Unlimited Ratings

Discussion in 'Card of the Day' started by PokePop, May 31, 2010.

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  1. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    I'm seeing a lot of cards just getting an automatic 1/10 rating for Unlimited.
    I think this is a bit of a knee jerk rating and I'm going to ask that if you're just going to rate a card 1/10 for unlimited, just leave Unlimited out of your rating.

    I'll give an example.
    I'm seeing a lot of ratings of 1/10 for Dual Ball.

    Now, I won't argue that there aren't better choices for Unlimited than Dual Ball, but it is not a 1/10 card.
    1/10 means that there are no cards worse than this.
    Poke-Ball, for example, is a worse card.
    I could see Dual Ball as being a playable card. After all, it's pretty good for getting basics and as a Trainer, you can play more Trainers that turn.

    It's certainly no worse than a 4-5/10.

    So, if you can't be realistic in your Unlimited ratings, then please just leave it out.
    Or try to be realistic.
    Remember, a new player might not have to best cards to play, so rating it correctly can be helpful to a new player trying to put together an unlimited deck with limited resources.
  2. TheGeneral

    TheGeneral Active Member

    True. Most don't even know the entire unlimited format to actually rate how good a card is in the unlimited format.
  3. Alazor

    Alazor Active Member

    It's interesting, because in Unlimited a lot of the trainers played just depend on style of play and style of the deck and a lot of cards can serve the same purpose.

    Night Maintenance and Nightly Garbage Run and Town Volunteers...
    Pokemon Retriever and Pokemon Recue and Time Space Distortion...
    Energy Charge and Power Charge and Energy Pick Up...
    Lass, Imposter Professor Oak...
    Switch, Warp Point, Gust of Wind, Double Gust, Pokemon Reversal...
    Digger!, Pokeblower +...
    Computer Search, Oracle, Pokedrawer +...
    Professor Oak's Theory, Professor Elm, Professor Oak's Visit, Cynthia's Feelings, Copycat...
    Holon Mentor, Roseanne's Research, Pokemon Collector, Pokemon Fan Club...
    Super Energy Removal, Super Energy Removal 2, POW! Hand Extension...
    Luxury Ball, Pokemon Communicator, Pokemon Trader...
    Holon Transceiver, Scott, Castaway, Cyrus' Conspiracy...
    Judge, Desert Shaman, Team Galactic's Wager, Looker's Investigation, Rocket's Admin.

    Some trainer cards are definitely better than others, but some of them can serve the same purpose.
  4. Cyrus

    Cyrus Iron Chef - Master Emeritus

    ^This. Although the merits of PokeBall and Dual Ball are subjective, both have seen uses in modified and unlimited that put them outside of the 1/10 category.

    Perhaps the bottom line to this post should be "use your 1/10s sparingly" - there are a LOT of 1/10s in unlimited (over 60% of all cards), but lots of people just mark down 1/10 for no good reason. Explain WHY instead!
  5. Regis_Neo

    Regis_Neo Moderator

    I give my 1/10 ratings on most cards based on the fact that in Unlimited, often that there is a superior card; in the case of Dual Ball, you can easily argue there's a lot of Trainer cards from Base-now that outclass it or mimic it with a more reliable effect. Or another example, no one is going to run Pokemon Reversal when you have Gust of Wind (unless they really really need more forced switches) simply because GoW doesn't require a flip and therefore is 100% reliable; so as a result, I'd designate it a 1/10 for that reasoning. Along the same lines, inherently bad cards in Modified that I'd also give low ratings to usually would have the same extent going into Unlimited, which means they're about worthless. Pokemon for the most part have either a more-used, overall better counterpart when you consider final stages (like Blastoise Base compared to something like Blastoise SW); now an argument here could be made for Basics and Stage 1s (as many don't share a x2 Weakness like their Unlimited counterparts from DP-On and thus could be used as a more survivable filler), but that's about it, and those rarely get reviewed anyways. Trainers, again for the most part have a superior counterpart in Unlimited that just simply beats its own effect since designers these days make effects more restrictive than they were in years past (presumably to limit anything becoming broken), so very few would make an addition to Unlimited; for example, both Luxury Ball and Pokemon Communication (even though Pokemon Communication is a basic clone of Pokemon Trader) I feel would both be worthy in Unlimited decks because they offer great effects and most importantly are quick Trainer cards, not slow Supporters. Rare Candy is also in this vein, as it actually outclasses its predecessor (Pokemon Breeder) by offering more flexibility instead of a restrictive Stage 2 only clause.

    I honestly don't believe new players go into Unlimited much either; when you have a card base that spans over 11 years, with many cards long out of print, you're pretty much relying on what you can pick up through ebay, and making an Unlimited deck can be hard in this way I'd think. Even if you take into account if a player has been in the game for a year or 2 and have some older cards lying around, many decks of choice for that year wouldn't stand much of a chance at all in Unlimited I think; something like Vileplume EX would completely destroy today's LuxChomp due to cutting off pretty much everything in it unless they run Dialga G Lv X, and even then you're talking simply about using GoW to force it up to KO it. Very rarely do you get a strong deck type that would survive a transition into Unlimited (though even here, you can then overhaul its trainer engine with old cards to make it even better).

    Then again, I'm surprised other people actually rate Unlimited, I thought I was the only one who bothered trying to lol. I guess I can put in more effort besides my usual "No use here" comment or something a bit more sarcastic, but really there isn't much to say; for many cards, they have no use in Unlimited I feel due to the other more established decks already out there.

    Anyways, just my thoughts and reasoning. I mean, there aren't a whole lot of people who play Unlimited anyways, and I'm sure fewer still bother reading most of my boring comments on a card XD
  6. Ralts4ever

    Ralts4ever New Member

    When I was new here, I rated 1 because i saw Regis_Neo rate 1. I no longer do that anymore. I know I was a noob. Be quiet.

    But now I rate the unlimited based on my "meta". Which is unlimited. All of it. If it wasn't, last year I would have been running 1-1-1 venasaur. This year i would have been running 1-1-2/1-1 Gardevior Gallade. Unlimited is what keeps me going and I think the people rating it should give it a little credit.
  7. travis3290

    travis3290 New Member

    i think its less of a rating problem and more a problem that almost everyone says the same thing

    "1/10 unlimited - there are better cards here"

    I think if you give it an unlimited rating at least explain in detail.

    thats like me saying luxray gl x 10/10 cause its good.
  8. JPN Gallade

    JPN Gallade New Member

    PokePop, you really did bring up a good point. You really did explain what a 1/10 is supposed to mean; a 1/10 truly means that there are no cards worse than it. The Dual Ball example really shows. Duel Ball isn't a 1/10 really. Personally, I think Great Ball is worse than it, so then the Dual Ball would be given a higher rating.

    I'll remember your advice PokePop. I think you really did bring up a good point. I'll never forget this point whenever I rate a card in an unlimited category.:wink:
  9. Squidwina

    Squidwina New Member

    The existence of a superior card does not mean that a given card is bad. This applies whether rating cards for modified or for unlimited.

    I agree that Pokemon Reversal's rating should be downgraded for unlimited because of the existence of Gust of Wind, but it's still a useful card and should not receive the lowest possible rating.
  10. Regis_Neo

    Regis_Neo Moderator

    Kinda subjective here; if you're not calling a given card bad if there is a superior card that does a given effect better, what do you call it then? Inferior, worse than, etc all connotate the same basic idea: it is bad in that given format. In your example, what would you give Pokemon Reversal then if no one plays it due to Gust of Wind? To me, if no one plays it, it's obviously bad within that format, and thus I'd give it a 1/10. Now to be fair to Pokemon Reversal, I love it in Modified, hence why I give it 7-8/10 easily, even with the flip. But really, what do you rank a card likely most people won't use due to a better card then?
  11. Squidwina

    Squidwina New Member

    I don't know. That's one reason I don't give numerical ratings.

    Inferior does not mean bad. Stouffer's mac and cheese is inferior to my homemade mac and cheese, but it's certainly not "bad." It doesn't mean that nobody should ever eat it. I eat it sometimes because it's easier to nuke some of that than make it from scratch. It's a matter of availability.

    Similarly, Pokemon Reversal is not useless to someone who doesn't have any Gust of Winds. If they are serious about building a great unlimited deck, they'll get their hands on Gust of Wind, but in the meantime, Pokemon Reversal is hardly in the "should never have been printed" category.* Suggesting that it's that bad is doing a disservice to the people who do read your write-ups.

    But in an attempt to answer your question, I suppose I would give it a 3 or 4 for unlimited--low enough to suggest that it's not worth putting in an unlimited deck, but not so low as to say it should never have been printed.

    *For reference: In the FAQ, it says "If you wish to rate the card on a scale, us a scale of 1-10, where 1 is a card that shouldn't have been printed and 10 is card that should have 4 copies in every deck."

    And for what it's worth, I respectfully disagree with the definition of what a 10/10 should be. Because how many cards should be run 4 to every deck? That would disqualify all Pokemon at the very least. I feel that Luxray GL Lv.X is the best card in format, so it would make sense to give it a 10/10, but it doesn't need to be maxed out in every deck. (2-2 in this case)
  12. Xicious

    Xicious New Member

    I could see select decks running 4 copies of Gust of Wind and 2 copies of Pokemon Reversal. So given that can you really rate it 1?

    SPIRE_FAN New Member

    lol good yes but there is gust of wind dont forget just sayin
  14. Ralts4ever

    Ralts4ever New Member

    And I think i have a point to make. Who has these old broken cards?!!? No one today really plays unlimited and no one would still want to hold onto them after like 10 some years. So truth be told, who actually still has Professor Oak?
    The way I see it, really generic cards would get a 1 because they're too boring and not creative in the lest. Cough cherubi AR Cough
  15. Regis_Neo

    Regis_Neo Moderator

    Cough cough...you forget, quite a few people are packrats. In fact, I'm using my old DCEs in my current deck as we speak since I'm too stingy to bother getting new ones. If I didn't have to go through the pain of obtaining erratas and official copies, I'd even use my old Plus Powers.
  16. vegitalian

    vegitalian New Member

    Some may see flippy cards as 1/10 since they take away from the consistency of the deck. Cards like Poke Ball and Life Herb are unplayable to me (placing them anywhere from a 1 to a 3) because I could rarely or never see a situation that I would play them, unlimited or modified.

    Here is the scale I use and an example:

    1: Completely unplayable (Arcanine GS)
    2-3: Near unplayable (Life Herb, Poke Ball)
    4: Rarely playable (Octillery PT, Spiritomb LA)
    5-6: Somewhat playable (Galactic HQ, Unown E)
    7-8: Very playable (Roserade GL, Unown R)
    9: Extremely playable (Luxray GL Lv. X, Jumpluff)
    10: Should be one in every deck (Luxury Ball, Night Maintenance)
  17. Squidwina

    Squidwina New Member

    Now that's a rating scale I can get behind.

    The only comment I would make is to say that 10 should be amended to say "with few exceptions." For example, I haven't seen many Gyarados decks that use Night Maintenance. But you really have to have a very good reason to leave Luxury Ball or Night Maintenance out of a deck.
  18. Ralts4ever

    Ralts4ever New Member

    Yeah, you have a point. I have gotten Mr.Fuji and Pokemon Breeder :p. But DCE has been reprinted and collectors (not the card) would still hold onto them. I myself love the old cards, but being 4 when I got into them, didn't help in the slightest. And losing them on the bus didn't help either -.-. I actually use my old base 2(?) plus power as well. Nobody complained XD. So I guess what I'm trying to say is: Don't rate 1 just because there are cards back in the base set that are to broken to even compare to them.

    Also, I'm still relativity new to this format, lingo, etc. Just check my join date! That's when I got back into the TCG. So I would have never heard of a packrat, even if that makes no sense. ^_^
  19. yoyofsho16

    yoyofsho16 New Member

    What REALLY grinds my gears is when the card being reviewed is a Promo, and every person finds it NECESSARY to put "Limited: NA/10 lol" or "Limited: well i guess this could work in some kind of weird limited where only promos are allowed so im going to waste your time with this sentence."

    If it's non APPLICABLE, then don't APPLY it!

    ---------- Post added 06/24/2010 at 10:18 PM ----------

    When reviewing a card, a hypothetical infinite card pool should be used. I think that giving Pokemon Reversal a 1/10 is justified here.
  20. Sabett

    Sabett Active Member

    Actually, it is applicable. Cube is a format where a previous selected group of cards are used to play in a limited format.
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