US Nationals is now registered for Origins

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Adv1sor, Jan 30, 2004.

8 league13 468 60
  1. Adv1sor

    Adv1sor New Member

    From the Origins web site:
    See you there?
  2. Gym Leader Blaine

    Gym Leader Blaine <a href="

    Thanks for the info :thumb: It sounds like a lot of fun, but wont know till later if I can go or not.
  3. meganium45

    meganium45 Active Member

    Friday??? CHAW, I am putting in my vacation request now.

    Hope to see you all there.

  4. I heard about it too. Im happy and will attend it. Im glad nintendo is making it open. I wont be able to get to a city championship or state championship so it will begood to know ill beable to get into this
  5. Bigpoppabeatdown

    Bigpoppabeatdown New Member

    oh yeah vince.......... the STL team will be represented very nicely, as i hope to go as well
  6. Misdreavus

    Misdreavus Member

    How do you reserve a spot?
  7. Adv1sor

    Adv1sor New Member

    I believe that you have to preregester for an Origins badge, then you can register for the various events.
    (With all payments up front.)
  8. soslowpoke

    soslowpoke New Member

    Good thign my brother's over the age of 8...can't say much for others with young children...
  9. RainbowRichards

    RainbowRichards Active Member

    Is this start time for real???

    T8 wouldn't finish until the next morning...
  10. killa_project

    killa_project New Member

    thats how is was at Gencon last year remember. People weren't finishing until morning like at 3 am.
  11. DaytonGymLeader

    DaytonGymLeader New Member

    GenCon was an abberation. Only 1 event went that late, Team Championships. A more constructed rant is to follow.
  12. RainbowRichards

    RainbowRichards Active Member

    Looking forward to it ;)!
  13. Dayton_Pokémom

    Dayton_Pokémom New Member

    Have you seen Nintendo’s schedule for the whole convention? If you have, why are you not upset about this information - or at least disturbed by some of it? If you haven’t well here it is:

    Thursday June 24th
    12:00 pm

    8152 - Pokémon TCG Modified Tournament (Pokémon TCG)

    2:00 pm

    8161 - Pokémon TCG Unlimited Tournament (Pokémon TCG)

    3:00 pm

    8951 - Pokémon TCG Booster Draft (Pokémon TCG)

    Friday, June 25th

    10:00 am

    8158 - Pokémon TCG Special Sealed Format (Pokémon TCG)

    1:00 pm

    8153 - Pokémon TCG Modified Tournament (Pokémon TCG)

    2:00 pm

    8159 - Pokémon TCG Unlimited Tournament (Pokémon TCG)

    3:00 pm

    8154 - Pokémon TCG Modified Tournament (Pokémon TCG)
    8163 - Pokémon TCG Team Sealed (Pokémon TCG)
    8162 - Pokémon TCG US National Championship (Pokémon TCG)
    8160 - Pokémon TCG Unlimited Tournament (Pokémon TCG)

    Saturday June 26th
    1:00 pm

    8155 - Pokémon TCG Modified Tournament (Pokémon TCG)

    3:00 pm

    8156 - Pokémon TCG Modified Tournament (Pokémon TCG)

    Sunday June 27th

    1:00 pm

    8157 - Pokémon TCG Modified Tournament (Pokémon TCG)

    Go to the Origins website (, Click on Search Events, Select Tradable/Collectible Card Games as the Event Type, and Pokemon TCG as the game system. Then click on the link for each tournament. You will find that in each and every tournament NO ONE under the age of 8 may play in any of the tournaments. What is the logic in this? Over the years I do not know how many kids under the age of 8 I have seen play the game and play it well, even better then some adults. I have seen 5yr olds play with more class, humility and talent then some adults.

    Time slots
    What are they thinking with starting at 12 PM on Thursday and only giving a 1-2 hour time gap? With this schedule players are limited to one tournament for sure and if you are lucky or drop you can get 2 in. There should be a 3 hour gap between tournaments to allow players the optimum chances to play. The 1st Pokémon tournament of the convention should be between 9 and 10 am. This has made many a player happy in the past years. Why change what works?

    On Friday, the only tournament that has a good cushion of time is the 10 am. What is with 4 tournaments starting at 3pm, 2 of which are going to be the most demanding tournaments of the convention? Starting Nationals at 3 PM, Uh Boy. How many people are you going to alienate because they only have 1 day to attend the convention? How many people aren’t going to be able to take off work to go play Pokémon because the biggest “open” event in the US is on a Friday?

    On Saturday the busiest day of the convention there are 2 and only 2 tournaments. What is that all about? This is when Nationals should be and should start at 10 AM and no later then noon.

    Sunday you have only one tournament? If you are only going to have one event on Sunday make it the team starting at 10 am no later then 11am. If not on Sunday then on Friday starting at noon, not registration starting at noon the event starting at noon.

    Judging Staff
    On Thursday you could get away with 3 judges at a minimum. Friday’s judging staff will need a minimum of 14 judges to run all 7 events quasi smooth. Team and Nationals are going to be the heavy hitters in demand for judging. Saturday you could get away with a minimum of 2 judges and one for Sunday.

    The key here is this: Will you find 14 players willing to give up playing in Nationals or Team, which ever was their tournament of choice, to judge an extremely long day? This has been a big issue in the past and only a few have been able to go the distance (long hours) and give up playing one or more days.

    Time allotted for tournaments.
    Unrealistic for all events, 3 hours 45 minutes for a booster draft? If you get more then 12 players, you are not going to finish in the time stated. Now if you get all 48 allotted slots filled, you are looking at a minimum of 4 ¼ hours including the hour for building the deck. Now let’s look at the time for Nationals. There are an allotted 248 slots – most of if not all slots will be filled. This means 10 rounds (9 + 1). Total time for regular Swiss rounds: 5 hours. Now you have to add at least 10 minutes per round to enter scores, print, cursing at the software, etc. We are now up to 6 hours. You will have to give a dinner break due to the late start time - that will need to be no less then an hour. We are now up to 7 hours. This puts us at 10 PM. Add in prize distribution for those who didn’t make the cut, you’re at 11PM. Now the fun starts with Top 8, this isn’t timed. The Judge who is running this monster could be there as late as 2 am or later. Time for the team event is just as late. This is assuming 64 Teams, instead of 64 players, but we’ll do the math for both. 64 Teams equals 7 rounds (6+1). Each round is 50 minutes (we believe). Add 10 minutes per round for admin functions. You’re at 7 hours. Add 1 hour for dinner; you’re at 8 hours with an end time of 11PM. Prize distribution is another 30-60 minutes with a midnight exit time. With 32 Teams, your total run time (6 rounds and lunch break) is 7 hours with a 10PM end time – 10:30 after prize distribution.

    Let’s talk team.
    Players need information about this team sealed like yesterday. There has to be time to learn the rules, build the decks, and test the decks. Players take months to get their decks fine tuned and ready to go.

    This is a lot to take in at one time so I will end now. If I have forgotten something Steve (DaytonGymLeader) will fill that in when he posts.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2004
  14. Adv1sor

    Adv1sor New Member

    I too was surprised to see the eight-year-old rule. Is this something to do with the venue?

    With 248 players you could decide a top 8 in as alittle as five rounds (depending on the number of draws).

    Do you really think that the booster drafts will be all 48 players in one draft pod? I would think that this would be groups of eight in single elimination format. Three rounds max.

    As for team sealed, I'd rather they not say what the decks will be in advance. That way everyone is on even footing and luck and skill both play a big factor in the game.

    Looks like a lot of hard work on POP's side and a lot of fun for us.

    Hope to see you there.
  15. GymLeaderPhil

    GymLeaderPhil New Member

    Okay, I've taken a look at the schedule and quite frankly it sucks. I'm hoping that who ever submitted the event information was working with tentative dates and just entered random numbers, because I can tell you right now that having enough judge staff for Saturday is going to be a problem. I've revised the schedule... maybe it's something someone from PUI would consider switching around to before Origins starts printing their schedule books. But first some basic FAQs dealing with four day conventions:

    -Thursday and Sundays are the slow days. Thursday are plagued with registration problems, locating the hall, etc. Sundays are usually on the edge of a big event from Saturday. Since this isnt the case, Saturday and Sunday are the slow days, with Friday being the busiest.

    -Regarding Friday: Most of the events occuring right after Nationals will just end up being canceled, but remain for those uninterested in Nationals or those who dropped.

    Thursday June 24th
    9:00 am - Pokémon TCG Modified Tournament
    -This is tradition. I remember the being in a hotel room at 1:00 am on Thursday morning for GenCon/Origins deck testing and metagaming. Lots of fun and it allows many to test the format before Nationals.

    11:00 pm - Pokémon TCG Unlimited Tournament
    -Intended to pick up anyone who just walked out of the registration line, bed, or for those who arent Modified-savvy.

    1:00 pm - Pokémon TCG Team Sealed
    -This may take up to five-six hours due to the size of teams, the extra time in rounds, and deck construction time.

    (Pickup Event) - Pokémon TCG Booster Draft
    -Eight people manage to find the hall at 9:15 am? Booster draft!

    Friday, June 25th
    10:00 am - Pokémon TCG US National Championship
    -Three in the afternoon is NOT the best time to hold a large 300+ upwards in attendance tournament with the largest prize of the entire convention on the line. Most of the Pokemon players will be in this tournament, making it ironic how so many other tournaments are planned for Friday and not for the rest of the week. In response to Mom... Origins is also the home to several other big Yu-Gi/DBZ/Magic tournaments on Saturday. Friday is the best bet for some of us who like to play both.

    1:00 pm - Pokemon TCG Unlimited Tournament
    -For those who just dropping out of nationals or just walked in...

    4:00 pm - Pokemon TCG Modified Tournament
    -For those who just dropped out of nationals or just walked in...

    7:00 pm - Pokémon TCG Special Sealed Format (Mutant?)
    -Fun tournament for those who didnt make the top eight cut? (most likely non-sanctioned)

    (Pickup Event) - Pokémon TCG Booster Draft

    Saturday June 26th
    9:00 am - Pokémon TCG Unlimited Tournament

    12:00 am - Pokémon TCG Prerelease
    -I'd imagine looking at the March date for Tean AM Prereleases, there'd be one around July/June. For example, GenCon SoCal had one for Dragons.

    3:00 pm - Pokémon TCG Modified Tournament

    5:00 pm - Pokémon TCG Unlimited Tournament

    (Pickup Event) - Pokémon TCG Booster Draft

    Sunday June 27th
    9:00 am - Pokémon TCG Unlimited Tournament

    12:00 am - Pokemon Team Modified Constructed

    3:00 pm - Pokemon TCG Modified

    (Pickup Event) - Pokémon TCG Booster Draft

    Otherwise, the age restriction needs to be lifted and some official information regarding Origins needs to be posted on
  16. SomethingElse

    SomethingElse Active Member

    adv1sor, i believe it means at least 8 people....
  17. RainbowRichards

    RainbowRichards Active Member

    Well, it says:


    BTW, Great summation on the foibles of the event scheduling Dayton_Pokémom!!

    PUI - have the two big events (Nationals and Team) on Saturday and Sunday, and start them in the morning (10:00 -ish), not simultaneously on Friday evening!!! What are you thinking???
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2004
  18. DaytonGymLeader

    DaytonGymLeader New Member

    Adv1sor, you're view of how tournaments of this scale run is seriously skewed.

    The age restriction has ZERO to do with the venue.


    Round 1 yields 124 winners
    Round 2 yields 62 winners
    Round 3 yields 31 winners
    Round 4 yields 15 winners with one player getting a Bye
    Round 5 yields 8 winners

    Now, if you do this in Age Modified Swiss(as per the event listing), you have to throw in that algorithm. There's no way you can statistically get a clear cut Top 8 in 5 rounds. Granted, you're not going to get 248 players on Friday. Maybe 100 at best, with the majority of those being late additions because they can't get there by 3PM.

    Now, lets look at a 48 player booster draft. You're looking at 6 pods of 8. The inter-pod games are 3 rounds. Timewise you're looking at at least an hour to draft and construct, then 2 hours to play the 3 rounds. Then you have another draft for the Top 6 - someone gets a Bye into the finals - NOT GOOD. You'd have to do another draft for the Top 6, then run 3 more rounds - another 3 hours.

    The only way to fix the above is to do one of two things:

    1 - Bump the max attendance up to 64 players so you'll have 8 players standing after the internal pod games

    2 - Drop the pod size down to 6 players per pod so you have 8 pods, but you're going to run into someone BYEing into the final for their pod, which isn't a good thing.

    However, this draft is going to be run Age Modified Swiss. That means that all of your counter drafting is now in the toilet. You're going to be playing people outside of your draft pod and will have ZERO idea what they've drafted.

    The schedule that Phil lays out is pretty close to ideal. I'd move Nationals to Saturday with an 11AM start and push the pre-release to the early event on Sunday.

    Your optimal event schedule should be:

    Thursday - events start at 9AM with an event running every 3 hours until your last event starts at 6PM (that's 4 events on the day with a judging crew of 1-2)

    Friday - replicate Thursday

    Saturday - Your largest event kicks the day off around 10-11AM. You also have events running later in the day starting 2 hours after tha main event with the 3 hour separation between them for those folks who showed up late or drop out of the large event. Staffwise, you're going to need at least 4-5 judges (depending on how many you're expecting) for the large event and 1-2 judges for the other events that will run throughout the day.

    Sunday - This is your wind-down day. Only 2-3 events this day with the 3 hour separation. The halls usually close at 6PM, so everything should be completed by then.

    This is close to the formula that's been used for the last 2 years with ZERO complaints. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    By the way, I've worked to 3 of these monsters already. I know how they run, I'm pretty familiar with the logistics. My wife, Dayton_Pokemom, is as well. We've given up several hundred playing opportunities, not just for Pokemon, but for other games as well (HP, Hero Clix, MechWarrior, Magic, etc) to make sure these events go off with as few snags as possible. My wife's job is harder - she keeps track of our daughter and keep all of us fed, watered and do what needs to be done. Deciding what you want to play in is part of the convention experience.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2004
  19. Dayton_Pokémom

    Dayton_Pokémom New Member

    NO, this has nothing to do with the venue. This is decided by those running the tournament.

    If it was single elimination, yes it would be over quickly. Following the rules for Age Modified Swiss there is no way you can cut to top 8 in 5 rounds with a clear cut. Draws do not happen till usually the last 3 rounds of Age Modified Swiss. In order to reach top 8 in 5 or less rounds you would have to have 16 or less players in this event. Now lets be realistic, there are going to be more then 16 players for Nationals.

    I never said that all 48 players would be in one draft pod. I understand how draft pods and draft tournaments work. According to what information is posted about the event it is not single elimination. It will be a max of 48 players all playing in one age modified Swiss tournament. You have to do more than 3 rounds otherwise you have 6 players after your internal pod matches who are all in 1st place. There are no tie breaker points in single elim. For those 6 players you would have to redraft, pair and have a bye into the final and it still would not happen in just 3 rounds.

    I understand there are MANY MANY games played at Origins. I am also very familiar with the concept of having to decide what game to play or to not play at all.
    This should be a Saturday event. Moving it to earlier on Friday really isn’t the answer, IMO. If they do not put the Team on Sunday at 10 am then moving it to Friday 10AM would be another solution.

    Thank you! :)

    Steve and I are looking forward to going to a convention where we will not only be working but will have time to play. Blondie is looking forward to this also.

    Last edited: Feb 1, 2004
  20. RainbowRichards

    RainbowRichards Active Member

    Saturday Nationals, Saturday Nationals!!!

    sorry, did I say that out loud??

    Now there's a concept - you and Steve playing vice judging! :D
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2004

Share This Page