Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

The Road to Worlds 2005

M

Michel

New Member
I’ve had a look at the Premiere events structure in the USA and I’ve been quite surprized.
What PUI offers to US players is absolutely great!

The Road to Worlds 2005 will have 5 levels of Premiere events : City Championships - State Championships - Regional Championships - Gym Challenges and National Championship.

The Road to Worlds 2005

Prize structure of Premiere events 2005

Let’s have a look at the following figures about the prizes offered to each age group and the total prizes offered for each of these 2005 Premiere events levels :


City Championships :

for each age group : 1 Medal + 1 prize kit + 35 boosters

Total (3 age groups) : 3 Medals + 3 prize kits + 105 boosters


State Championships :

for each age group : 1 Trophy + 300 USD allowance for travel to National + 1 Admission to Origins + 72 boosters

Total (3 age groups) : 3 Trophies + 900 USD allowance for travel to National + 3 Admission to Origins + 216 boosters


Regional Championships :

for each age group : 3 Trophies + 2 invites to Worlds + 2 travels to Worlds + 3000 USD of scholarship + 300 USD allowance for travel to National + 1 Admission to origins + 216 boosters

Total (3 age groups) : 9 Trophies + 6 invites to Worlds + 6 travels to Worlds + 9000 USD of scholarship + 900 USD allowance for travel to National + 3 Admission to origins + 648 boosters


Gym Challenges :

for each age group : 1 invite to Worlds + 1 travel to Worlds + 88 boosters

Total (3 age groups) : 3 invite to Worlds + 3 travel to Worlds + 264 boosters


National Championship

for each age group : 3 trophies + 4 invites to World + 4 travels to World + 5000 USD scholarship + 316 boosters

total (3 age groups) : 9 trophies + 12 invites to World + 12 travels to World + 15000 USD scholarship + 948 boosters



If I take the 2004 figures of Premiere events run in the USA (105 City Championships + 40 State Championships + 38 Gym Challenges) and the 2005 figures already known (13 Regional Championships + 1 National Championship) , I have the following

Global prize support for Premiere events in 2005 in the USA :

Trophies/medals : 561

Invites and travels to World : 204

Travel allowance to National championship : 47700 USD

Scholarship : 132000 USD

Boosters : 29829

In addition to that, you also have the promo cards and the POP boosters offered.

Participation fee to all these tournaments ? FREE !!!


When I read that, I only have one word to say : amazing !!! :thumb: :clap:




But as you all know, I’m not from the USA and if I’m really happy for my US friends, I can’t prevent me of comparing with my country.

Comparing with Europe is very difficult because the prize and tournaments structures vary from country to country.

So let’s go for Belgium (these are the 2004 figures as nothing is official for 2005 except the City Championships, even if rumours announce the same for both years) :

Tournaments run : 5 City Championships + 0 State Championship + 0 Gym Challenge + 0 Regional Championship + 1 State Championship

Fee : between 5 and 7 Euro for each tournament (7 – 10 USD)

Prizes :

City Championships (global for the 5 events) : approx 150 boosters (each TO may decide) + 15 medals + 15 goodie bags

State : 1 invite to Worlds + 1 trip to Worlds + 3 trophies + approx 150 boosters

Global prize support for Premiere events in 2005 in Belgium :

Trophies/medals : 18 (USA 561)

Invites and travels to World : 1 (USA 204)

Travel allowance to National championship : 0 (USA 47700 USD)

Scholarship : 0 (USA 132000 USD)

Boosters : 300 (USA 29829)


As you see, the global allocation for all the 2005 Premiere events to our players is far less important than a single US Regional or a single US Gym Challenge.

But do you know that our 3 first CC’s have had more than 30 players each, more than many CC’s or State Championships in the USA ?

And do you know that if we compare the amount of ranked players per State, Belgium would be very close to the top 10 of the US States ?

Do you also know that our National Championship 2004, with 57 players, would have been in the top 10 of the US Gym Challenges run in 2004 qualifying each 3 players for Worlds ?


Other ‘outside the USA’ countries will have a little bit more support, other will have less, or no support at all, even if there are many players there.

I truly hope that PUI and the distributors will realize that there is no reason to consider Europe as the ‘third World’ of Pokemon.

There are sales and players on this side of the Atlantic, enthousiast and professional people involved in the game as TO’s or Gym leaders, and very competitive players who deserve to play at Worlds.



Of course I don't ask for the same as the USA, but I think the following would be fair for coutries outside the USA :

National Championship in each country listed on the PUI's website in the International section of POP (+ France) with :

- 1 invite and trip to Worlds for the winner of each of the 3 age groups
- 250 USD travel allowance to a Regional for the second of each age group
- 144 boosters for each age group to share amongst the top 8 players

Regionals Championships or gym Challenges : 6 in Europe and 2 in Asia with :

- 1 invite and trip to Worlds for the top 2 players of each of the 3 age group
- 216 boosters for each age group to share amongst the top 8 players

State championships, but only to give the opportunity to the players to play and have the State promo card


That would make, for Europe :

- 84 players winning a trip + invite to Worlds (41 % of the USA 204)

- 12000 USD of travel allowance (25 % of the USA 47700)

- 10800 boosters (36 % of the USA 29829)

- 0 USD scholarship (0 % of the USA 132000 USD)


and for Asia/Australia/New Zealand :

- 33 players winning a trip + invite to Worlds (16 % of the USA 204)

- 5250 USD of travel allowance (11 % of the USA 47700)

- 1440 boosters (5 % of the USA 29829)

- 0 USD scholarship (0 % of the USA 132000 USD)


for a global 'Road to Worlds 2005 in Europe/Asia/Oceania' of :

- 117 players winning a trip + invite to Worlds (57 % of the USA 204)

- 17250 USD of travel allowance (36 % of the USA 47700)

- 12240 boosters (41 % of the USA 29829)

- 0 USD scholarship (0 % of the USA 132000 USD)


I don't think it is that much compared with the US players, and with such a tournament structure, I may assure you that not only all the European/Asian players will be more than happy, but I'm sure our game will grow in all the participating countries.


Official International prize support has just been partially officially announced.
Here are the news :

State Championships :

for each age group : 1 Trophy +72 boosters

Total (3 age groups) : 3 Trophies + 216 boosters


National Championship

for each age group : 3 trophies + 2 invites to World + 1 travel to World + 1000 USD scholarship + 316 boosters

total (3 age groups) : 9 trophies + 6 invites to World + 3 travels to World + 3000 USD scholarship + 948 boosters


For the first time, we see 'scholarship' outside the USA and it is sure that this prize support is far more important than what we had in the past.

But there are some questions without answers, and these answers are needed to go further in the analysis.
- Which countries will participate and run State and/or Regional championships ?
- Will the local distributors have the obligation to follow that prize structure or will they be free to give less ?
- Will the distributors have to apply the '3 age groups' or will some National Championships be run with only one age group offering only 1 travel to Worlds instead of 3 ?
- Will we have Stadium Challenges as announced on PUI's website ?


Depending on the answers to these questions, Worlds will be a real World Championship with a lot of players coming from the different parts of the World, or it will still be a tournament called Worlds but which will be the same as a ‘USA vs Japan’ competition.


US figures are facts, Belgian figures are expected, the new prize support figures announced for outside Europe needs some answers, ... and Europe/Asia/Oceania figures are my personal dream :smile:


But one thing is 100 % sure : Pokemon Organized Play US Premiere events structure proposed by PUI is just great, and that's really nice for all the US players. :thumb:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Really nice article! You obviously spent a lot of time on it.

I think, however, the main question is, “What percentage of the dollars has come from these countries?” Or better still, “What is the income potential from these countries?”

Did Pokemon gain wide release in your country in ‘98/’99 as it did in the USA?

All I’m saying is be patient. It will get there if we keep this thing going.
 
DLD4A - ALL and I mean ALL boxes who are sold to Europe/Worldwide give an income to PUI.
Problem is the underestimated grey import.

WE had a release in Europe but done by Local Distributors and that's is different from what was done in the US (even in those days).

All what Michel, Henna, Frans and Me love to see, is at least something good structured with proper prizes.
Everyone playing with the same rules (floorrules/tournament rules) and a few changes to get to World or a way to get an invitation.
 
Thanks dld4a

Actually, Pokemon has been very successful in Europe with Wizards. We've had STSQ and GC with more than 350 players ... and European players who did excellent results at STS's or TMB.

We've lost many players because we've been without OP for more than 7 months when Wizards has lost the licence. But we see players coming back and new players coming to our game. Pokemon is growing again in Europe.

I will never repeat enough that I don't ask for the same prizes for Europe as for the USA. If you add some GC to what PUI has announced on his website, and if these prizes are offered by all the distributors, it would be really great.

Talking about money, I don't have figures.
What is sure is that each booster bought in Europe is money for Pokemon. Even if people do grey import because of the important difference of price between Europe and the USA (box in the USA 75 USD and approx 90 incl shipping - Europe 150 USD), each booster or box brings money PUI/Nintendo.
Of course, grey import doesn't generate income for the local distributors, but don't we see Pokemon as a 'Worldwide game' ?

Something is important to note too. As far as I know, NO promotion is made for Pokemon in Europe, except by private people (like in the UK). No ads in the mags or newspapers, nothing on TV, ...
Promotion is of course something essential if you want to increase POP and the sales.
 
There has been advertising in some Dutch Magazines, but not a single word how and were you can play with the cards.
Only a notice that cards are for sale in stores.
 
Where did you find all this.... I would like to know the count for Denmark.... I am going to City Championship on Saturday..
 
You know, I really hate to be the "bad" person who brings this up, but you must look at the worldwide player base. I know of a handful of good players in Europe that I would love to compete against at the World Championships, and a few in other countries as well. How many players does each country have? This is a rhetorical question, but I'd love for you to answer it if you know. Japan and the USA probably have the largest player base, and I think that you should expect that the USA and Japan have the most representatives at the World Championships because of this.

You asked for Europe, 41% of the USA figures to be accepted into Worlds. I am not exactly sure of the numbers, but unless you have 41% of our total player base, that's not going to happen.

Say the USA has (this number is completely random, and probably not even close) 3000 players who are competitively trying to earn a spot at the World Championships. 41% of 3000 is 1230. Reduce this ratio like so:

3000:1230 /10
300:123 /3
100:41

See? It goes back to 41 percent.

For every 100 players in the US, there should be 41 players in Europe, according to your logic. I don't think this kind of ratio exists. I think for every 100 players in the US there are anywhere between 15-30 players in Europe. The requests you are making will be considered outrageous by whoever is awarding you your trips, Nintendo I assume, and you'll get nowhere fast. You need to crunch the numbers.

Once you have a fairly accurate number of player base total, there is a way to work this out. You just put the number of US players before the colon, and the number of European players after it. Reduce by division until you have a sound fraction. Divide the smaller number into the bigger number.

41% is also written 41/100. If you want to find the percentage of a ratio you're working with, just divide the smaller number into the bigger number. Once you've got that ratio together, I think Nintendo will have to listen to you. Keep raising your voice all you want. You're going to have to stick some numbers in their face for them to take you any more seriously than they are.

I'd shoot smaller. My guess is that for every 100 players in the US, there are about 20 in Europe. Keep in mind that that's a generous ratio. It reduces down like this:

100:20 /5
20:4 /5
5:1

For every 5 US players, there is 1 European player. I'm not even sure it's that close. It could be 6:1 or 7:1 or higher, I'm not sure. Regardless, 5:1 is your ratio. 1/5 is .20, so that's 20%. If the USA is doing this:

Invites and travels to World : 204
Travel allowance to National championship : 47700 USD
Scholarship : 132000 USD

Then you're going to want 20 percent of each of that, right? You're asking for astronomical numbers. 57%, 36%, 41%, it's just not going to happen that fast. You need to go more slowly and Nintendo will in turn be more accepting.

20% of 204 (Invites and travels): 40.8
20% of 47700 (Travel allowance): 9,540
20% of 29829 (Boosters): 5965.6

This is Worlds-bound stuff from your figures. I suggest starting small. Ask for 15-25 trips to start with. If you do get the trips, think about this.

There are 204 US players at Worlds, right? If you got 20 trips, you would have 1 European player there for every 10 US players. I think that's pretty good. Last year at Worlds there were only a handful (less than 20, I know that) of players there from Europe, and a lot of them came on their own money.

Travel allowance to Nationals, I would go a lot smaller than almost 10 grand. That's a pretty big figure. I'll leave that up to your disgretion, as pertaining to travel allowance, but 20% of 47700 is a lot, and I don't think if you throw that curveball at Nintendo they'll appreciate it too much.

Boosters, I'll also leave up to you. I assume that what matters most to you guys over there is getting to Worlds. Start with 20-25 trips or so, and see how Nintendo reacts. If it's unfavorably, try in the ballpark of 15. If it's favorable, don't push it. Be happy with what you get. They're a business, and a business's first priority is to make money. Sad but true for us Pokemon players. ;p

Yeah, sorry for being the "bad" person who tries to put math before emotions, but Nintendo won't take the figures because they have a lot of zeros after them. Get reliable numbers for the player population in Europe and in the USA, and crunch the numbers. Hope I could shed some light on how to approach this subject.
 
The answer is very easy to give (source : PUI's website for prizes and PUI's website/Ratings and Rankings/Modified/Overall).

On Feb 02/26/05 :

USA : 2002 ranked players
Outside the USA : 761 ranked players

For each 200 players in the USA, there are 76 players outside that country, which makes 38 % of players outside the USA compared with the players from the USA.

What do I ask ?

Trips : 57 % of the USA
Travel allowance : 36 % of the USA
Boosters : 41 % of the USA
Scholarship : 0 % of the USA

In other words, there is 38 % of the 132000 USD given to the US players as scholarship free for 900 boosters and 39 trips and invites to Worlds.
38 % of 132000 USD is ... 50160 USD.


Do I really ask more than what the players outside the USA deserve compared to the US players ? Sure I don't !

Why would I have to go slowly when I just ask to put the balance right ? :confused:

And don't forget that, in many countries, a lot of players are not registered in 'My pokemon' and not ranked because of a lack of information given to them. Some countries, like France, have tournaments and players (enev Nationals) but have no players ranked at all.


SuperWooper, I had already put maths and figures before emotion when I've wrote that article :wink:
 
Michel said:
The answer is very easy to give (source : PUI's website for prizes and PUI's website/Ratings and Rankings/Modified/Overall).

On Feb 02/26/05 :

USA : 2002 ranked players
Outside the USA : 761 ranked players

For each 200 players in the USA, there are 76 players outside that country, which makes 38 % of players outside the USA compared with the players from the USA.

What do I ask ?

Trips : 57 % of the USA
Travel allowance : 36 % of the USA
Boosters : 41 % of the USA
Scholarship : 0 % of the USA

In other words, there is 38 % of the 132000 USD given to the US players as scholarship free for 900 boosters and 39 trips and invites to Worlds.
38 % of 132000 USD is ... 50160 USD.


Do I really ask more than what the players outside the USA deserve compared to the US players ? Sure I don't !

Why would I have to go slowly when I just ask to put the balance right ? :confused:

And don't forget that, in many countries, a lot of players are not registered in 'My pokemon' and not ranked because of a lack of information given to them. Some countries, like France, have tournaments and players (enev Nationals) but have no players ranked at all.


SuperWooper, I had already put maths and figures before emotion when I've wrote that article :wink:
Click to expand...

Not quite, you didn't. If you look at the figures for players in the USA signed up and outside, your figures still don't match up completely.

USA: 2002 signed up players
Outside USA: 761

The ratio is 2002: 761
That reduces to 2.6307:1.

There are 38% as many players outside the USA than inside the USA.

You asked for 57% in trips. This is nowhere naer 38%, Michel. You haven't put numbers first. Remember that Nintendo is a business, and they aren't going to give you 38%. They earn the most money in the USA, and that's where the largest player base is. As such, our players are going to outnumber the rest of the Worlds. The USA is paying to hold the event. Do you know how much money they are using for Worlds 2005, to hold all those players and provide those great prizes?

57% is a lot bigger than 38%. Nintendo isn't going to give you 57%. They won't give you 38%. They probably won't even give you 30%. You should be shooting for 20-25%, in my opinion, based on those figures, but not for Worlds 2005. Here's why it's not this year that you'll accomplish that goal:

204 USA players are going to Worlds.
38% of 204 is 77.52
That means there will be 204 US and 78 National players.
This is 282 players total, plus accomodations for everybody running the event.

It's not going to work out, Michel. 20% is more realistic. Watch the figures:
204 USA players are going to Worlds.
20% of 204 is 40.8
That means there will be 204 US and 41 National players.
This is 245 total, plus accomodations for everybody running the event.

Realize that it costs more to fly people from outside the USA to Worlds than inside, so if they go with your 38%, it's not going to happen. Their profit will be a lot smaller. I think you should be asking for about 15-20% this year. You need to keep reminding Nintendo of the facts, and so far you've asked for 57% and haven't seen much progress. The reason is that you're asking for more than the numbers are showing to you.

You didn't do the math. There are 38 players outside the USA for every 100 inside, based on the 38% value. 57% is too much to ask. Present Nintendo with a reasonable plan for Worlds 2005. If you're turned down, keep going. I've seen minimal, but at least some, progress outside the USA with your approval of Nationals and Stadiums outside our country this year, and in the Netherlands there's good news: your first sanctioned tournament. Present Nintendo with numbers and they'll listen.
 
1. Stadiums? What stadiums? There is not one officially announced and I really think that this number will not increase throughout the season. The distributors are not willing to give the money they earn to foreign players. And if someone of the distributors does a challenge, while the others don´t, the trip could possibly be won by a foreign player, maybe from a country where the distributor does no challenge.
So I doubt that there will be so many stadiums.

2. Yes, trips from Europe are more expensive, but know what, SuperWooper? To buy displays is more expensive for us, too, because two companies are earning money with it, PUI and the distributors. The profit with every sold display in Europe is much higher than in the USA. And with less prize support, that gap of profit broadens even more.

3. And: The numbers for Europe are most likely an under-estimation because NO distributor overhere advertises that there are things like MyPokemon-Accounts or Player Rewards Program. Some countries like France even do not appear in official POP completely.
 
4. Beside the distributors not advertising about My Pokemon, it's in English.
Only 2 countries in Europe have that language. In all other countries they speak, read and understand most times only their own language so those players will not easily sign up.

5. If there has been an equal start at the beginning of the PUI era, than Europe would have an equal amount of players as the US.

6. PUI is not listening to numbers, we have a great example in our country about that.
 
If you read my post, you'll see that the 39 trips (difference between the 38 and 57%) are paid by the scholarship that should be given to players outside the USA.

Once again : if no scholarship is given outside the USA, 38 % of USD 132000 may be used for additional trips. That's 50160 USD.


If we talk about equity, where are the State Championships ? Where are the Regional Championships ? Where are the gym Challenges ?

The money that will not be invested in these events may be added to the 50160 USD.

I do completely agree with the 6 points of Glumanda and Rainbowgym. The real situation if far from what we may see on PUI's website. There are many more players outside the USA than what we may see.

It's easy to say 'if you want more, work harder' and talk about POP activity when the 'official' figures are wrong.
Is it that difficult to provide information in local languages on PUI's website ? Is it that difficult to include countries like France in the rankings ? Is it that difficult for local distributors to give info about my POP to local TO's ?

The last 3 events I've played (2005 CC's) :
Gent 16 players not registered (29 players) -
Ekeren 5 players not registered (30 players) -
Dendermonde 13 players not registered (31 players)

90 participating players, 56 are registered, 34 are not registered to 'my POP' !!! 38 % of the players !


Let's keep on doing maths and play with figures ...

Ranked players outside USA : 761
If we take the same avarage figures, 38% of the players who've played at least one event are not registered and ranked.
As 761 is 62% of the total amount of players, we should have 1223 ranked players outside the USA

It's 61% of the amount of players in the USA :eek:

When PUI and distributors talk about POP activity, about working harder to find new players, about prizes based on the amount of players ... they should never forget that the figures they give are far from the reality ... even if these figures are better for them :nonono:

Finally, I would have asked for more if I wanted to have equity between the USA and the rest of the World :tongue:
 
Confirmation of the trips at the Belgian Championship :

1 age group and 1 trip

No further comment :nonono:
 
Michel: Remember, I am on your side and would have hoped that Europe would get more trips to Worlds. The fault in your figures is that in the USA, there are similiear, if not higher, non registered players at tourneys! You factor in Europe's non registered vs. USA's registered only. It is not uncommon here for a prerelease to have only 10-30% of the players be registered w/ POP. Sure, everyone has a POP ID number assigned to them, but you (or the parent if a minor) has to SIGN UP for an account w/ pokemon-tcg-op.com. Besides my son and I, there are probably only 3 other kids in our league that has a registered POP/My Pokemon acc't. Thats maybe 5 out of 30+ league registered players. Less than 1/6 of our group. I'd wager that the number is similar across most leagues in the USA. Do you really think that there are "only" ~2000 tournament level playing pokemon players in the USA? California States drew almost 200 people on its own. The "smaller" states are drawing 70-90. Sure, there are some repeaters in the numbers because of traveling players, but still, that is alot of players. If we have 40 state championships and the average is 80 players, that is 3200 players right there. And I guarantee you that not everyone in the states tourney has a POP/my pokemon account.

Bottom line...as long as you have a "middleman" doing BUSINESS with PUI, then they will make BUSINESS decisions with awarding trips, which means very few travel awards.

Keith
 
First off, Great article and great job on all teh research done.

I look at it all and wonder how nintendo can give us free tournaments knowing how much it cost. Its weird to see that in total over 5 cases of boosters given in a year and all the trophys given cost so much. I am so surprized even though they are a multi million dollar company that they can give so much away and ask for nothing in return. I guess with all the money they get off boosters people buy by the case they dont care much because that past for it in full over the year.

Its nice to know a cmpnay like that picked up the game and then gave us free events this entire year to thank us for our support. Its also nice that they mass produce POP packs and give thm out at all event so we get alottttt of product at every event for just competing and giving us our hardest effort.

I remember worlds last year and how much they dropped us for being there. The leauge was free and all the stuff given was increadible. gamecubes,gameboy's,gameboy advanced gameplugs and promos,promos,promos.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top