Undersea Ruins vs. Baby Evolution

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by TheDeuce, Jan 12, 2004.

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  1. TheDeuce

    TheDeuce New Member

    Undersea Ruins states: Once during each player's turn (before attacking), that player may flip a coin. If heads, that player chooses 1 of his or her Evolved Pokémon in play and discards the top Evolution card from that Pokémon, devolving it.

    My question is, if you used "Baby Evolution" to evolve Wynaut into Wobbuffet, would you be able to devolve it using Undersea Ruins?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, as long as Wobbuffet is placed on top of Wynaut it's an "evolved" pokémon, but no matter what, it's never an "evolution card". So, according to that, you should be able to choose Wobbuffet when you flip heads, but you technically can't discard the top evolution card from it, so what would be the ruling?
  2. jesschow12

    jesschow12 New Member

    well it already stated EVOLVED!! meaning that the top card is discarded no matter its an evolution card or not
  3. TheDeuce

    TheDeuce New Member

    If it was worded like Retro Energy, and just said to "discard the top card", then I'd agree, but it doesn't say that, it says "discard the top evolution card" and there is no top evolution card. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but do you have a reason to back it up?
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2004
  4. Spectreon

    Spectreon New Member

    The power on Wynaut specifically says it counts as evolving. You would treat Wobbers as an evolved Pokemon, even though it is technically a basic. Anything that effects evolutions will also effect Wobbers now (Shedinga, Retro Energy, Undersea Ruins) since it counts as an evolved Pokemon.
  5. TheDeuce

    TheDeuce New Member

    Okay, I don't think you guys get where I'm coming from with this.

    I already mentioned that I know that Wobbuffet is evolved if Wynaut is under it, but it's still not an evolution card. As far as I know the only way a card can be an "evolution card" is if it says "Stage 1" or "Stage 2", and Wobbuffet is always a Basic pokémon, whether it's evolved or not shouldn't make a difference.

    Retro Energy states to simply discard the top card from an evolved pokémon.

    Undersea Ruins actually specifies to discard the top evolution card from an evolved pokémon, and if there's technically no evolution card there, How do you resolve it?
  6. Spectreon

    Spectreon New Member

    OK< my point was basicall, treat Wobbers as an evolved Pokemon. Same as stuff that lets you put stage 1 fossil Pokemon (Omanyte, Lileep ect....) down as a basic. You ignore the stage 1 part, and treat it as a basic for all intents and purposes. There was an old ruling, useless but funny and interesting. "If you use fossil egg to put a Kabuto/Omanyte down as a basic, can you use a Pokmeon Breeder trainer card to evolve it to Kabutops/Omastar" "Yes." And since Breeder specifically says play on a basic Pokemon, and the text on the fossils say they are stage 1's, this would be very simular.


    Thats all there really is too it I belive....
  7. TheDeuce

    TheDeuce New Member

    Using Breeder to evolve Kabuto into Kabutops is completely different, it actually says on Fossil Egg (or Lileep or whatever...) to "treat Kabuto as a basic pokémon", that line overrides the writing on the card, and Kabuto would then be a basic pokémon.

    Wynaut does not state "Treat Wobbuffet as a Stage 1", it only says that using "Baby Evolution" counts as evolving Wynaut, that does make Wobbuffet an evolved pokémon, but it doesn't make it an evolution card. Wobbuffet is still a basic pokémon card, and Undersea Ruins only lets you remove evolution cards.
  8. Dek

    Dek New Member

    okay, so lets get things straight
    Wynaut- Basic
    Wobbs- Basic
    Undersea ruins- evolution

    TO AN EXTENT, Wobbuffet counts as an evolution card, but it will always be recognized as a BASIC POKEMON. If it says it counts as evolving Wynaut, they probably said that to let people know that evolving a pokemon. It would kind of like what Wally's training says (This counts as evolving that pokemon. just a paraphrase.)

    Overall, the Undersea ruins counts for Stage 1 and Stage 2 because those card are and will always be recognized as evolution cards. Pikachu, Wobbuffet, Marril, and other pokemon that have a baby form that was released in EX-ON are just saying that with this Baby rule, you are doing an everyday evolution, except you remove all damage and special conditions.

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