TMS Alternative Tournament Software

Discussion in 'Professor Forum' started by SteveP, Apr 13, 2004.

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  1. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

    Just a heads up to all Profs and TOs out there regarding an effort to build an alternative to TMS.

    We've created a group of software developers and interested parties who are starting to develop a Desktop Tournament software product that will run on Windows, MacOS, and Linux machines. We've completed the initial requirements and have started designing the GUI and data. Hopefully, this effort will "pay off" and we'll be able to deliver a useable alternative to TMS to those interested.

    In the meantime, I'm making my own personal tournament software available for any interested Profs and TOs. I've testing it extensively in my "LAB", but will be testing it in the "REAL WORLD" this weekend at the Colorado State Championship. The URL below contains the zipped install files needed to install this software on Windows machines.

    Within the next week, this software may undergo a few revisions if testing uncovers any bugs. Nevertheless, I'm confident the bugs, if any, will be minor. Feel free to test/use it yourselves and report any bugs.

    Let me just list a few features in my software. These features will probably also be included in the upcoming multi-platform version we are developing.

    1. Support for Age-modified Swiss and switching to Age-separated Playoffs. Just change the tournament type before starting the playoffs.

    2. Playoffs of any number up to 64 players. If the number of players is not a power of 2, byes will be created.

    3. Export to TMS .trn file. This can be uploaded to POP's website.

    4. Support for 3-game matches.

    5. 3 different tiebreakers calculated the way DCI does it. 33% minimum when calculating opponent-based tiebreakers.

    6. Late-player adding with the option to give byes or DNPs (did not play).

    7. Support for Age-separated tournaments. You can include all the players in one tournament and the software automatically matches players in the same age-category.

    8. View and edit the "raw" tournament data. Externally, the files are text-based, tab-delimited. This makes it possible to view/edit the data in any text editor or spreadsheet.

    9. Mixed pairings. You can manually pair some players and automatically pair other players.

    10. Local Players database. You can create a database of your local players and with the click of a mouse, add them to your tournament.

    NOTE: Documentation is coming! After the final testing, I'll provide documentation for those interested.

    Let me just say that I've heard POP is totally re-engineering TMS. It is my hope that it will be robust and bug-free enough to be useable. However, I doubt it will be an "open" product, something that we in the "community" will be able to influence as far as desired features. Our development group is committed to meeting the desired needs and wants of this community. We hope you'll find interest in our efforts and our products.

    Desktop Tournament Development Group

    Last edited: Apr 13, 2004
  2. DaytonGymLeader

    DaytonGymLeader New Member

    Steve, excellent to hear that this is moving forward. The product before last revision was really good.

    Sorry I can't help you guys out, but I quit writing code quite some time ago (like 15 years ago). If you need help with documentation, let me know, I'd be more than happy to help you guys out there.

    Just a possible feature request, we still don't have anything that does Draft Pods.
  3. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

    Thanks DGL.

    Draft Pods isn't a requirement for our initial release. However, it WILL be in a later release. Thanks for the input. I'll make sure we add that to our next-release requirements.

    Regarding documentation help, we'd love to add you to our team as the documentation person. Email or PM me if you want to be put on the team.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2004
  4. Tahna

    Tahna New Member

    I asked some friends of mine (students of informatics) to do the same.
    So far they've gotten the shell ready jTMS pre-alpha 0.3

    As the title implies we're not quite at the release candidate yet, but we'll get there soon.
    I'd be happy to assist in bugtesting and passing any information on to my friends (I myself am a student of Biomechanics, which isn't that programming oriented).
    Keep up the good work, SteveP and others.
  5. The Anaconda

    The Anaconda New Member

    Hmm, sounds interesting. Cannot download it at the moment (because of the computer I'm on), but I'll look at it as soon as I can.

    Just out of curiosity, is this just the binaries, or is a source included with it as well?
  6. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

    Just the binaries. email me if you really are interested in the VB source.
  7. GreatFox

    GreatFox New Member

    Just a heads up...

    The GUI for the Cross-platform Desktop Tournament software is coming along nicely.

    Screen Shots:

    They are not final yet and input would be very much appreciated! :)
    Screenshots are from the Mac OS X build.
  8. The Anaconda

    The Anaconda New Member

    Hmm.. Well I'm not a VB programmer (I do C++ mostly) so I wouldn't be able to do anything with the source :(

    Oh well. Cool screenshots!
  9. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

    I just got a hold of version 1.11 of TMS of evidently they've changed the file format of the .TRN file. The .TRN export of my software supported 1.06. I'm wondering if TMS 1.11 will be able to read the older .TRN files created by older versions of TMS.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2004
  10. babayaga

    babayaga New Member

    Sweeeeeeeeeeet! Those of us who aren't stuck with Windoze appreciate a non-dumpy interface.

  11. ScythKing

    ScythKing Member

    Being a software developer/analyst - what exactly are you folks writing this in to make this cross-platform? The only tools I can think of that would be remotely capable of programming on Mac, Windows and Linux would be gcc++ and something like GTK.
    Where is the project hosted? How does one volunteer?
    I'm experienced in C/C++, VB, C#, Pascal/Delphi and others.
    If I may suggest decoupling the GUI from the program logic it may even be possible to port to the PocketPC and Palm. Possibly let the GUI generate/consume XML to communicate with the actual logic?
  12. GreatFox

    GreatFox New Member

    We're using RealBasic. The simplest way to go (for the moment). It's similar to VB but with the power to compile for Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux.

    The project is being hosted at SourceForge ( ) eventhough we're still in the planing and design stages, so there really isn't much. Check with steve on how to volunteer. If youcan contribute somehow to the team, we'll be glad to bring you on board. Of course, its being kept OpenSource (for the most part eventhough its being build with RealBasic) so anyone can make suggestions and give us feedback.

    I'm also looking into building a website dedicated to the project for everyone to have easier acces and updates to it.

    The end product will be an app bult by the community for the community.
  13. Rainbowgym

    Rainbowgym Active Member

    Thanks, finally people who know what is needed making a program.
    I think you need an special avatar in the future, so we can recognize the Desktop Team experts.(and ask questions)

    I'm a real computer disaster, can only work with programs, but I will try the program and see of any bugs will appear.

    The only thing I really should like: Not the players age but their date of birth (or an option to choose).
    There is no conflict with any law as far as I know, if you state in your tournament invitations (in case you run anything age required) that players should present POP id + Naam + Date of Birth.
    Asking someone date of birth is a normal thing in case you run something which requires agedivissions.
    If players don't want to give that because of any privacy thing, they will always be placed in 15+.

    What could be done is that every TO has a form for players who they hand out a POP ID, in the form they need to fill out Name, date of Birth and sign. Bit the same of with DCI, but only difference that this information can be kept on that specific TO's computer/administration only (or meaby in the PUI TMS system).

    With the DCI we had some troubles because we have very strong privacy laws overhere (and people insisting on keeping some thing private), and we arranged that we only had to give Name, Date of Birth and DCI nr to the Distributor. The forms were not mailed but stayed in the administration of the clubleader. Parents of minors did signed it and kids were on the rankings, but all further private information (like adress+email) did not became further than the clubleader. If anything should be handed out to the players it was send to the clubleader and they took care of handing it out.

    Meaby something like this will work?
    Just my opinion.
  14. GreatFox

    GreatFox New Member

    To keep compatabilty with TMS, we will be including birth date on DT now. As of TMS 1.16, it now asks for bith date insted of age.
    Shhh.... its a secret... ;)
  15. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

    Like GreatFox says....

    FYI, the DCI Reporter software does Age-category instead of DOB. As it stands today, TMS 1.1x requires DOB in the .TRN file that is uploaded. If that stands, we'll indeed make sure it's a required field in our software.

    Also, my PTO showed me the new POP ID cards the other day. I don't remember if they had a DOB field on them, and if there was a privacy statement on the turn-in card. Does anyone know for sure?
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2004
  16. ScythKing

    ScythKing Member

    Yup - I'm looking right at it - First Name, Last Name, City, State, Date of Birth are the only "fields" on the card to be filled in and mailed in. The ID card itself only has POPID and Name.
  17. bulbasnore

    bulbasnore Administrator Staff Member Trader Feedback Mod

    As I told the guys, you can take and xmit my DOB, but you aren't going to post it on a wall!
  18. ukpokemonpro

    ukpokemonpro New Member

    Ah PUI that stuffs Europe for sure where we need those privacy and consent statements..

    Again no thought of International as in STATE having a /Region or County alternate!
  19. Hagrid23

    Hagrid23 New Member

    THe DOB is entered into TMS but it doesn't get displayed on any of the other screens or printouts. The pairings and standings all deal with age grouping only.
  20. TrainerJL

    TrainerJL New Member

    Smooth as silk

    I just ran my first tournament as TO yesterday, using the version of the software from about two weeks ago, and it worked great. Thank you very much!

    One question: Since the software doesn't support Top 8 right now, how do you do it? Do you manually pair the top 8 rounds, and give everyone else a DNP for the round? It looks like the TRN file is ok that way, but it would take forever if you have lots of players.

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