Trading Online
So I was half way through writing an article about how to prepare for a tournament but I feel like recently that it’s been done to death, so I figured I would leave that one on the back burner and undertake a new project. The article I’m instead going to write is about trading cards online. As far as I know there hasn’t been one done on the gym so I figured I would write one and share my experiences along with a few tips to help make your trading go smoother. Personally I’ve been trading online on and off for approximately 5 years and have completed well over 150 trades online through several different websites. What my article will cover is what you can do to make your trading go more smoothly, tips on how to get trades, and lastly how to protect yourself while trading online. The information will be relevant to all level of traders, from those that have never traded online to even the savviest of online traders will hopefully be able to pick up some tips.
The Pros and Cons to Trading Online
The reason I like to trade online is quite simple, it’s cheaper than buying cards. If I need a card for a tournament I will usually break down and buy it, however I can’t really justify spending money to finish off fun decks or trading for cards I might not need in the long run. I’m a college student who works part time with many other expenses and activities I would rather be putting my money towards than Pokémon (I’m sure many of you fellow college students can relate to this). I’m sure a lot of you reading this are also young kids and teenagers who don’t have a job yet and don’t have money coming in. Trading at leagues or online might be your only way of getting cards you need. I’m sure many of you are asking yourselves, “Why should I trade online when I can simply go to my local leagues and trade?” The answer is simple, numbers and time. First leagues is usually only once a week which you might not even be able to make it to on a weekly basis due to other commitments (due to practice I usually only get to drop by my league the last half hour). Secondly you can only reach a small group of people at your league. By trading online hundreds of people are able to look at your “binder” 24-7. You don’t even need to be online or actively seeking out trades for trades to come along like you need to at league.
I’ve talked about some of the pros let me take a few minutes to talk about some of the cons of trading online. First its time consuming, throwing up a trade thread and hoping people come to you will usually result in some interest but you usually need to start actively looking at others trade threads to find trades a lot of the time. I won’t even mention packaging stuff and making it to the post office. This is why I usually trade periodically I usually pop up on the grid for a few weeks make quite a few trades trying and getting what I want and then take a few months off. Another con is the cost while stamps and postage usually aren’t too bad it does add up, but I’ll go into more details about this later in the article. Lastly their risk involved, there are rippers and sadly it does happen. However I will say you can do an awful lot to protect yourself and really minimize your odds of getting ripped and I’ll also go into more detail about this later.
Your Trade List
Trading online actually has a lot in common with an interview or business meeting. When you walk in for an interview, your being judged the second you walk through the door and you have a very small window of opportunity to make a good impression. The same with trading online with so many trade lists (just like other applicants) you need to make yours stand out and draw attention to it.
The first thing is your title, after all there are 20 some trade topics on the front page alone. The question you need to ask yourself is what is going to make someone click on yours? There is a couple different ways to approach this; the most effective in my opinion is the basic have/want. This is very simple you start out with Have:, or H: and then you continue by listing a few of the cards you feel other players would want or are in high demand. Then you simply do the same thing with your wants you put Want: or W: and then put what you want. If you have a large want list it can also be effective to say things like “want a lot.” People will be drawn in by your haves but they will also be more likely to click on your thread if they know they have something you want. Like I said I believe this to be the simplest and most effective however I have seen some people but crazy or funny titles to try and draw attention to their thread. Thread titles like “Trading Chocolate Chip Cookies for Cards” might just get someone to smile or laugh enough to click on your thread, I know I’ve done it before (Disclaimer: Don’t try and trade chocolate chip cookies for cards, I highly doubt the mods will let you get away with this.) What I’m trying to say is avoid generic titles like “mikes trade thread” or “my trade thread.” Since this really tells people nothing about what you have to offer or what you’re looking for. I know a lot of this seems like common sense however sometimes it’s the simplest things that get over looked or ignored.
Next thing you need to look at is your trade thread itself. I know starting it out it can be a really daunting task but you have to take the time and put together a good well built trade thread. It will pay dividends in the end, If a store looks dirty and unattractive it will hurt its business, same with trade threads. If a trade thread is unorganized or lack basic enough, I usually won’t waste my time sorting through a wall of text just hoping you might have something I want. The first thing you should start out with is a list of your rules. Most people list basic rules such as “I follow the ref rule” and “I follow all Pokegym rules” these are pretty obvious but still worth mentioning. The big ones in my opinion are “if your card is not mint/near mint you must let me know,” where you send to (some people only send US, North America, etc.) and other special requirements such as “trades over $30 must be sent with delivery conformation” (note make special demands such as where you ship to and adding DC might limit the number of people that are willing to trade with you however if you feel strongly about something than it is unavoidable.)
Next is your want section, some people prefer it at the bottom I like it up top, just personal preference here. Either way you’re going to have to list off what your haves are once again this is a lot of personal preference so I’ll just tell how I do it. I start by listing the Lv X, than Primes, Ex’s and than the rest of the cards. Something to note if you have a huge trade thread I suggest putting a section of your notable haves. If your list is long people don’t always want to look through it especially if there just browsing by adding a notable halves section this might catch somebody’s eye. Stuff like playable or high demand holos or reverse holos could be listed in this section. Some people prefer to list by type (this can get hard because if you have 3 Tyranitars from different sets you have to distinguish between them) however I prefer simply just to list by set.
The big things to avoid are just simply put “have a lot just ask” (note this is acceptable with commons, uncommon, and non popular rares.) Like I said there is a lot of personal preference the main point is just have a neat and organized thread. If a thread is not organized I will click out of it right away and won’t even bother and I’m not the only person. If you’re not willing to take the time to put together a well organized thread, what does that say about your reliability or commitment? I know it takes time at the start but it really is important to do it right.
Getting Those Trades
Alright so you have your list, you know what you want, the next step is figuring out how to get it. The main factors that determine your “strategy” are going to be time and necessity. Needing a card by the end of the month is a lot different than needing a card by the end of next week especially if you have to send first. The same with necessity if you don’t need the card that badly or if it’s simply an upgrade want you have a lot more time to try and secure a trade. No matter how badly or when you need a card your usually go to use a lot of the same strategies. You have to be active and aggressive (the level of your activeness and aggressiveness will be determined by the before mentioned how badly and when you need the card.) Search out trades don’t simply wait for them to come to you, the more offers the better. If I found 10 people with the card I want and I’m actively trying to trade them this is far better than 2. A lot of the time trades don’t go anywhere so you really do need to have a lot of different offers out there. The second thing is persistence, I know I referred to it as aggressiveness earlier but persistence is probably a better word. Active traders, trade often and a lot, so especially if you’re trying to get your hands on a popular card you have to understand if a trader has it one day he might not have it the next. This is why it’s very important to follow up as often as you possibly can. Also if you straight up shoot out an offer, (example: my card X your card Y) you’re cutting out a full step rather than asking someone to check your list. I have to stress when you put an offer out there make it a fair offer, if somebody shoots me an offer and is obliviously undervaluing my cards a lot of the time I won’t even bother dealing with them or at times even responding to them. However if they shoot me a fair offer followed by a comment telling me what else they have off my want list, I’ll usually take a look at their list and then shoot them a counter offer.
Shipping
Starting out you might not be very familiar with how to ship or with the post office, I know I certainly wasn’t but don’t worry you’ll pick it up quickly. Before I go any further I have to make it clear ship with top loaders. It protects the cards the best and some people will out right neg ref you if you don’t. One card per sleeve and 2 cards per top loader is the standard. If you have a large amount of low value cards to send (for example 20 commons) you can put them in clear sleeves (you can usually fit a good 5 or more cards in a penny sleeve) and then tape them between two hard top loaders (make sure tape gets all around the top loaders so no cards fall out. This really is a non negotiable part of trading online; you can buy penny sleeves in packs of 75 for less than a dollar. Hard cases are usually a bit more but since everybody ships with them you should always have approximately the same number on hand, so really this is only a onetime expense. Actually I stopped at Walmart yesterday and while I was there took a look. They Toploaders in stock, 75 for 3.99. I bought my first group of top loaders I would say 5-6 years ago and have never had to buy more.
Now back to shipping there are different levels you can ship at (with different prices as well) a lot of it is just what you feel comfortable with and the value of the trade. The basic shipping is just taking an envelope sticking a 44 cent stamp on it and dropping it in the mail. It usually costs about a dollar to send to Canada and a little over a dollar to send overseas. You can buy padded envelopes usually for around a dollar at most places you buy regular envelops, there usually a bit more to ship but if you wanted to add delivery confirmation or shipping insurance you need them. Padded envelopes are also stronger and more durable than regular envelopes. Delivery Conformation usually costs about 80 cents and just lets you know where your package is at and when it arrives. While this will let you know when they receive it, it does not however give you any recourse should your package be lost in the mail. For this you’ll need to buy shipping insurance. The cost of shipping insurance will depend on how much you are trying to ship your item for. Your local post office will have a chart with prices but it works on ranges. Insurance for a package between $10-$50 dollars will cost X amount and than $50 to $100 will cost X amount. If you’re buying a padded envelope and trying to put delivery conformation and shipping insurance on it on top of shipping you’re easily looking at $5-$6 I would reserve this sort of treatment for very high end trades.
I’ve dealt a lot with the post office and have had very few problems but I still have had a few over the years. I usually just ship standard mail however on bigger trades I will ship with delivery confirmation and/or shipping insurance. Everybody will develop their own system on what values they trust the post office with. If you have any further questions on pricing or even how to ship your items I recommended just stopping in at your local Post Office usually they are very friendly and helpful.
ITrader and Reputations
Your Itrader is the number of trades you have completed online with different individuals. The total amounts of trades a person has completed (this includes repeat business) can be found by simply clicking on the persons Itrader number. It should also be noted that refs for trades made before the itrader system was put into place can be found on the master list in the PTC, these refs still count! Quite a few of us built up a substantial amount of refs. Personally I have 30 some on the master list but others such as PokemonMike have almost 200. When doing a trade lower refs will almost always send first, don’t even bother trying to convince somebody with more refs to send first it just won’t happen.
Now that I’ve talked a little bit about the itrader, I’ll talk about reputation. Building up a positive reputation is hard especially at first. I really don’t like dealing with people with less than 3-5 feedback and I will almost always avoid dealing with people with 0. The honest answer is they just simply haven’t proven themselves reliable and they really don’t have much to lose by backing out. I will say things such as a well organized trade thread or actively posting on the gym will make me more likely to trade with them. Since it does show they put forth some effort into their thread and into the gym. If you’re just starting out you need to make it clear to people that you are serious.
Even as an experienced savvy trader it is important to build up a positive reputation. There are some people I prefer to deal with simply because I know that I can count on them. People like PokemonMike and Waynegg are some of my personal favorites. They are polite; they drive a hard bargain but are fair, and most importantly they ship quickly! I cannot stress how important that is, if I need a card ASAP I will automatically go to a person I know ships quickly.
Starting out
I won’t lie, starting out can be tough but we all had to do it at one point. Things such as being an active member on the boards, having a well put together trade thread, and being polite as well as using proper English (this isn’t texting) all show you’re a serious trader. The next thing I’ll say is when your starting out, trade, just trade even just small paper clip trades (my $3 holo for your $3 holo) getting a few refs under your belt will make things go a lot easier for you in the future. Like I talked about earlier it will show people you’re not messing around and are serious about trading online.
One of the biggest down sides to being new and trading online is that you will almost always have to send first. If your just starting out I recommened dealing with no one with less that 10 refs. The thing I do is I value a ref at a $1, what I mean by that is if you have 15 refs I’ll send up to $15 dollars worth of stuff to you if I’m send first, 20 refs I’ll send up to $20, etc. I’m not saying this is the best system and keep in mind it’s all approximate I’m just saying this is what I use. A lot of the people I see getting ripped off are people that are either greedy and take offers that sound too good to be true (listen to your gut, and know when to walk away) or send first to people with very few refs. I said it before and I’ll say it again ship quickly, you really need to hammer out these first few refs and waiting a week to send not only starts you out on the wrong foot it also takes a lot longer to build up these refs.
Proper Etiquette
Instead of making this a long and boring paragraph I’m just going to put this in list form.
Be Professional: I hate it when people make this game out to be nothing but a way to make money but when you are trading cards online you really do need to be professional. I do see trading online like a business deal, I am trading my goods for your goods.
Maturity: Don’t act like your 5 when posting or try and use your parents as an excuse to back out of a trade. If you not mature enough to trade online than please don’t.
Check Lists: Everyone fully understands you’re not going to trade your Luxray X for anything but your high wants but on lower end stuff checks lists. If you’re not willing to check list many people, myself included are not will to check yours.
Make the first offer if you’re on somebody else’s thread: Also don’t be afraid to tell people to make the first offer on yours.
Ship quickly: Everybody wants their stuff.
Leave feedback when you receive: If a person has less than 5 I’ll reserve the right to wait to leave them feedback just from trouble I’ve had in the past of having to track done refs, but if people are active traders just give the ref when you receive after all they kept up their end of the bargain. Trying to hold their feedback hostage is just unprofessional. On the opposite side of this however if you’re sending second after you received your end try and leave feedback quickly as well. I would call anything within 48 hours an acceptable window.
Be Polite: Not everybody is going to see eye to all the time, and even if you’re not able to work a deal out with someone this time maybe you can next time. Repeat business is huge and it’s best not to burn any bridges when you don’t have to.
Know Your Values: If you’re on the gym that means you have the internet, which means you have access to eBay and a handful of other sites that will allow you to price your cards. There is no reason why you should get ripped off value wise.
Don’t be stupid about your values: This goes with the last one, I hate quoting Dr. Phil but “Don’t sell me an outhouse and try and convince me it’s the Taj Mahal Hall” Just because you value your $15 cards at $25 does not make it a $25 card, so don’t try and convince me it is.
Values: If you’re on somebody else’s trade thread don’t ask for their values without giving yours first. I will always ask for yours first on my thread. Note it is acceptable to ask values on your own trade thread as well as asking questions like how much do you feel I’m short?
Suggestions
There are a lot of things I really like about trading on Pokegym, however there is something I would like to be seen done differently. My interest has always been what’s best for the community, (after all I am taking the time to write this for this very reason) so hopefully nobody takes this as criticism but rather an open discussion on how to improve trading.
The first thing I would like to see is getting rid of the Gym Tribunal. Instead I think a sub forum should be created solely for the purpose of dealing with trading problems. It could easily be stickied under Auctions and Sales house or wherever. This way people could post what their problems are and who their with. Not only would they be able to see how much attention there topic is getting, other members of the trading community could also become aware of problems much faster. I don’t really like or understand the secrecy that’s involved with the tribunal and I think this would be a solution. I also hate sending them an email and have nobody respond to it for 3-4 days if at all even on minor things at least if it was a topic I could see how many views it has gotten.
I would also like to see the policy of not being able to leave a negative reference after a person backs out changed as well. I can understand why the Gym has this policy (I don’t agree with it) but I do understand it. If I walk into restaurant sit down and then wait an hour before they come and tell me they don’t have what I ordered and I’m going to need to eat elsewhere I would classify this has a bad experience. However in the same scenario if they told me they did not have what I wanted when I placed my order I would probably be less upset. The same with trading if I have to hold cards for a trade for a couple of weeks and they don’t even bother to tell me they are backing out I would rate that as a negative experience. I might not be losing any cards but I am however losing out on other possible trades which I do see as a loss of profit/time. I also know many traders feel the same way as I do on this so perhaps a compromise can be reached. If a trader wishes to back out within the first 72 hours the most that can be left is a neutral ref, however if a trader waits longer than 72 or does not even acknowledge that he/she is backing out than a negative ref can be given. I really think this would go along way to make both sides happy and solving a lot of the upset traders.
I don’t know how plausible it would be but I think it would be cool if there could be some level of distinguish among traders. Like traders with 0-10 Itrader are at a Bronze level, Itraders 11-30 are a Silver, 31-60 are Gold, 61+ is Platinum. Than have special privileges or distinguish based on the levels, like perhaps your trade thread title could be the color of your level or something that stands out. I don’t really know where I’m going with this, I just think it would be cool to see something that would distinguish traders or given them special benefits.
Summary:
In conclusion trading is really great way to get cards you need without having to go out drop money. There are many advantages to trading online such as being able to reach a large group of people in a very short period of time as well as bettering your reputation in the community. Hopefully for those of you who took the time to read this you got some helpful tips about how to stay safe and trade successfully while online. If you could take just a couple quick seconds and click the thank button at the bottom of the page I would really appreciate it. I would like to see how many people I can get thanking this.
