?- Dragonite FB
    Heavy Vilegar?- DGX, 2nd Lux X, Uxie X, Lucario GL or Drifblim FB
    Heavy Fire?- Quagsire GL

    I mean you can tech in almost anything for this deck and that is why it is so good(note those are just examples not all possibilites covered)
  10. LegendaryLugia

    LegendaryLugia New Member

    ^ Maybe it's just me, but you should be running Uxie X anyway.

    And Lucario GL doesn't really help with Vilegar, it's more for Gyarados.

    CFOURCOLTSFAN Active Member

    true, but some people(that i've seen) will opt for a 3-0 uxie line instead of 2-1, i always play uxie x in mine.
    also lucario=good for vilegar if you play drifblim fb as well,
  12. Rogue Archetype

    Rogue Archetype Moderator <br> Contest Host

    Devil's Advocate Questions for you guys: - part 2 :p

    Question #3 = How do you start your first few turns? How do you set it up?

    Question #4 = How do you get past a bad first hand? (i.e. bad start)

    Question #5 = What IS considered to be a "Good Start"?

    Question #6 = What is considered to be a "bad start"?
  13. Blitzer

    Blitzer New Member

    Replies in red once again.
  14. DoomScizor

    DoomScizor New Member

    Not to spam up the board. But this is truly an awesome thing you have going on Rogue, Keep it up. Theres lots of useful info new and some older players need to know about the best decks in format
  15. RB Golbat

    RB Golbat New Member

    Through playing this deck, I've found that there are a few things that make it really great.

    1) It runs off the SP Engine

    The SP Engine is easily the strongest engine currently in the game. Consisting of the cards Cyrus's Conspiracy, Energy Gain, Poke Turn, Power Spray, SP Radar, and Aaron's Collection, it has the ability to both accelerate how fast it can get things done, and at crippling the opponent. Let's look at each Card Individually:

    Cyrus's Conspiracy: This card is the backbone of the Trainer Line. Being able to search for a Supporter allows you to pick up another Cyrus's Conspiracy, or even a Bebe's Search or Aaron's Collection if you can tell that you'll need one of them next turn. The ability to search for basic energy means that you don't need to run 6-8 basic energy to be sure to have enough to attack, but instead allowing people to get away with 3-5, even allowing for 1 of a specific type of energy that is used by only one Pokemon. Being able to search for Team Galactic's Invention is amazing as well, because there are five of them, all of which have carried uses, making Cyrus's Conspiracy a very versatile card.

    Team Galactic's Invention G-101 Energy Gain - Say Hello to the first of the SP Tools. With many SP Pokemon having a :colorless: energy requirement for their attacks, it isn't a surprise that this card is used. This card allows you to speed up how fast you can attack, since it allows you to use a two energy attack out of thin air very frequently.

    Team Galactic's Invention G-103 Power Spray - Basically Pokemon's version of Yu-Gi-Oh's Trap Cards. If you've played Pokemon for just a bit, you'll know how useful PokePowers are. For example Uxie's Set Up, Azelf's Time Walk, Crobat G's Flash Bite, Regice's Regi Move ect.. these are the back backbone's of deck's strategy and engines, enabling them to snag cards that they want to get, or enable them to get that kill this turn to keep up with the prize race. Denying your opponent the ability to use PokePowers frankly is just amazing, especially since playing against SP, people have to think about playing around Power Spray's, and trying to account for them, making their life just that much more difficult.

    Team Galactic's Invention G-105 Poké Turn - This card wins games. Period. Have a heavily damaged SP Pokemon? Need to reuse a one-time Power such as Bright Look, Flash Bite, Galactic Switch, or Healing Breath? Want to use Garchomp C Lv X's Dragon Rush two turns in a row? Need to get an Energy Gain from one Pokemon to another? This card has so many uses that it's just adds to the insane flexibility of the SP Engine.

    Team Galactic's Invention G-109 SP Radar - AKA Bebe's for SP Pokemon in Trainer form. Everyone knows how good Bebe's is, and being able to use a trainer version of it to search for most Pokemon in your deck, while still being able to use a supporter during your turn greatly adds to your early game speed, or getting that late game Pokemon you need.

    Aaron's Collection - The last card of the SP engine, as it should be. Your late game recovery card, it allows you to recover any key energy or SP Pokemon, which gives you even more reason to not run that many energy in your deck.

    2) It sets up fast, and hits fast and hard.

    Look at the cost for the SP Pokemon's attack. Luxray GL Lv X's Flash Impact is :lightning::colorless:. Garchomp C Lv X's Dragon rush is :colorless::colorless::colorless:. Both of these can be activated in 1-2 turns, with acceleration from Cyrus's Conspiracy getting basic energy and Energy Gains. Being able to to hit for 60 or 80 turn 2 is just amazing. Oh. Did I forget to mention that Luxray GL Lv X's Bright Look basically let's you choose which Pokemon you hit for 60? Did I also forgot to mention that Garchomp C Lv X's Dragon Rush can hit any Pokemon you want? Check how much HP most Basic (that evolve) and Stage 1 Pokemon have. None have more than 100 HP, which means that Garchomp C Lv X needs just one Crobat G drop to finish the kill, and Luxray GL Lv X can use that Crobat G drop to kill Uxie or Azelf with it's Flash Impact. Luxray GL and Garchomp C are all about hitting your opponent's weak Pokemon before they get to their final form, or their low HP benched Pokemon. I've played games where the opponent' got their main attacker set up, and I've won by sniping around it to pick up all my prizes without touching their active Pokemon. Which is exactly what the point of this deck is, to take whatever cheap prizes you can get.

    3) There is a lot of room to tech to both your metagame and playstyle.

    Most LuxChomp lists have the same core, much like any other major archetype, but the difference here is that the "core" of cards needed to make the deck is smaller than most other decks. Here is what I've found to be the standard core that I've used every time,

    2 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=45484"]Luxray GL[/URL]
    2 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=45505"]Luxray GL Lv X[/URL]
    3 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=48224"]Garchomp C[/URL]
    1 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=48290"]Garchomp C Lv X[/URL]
    1 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/forums/view.php?pg=towercard&imageid=42277"]Crobat G[/URL]
    1 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=42271"]Bronzong G[/URL]
    1 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=35737"]Azelf[/URL] 
    2 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/forums/view.php?pg=towercard&imageid=35717"]Uxie[/URL]
    1 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/forums/view.php?pg=towercard&imageid=35735"]Uxie Lv X[/URL]
    4 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=42336"]Cyrus's Conspiracy[/URL]
    2 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=45479"]Bebe's Search[/URL]
    2 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=49768"]Pokemon Collector[/URL]
    1 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=45579"]Aaron's Collection[/URL]
    3 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/forums/view.php?pg=towercard&imageid=42348"]Team Galactic's Invention G-101 Energy Gain[/URL]
    2 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=42349"]Team Galactic's Invention G-103 Power Spray[/URL]
    4 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=42350"]Team Galactic's Invention G-105 Poké Turn[/URL]
    2 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=45538"]Team Galactic's Invention G-109 SP Radar[/URL]
    1 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/forums/view.php?pg=towercard&imageid=41102"]Premier Ball[/URL]
    1 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/forums/view.php?pg=towercard&imageid=41097"]Luxury Ball[/URL]
    1 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/forums/view.php?pg=towercard&imageid=48295"]VS Seeker[/URL]
    2 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/forums/view.php?pg=towercard&imageid=49814"]Lightning Energy[/URL]
    4 x [URL="http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=49791"]Double Colorless Energy[/URL]
    That's a 43 card Skeleton right there. That leaves 17 cards to play with. That's more than enough to add tech's to help both boost your consistency and counter your metagame. Here are a bunch (postnote: apparently every tech i've ever used lol) of the cards that aren't listed on my skeleton that have helped.

    Call Energy - This card saves you from subpar setups. If you go first with just an SP Pokemon and a Call Energy, you can summon 2 more SP Pokemon to the bench to threaten a T1 Power Spray to hinder your opponent's setup. Or more simply, it allows you to get Pokemon to the bench. Chances are, you won't be attacking Turn 1, so this card gives you something to do, and helps you get Pokemon to your field, without having to use other cards to search for them.

    Smeargle - With how often you use PokeTurn, this card (combined with Unown Q) gives you the ability to use an opponent's Supporter whenever active. This adds to the speed and consistency in your deck, and it is one of the cards that I love and will probably never take out of my deck.

    Dragonite FB or Ambipom G - Both of these cards are in here because most people view them as a one or the other tech. Dragonite FB makes your SP match up so much easier, because most SP Basic's have 80 HP, and it still knocks out Garchomp C when leveled up as well. Ambipom G's primary purpose is to revenge kill a Garchomp, but I've used Tail Code to stall a needed turn or two before, either to get that one card I needed, or to prevent my opponent from attacking after time was called. And let's not mention the donk factor it allows if you get lucky.

    Junk Arm - While in Top Cut during the last weekend of Cities, I heard another player say "SP Decks have no room for Junk Arm because they have to have such tight lists." While that might be true for DialgaChomp, Luxchomp has many extra tech spaces. This helps make Junk Arm more usable in two ways. Firstly, (and obviously) you have room for it in your deck. Secondly, with many tech cards being used only for a matchup against a few decks, some cards are frankly going to be dead in your hand, such as a Dragonite FB against a Gyarados deck. Those extra tech cards that aren't being used are perfect discard fodder for Junk Arm, which allows you to get something useful, counting as that 5th Poke Turn, or that emergency Energy Gain you need to win the game.

    Lucario GL - While common sense would dictate that a deck with an electric Pokemon as a main attacker should walk all over a deck with a water Pokemon as the main attacker, that is sadly not always the case. With out Lucario GL, you are doing either 90 with Flash Impact or 100 with Trash Bolt to a Gyarados, while they will likely be able to OHKO you with a 3 Magikarp in discard + Expert Belted Tail Revenge for 110. With Lucario GL on the field, you are able to do 120 or 140 to the same Gyarados, by turning it's +30 weakness to a x2 Weakness, which your Luxray loves. It also allows you to kill a Machamp SF with a Flash Bite + Uxie Lv X Zen Blade, assuming no Expert Belt (which usually will be the case anyways).

    Promo Toxicroak G + :psychic: - Another one of your mirror techs. After a ko, Toxicroak is able to revenge kill a Luxray GL Lv X with it's Poison Revenge. All it takes is a :psychic: + an energy gain or another energy. I've never had problems pulling this out to hit an opposing Pokemon when it is needed. Also, if you happen to be chain Dragon Rushing (via retreating and PokeTurning, and lots of DCE), you can use Toxicroak's Leap Away as a 50% chance to not need to use a PokeTurn!

    1-2 x Dialga G + Dialga G Lv X + 1-2 :metal: - Vileplume big in your area? Mewtwo Lv X seeing a lot of play?Never fear! With Dialga's Time Crystal, all non-SP PokeBodies won't work! It also has the nifty ability to be able to trainer lock itself, so if you happen to run across a Shuppet or Uxie Donk deck that goes first, try to get this out as fast as possible.

    Warp Energy - Another method to be able to chain Dragon Rush, or remove a troublesome Bronzong G from the active. It's colorless cost means that it can be used as discard for Dragon Rush, or you can poketurn a Pokemon holding it to reuse it if you so need to.

    Looker's Investigation - I've heard of people using Professor Oak's New Theory or Cythia's Feelings as their "Shuffle and Draw supporters". Personally, I prefer using Looker's. The ability to view your opponent's hand and have them shuffle it back in to their deck is worth the 1 or 3 less cards you'll draw with this card should you choose to shuffle your own hand. This card has saved me from great vs horrible starts that I have turned around simply by shuffling my opponent's hand, and I doubt I'll remove it.

    Drifblim + :psychic: - The Undaunted Drifblim is used for two reasons. 1) To prevent Auto losses to Mewtwo Lv X if you don't run a Dialga G Lv X, and 2) To Take Away tanking Pokemon and shuffle them back in the deck (goodbye Dialga G/Steelix with 4 Special Metal Energy!) Oh, and it also can be a pseudo Machamp Counter if you don't want to sacrifice the chance of losing an Uxie Lv X to Machamp. I've even benched someone with this card while on my last prize because they refused to put any benched Pokemon for me to snipe.

    Drifblim FB + :psychic: - Weeeee, Drifblim is so cool. 120 HP is pretty bulky for an SP Pokemon, and the ability to hit Weakness on the bench (oh hai Uxie and Azelf) is pretty awesome, since it only needs a Flash Bite or a Lucario GL on the bench in order to be able to knockout the aforementioned Pokemon. Even with Nidoqueen's healing, it still 2HKOs it as well. It's a nifty tech, but it is pretty situational.

    Roserade GL - This card is so much fun. I've combined this with an emergency Bright Look to stall for a few turns, which can be useful. Also, did you know some Pokemon are unable to use Poke Powers while poisoned? Oh, and they can't retreat as well. With some careful planning, you can have their Pokemon die from poison at the end of their turn, giving you a Prize, and a chance to take one during your turn as well!

    Seeker - "Why do you need seeker? Doesn't it waste your supporter for the turn and make it an inferior PokeTurn?" Naw. This card has allowed me to get one extra Flash Bite to win, or just allowed me to force the opponent to pick up that last Pokemon to let me bench them. I've played some people who their strategy against LuxChomp is to leave as few Pokemon on the bench as possible, and Seeker messes up this strategy a lot.

    (geez, I didn't realize my post would be this long when I started)

    1) As mentioned before, LuxChomp excels at sniping and taking cheap prizes. 60 is enough to knock out most basic Pokemon (that evolve) and 80 hits a surprising amount of Stage 1s in addition to basics. Oh, and Uxie and Azelf have only 70 HP.

    2) If you are playing Luxchomp fast enough, they shouldn't get any stage 2s on the field. You have the advantage of being able to get out and use most of your attacks Turn 2, and you need to make the most of this by carefully looking at the field, finding the greatest threat (Pokemon about to evolve with the most energy for example), and taking it out.

    Not to mention, if they fail to knock out a Pokemon, you can either PokeTurn the damaged one or use Garchomp's Healing Breath.

    Geez, let me finish my post before doing this again.

    3) Generally, I try to get at least 1 Luxray and 1 Garchomp on the bench and/or attacking, as well as an Unown Q'd Smeargle or an Unown Q'd Uxie Lv X. Grabbing an early game Power Spray with the 1st Cyrus Conspiracy is generally advised, as denying Uxie drops is valuable. Having the ability to get a Crobat G when needed is useful to make sure to as well, in addition to having at least 1 PokeTurn at all times.

    4) Generally, to get past a bad opening hand, I try to look at ways to stall my opponent's set up, while offering the least pokemon for prizes, while lastly, trying to get an Uxie to draw as many cards as possible.

    5) I've been able to make good starts out of pretty much any hand with Call Energy and Cyrus's Conspiracy.

    6) Azelf Start, no call energy, no supporters. That's pretty much a bad start for any deck though. Beyond that, pretty much anything else is at least workable with.

    Also Rogue, this is a more recent LuxChomp Article (most importantly, post DCE)

    Started this almost right after this was posted 2 hrs 49 minutes wooooo

    Not making a new post

    7) Mirror matches are when you play a deck with the same general strategy, but with different techs (again: cards that boost consistency and help counter the metagame). Against Luxchomp Mirror Matches (or any SP match in general), it's advised to try to snipe Garchomp C, since that is usually the deciding factor in these matches

    8) And speaking of snipping, it's basically using an attack or power to allow yourself to attack a pokemon that was on the opponent's bench. Bright Look allows you to pull up any Pokemon from the bench to the active slot, and Garchomp's Dragon Rush can hit any Pokemon on the opponent's field, active or benched, this is generally used to either kill weak tech pokemon on the opponent's bench, or to kill some pokemon they are building up to evolve and/or attack with.

    Only the first two questions were real Devil's Advocate Questions

    9) Gyarados is always a tough match. You should try to take advantage of the fact they they spend 2 turns setting getting magikarp in the discard pile by trying to get easy kills and building up your resources. Saving your power Sprays for the right moment is crucial here, since there are many powers they have to use. Should you Spray the Uxie to prevent them from drawing cards? Should you spray the Azelf to prevent them knowing what their prizes are and pulling a Magikarp from there? Should you spray a Regice to try to stop them from switching your active Pokemon and possibly discarding Magikarp? Outside of Lucario GL being kept on the bench at all times, as well as a second Luxray as back up, your main route to beating this deck is careful use of your resources and denying them of their resources. A well timed Looker's making them shuffle their hand into their deck, for example, is a great way to cripple them right before you knock out a Gyarados.

    Lastly, if you run a Dialga G, trying to set up a Turn 1 Deafen will greatly help you slow them down, although it will limit you to 10 damage a turn (30 if you choose to run, and actually draw expert belt), which will not do a lot when it comes to knocking out Pokemon.

    10) These battles are won by setting up as fast as possible and focusing on getting Turn 2 Bright Looks or Dragon Rush to knock out any benched Oddish and Gloom before they can become a Vileplume. If they do become a Vileplume, then a combination of Bright Looking and Uxie Lv X's Zen Blade. It is also advisable to not search for an SP gadget with Cyrus's Conspiracy to not add to the number of dead cards in your hand.

    Of course, if your metagame has a lot of Vileplume in it, the teching in Dialga G Lv X will be your best shot, since Time Crystal will shut off Vileplume's Trainer Locking Body, Allergy Pollen. Be sure to save your Power Sprays for Gengar Lv X's Level down if they run it, since that will happen. If it does, try to keep an extra Bebe's Search in your hand in case you can't spray it.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2011
  16. Rogue Archetype

    Rogue Archetype Moderator <br> Contest Host

    Devil's Advocate Questions for you guys: - part 3 :p

    Question #7 = What is "Mirror"?

    Question #8 = What is "snipe" or "snipping" ?
  17. LegendaryLugia

    LegendaryLugia New Member

    7: You playing LuxChomp + your opponent playing LuxChomp = Mirror - playing against the same deck you are playing (not exactly the same list though, to be playing against someone with exactly the same list as you doesn't happen often).

    8: Using an attack to damage or place damage counters on one pokemon on your opponent's bench.
  18. luxray master2

    luxray master2 New Member

    8. using an attack to usally knock out a benched pokemon
  19. Rogue Archetype

    Rogue Archetype Moderator <br> Contest Host

    Devil's Advocate Questions for you guys: - part 4 :p

    Question #9 = HOW DO I BEAT GYRARADOS with this deck ???

    Question #10 = How do I beat a deck that Prevents me from Using my trainers? Is that what they mean by "Trainer Lock"? What decks lock trainers?
  20. luxray master2

    luxray master2 New Member

    9. to beat gyradoes the luxchomp player can use luxray gl with lucario gl to ko gyradoes fast
    10u can tech in pont to shuffle your hand in your deck oruse cards like bebe search to put a trainer on your dech ALSO u can put in dialga g x to shut off trainer lock.VILEGAR locks u from trainers

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