Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Virbank City Gym not in play, but thought it was

Pokealjovin

Administrator
We had a special situation yesterday. It's in a casual tournament, but involves 2 juniors that have been playing in 4 cities, they both know each others and are planing on going to all tournaments until World.

So here is the situation:

At some point Virbank City Gym was in play, but was removed.

They continued playing until the end, thinking that Virbank was in play, thus assigning 2 extra damage to the opponent, using Toxicroack EX's Triple poison, 50 damages between turns.

When they ended the game, they've realized that Virbank was no longer in play.

The player who "won" at that point was the player who had put (and used) Virbank for the last 4 to 6 turns, knocking out 2 EX.

I'm not sure if I would call it a "Game play error - Major" or "Game play error - Severe". Major, as it is akind to "forgetting to put damage between turns to poisoned Pokémon", but it could be argued that it could be Severe, as it's impossible to repair the game state, not knowing how many damages were done because of that error.

So, I'm asking you, how would you have judged it?
 
We had a special situation yesterday. It's in a casual tournament, but involves 2 juniors that have been playing in 4 cities, they both know each others and are planing on going to all tournaments until World.

So here is the situation:

At some point Virbank City Gym was in play, but was removed.

They continued playing until the end, thinking that Virbank was in play, thus assigning 2 extra damage to the opponent, using Toxicroack EX's Triple poison, 50 damages between turns.

When they ended the game, they've realized that Virbank was no longer in play.

The player who "won" at that point was the player who had put (and used) Virbank for the last 4 to 6 turns, knocking out 2 EX.

I'm not sure if I would call it a "Game play error - Major" or "Game play error - Severe". Major, as it is akind to "forgetting to put damage between turns to poisoned Pokémon", but it could be argued that it could be Severe, as it's impossible to repair the game state, not knowing how many damages were done because of that error.

So, I'm asking you, how would you have judged it?

Hello Pokealjovin,

In regards to classifying the penalty, don't get too caught up in classifying a penalty a certain way just to get to a penalty you think is appreciate to fix the error. Go in order than escalate/deescalate when circumstances warrant.

Which of the six infraction types are you dealing with: Game Play
What is the severity level of the error: Major ("Forgetting to place damage counters on a Pokémon from a mandatory effect, such as Poisoned" is clearly listed as GPE Minor)
Now what is the recommended starting penalty: Warning at Tier 1, PL at Tier 2
NOW what circumstances warrant the penalty to go up/down: Multiple turns passing made the "Major" error give a big advantage to one side, escalating from the starting point might be needed

Questions, what was the current game state like? Did both players pick up their cards? Was match slip signed? If matchslip was signed, the players agreed on the winner, judge can not do anything now

If cards are still on the table...

When and how did Virbank leave play? How many turns passed since Virbank left play? How many N's and other supporters that mess with the hands were played?
 
If the game was picked up, then there is literally nothing we can do. If the cards were on the table still, so a judge can access the situation, then the obvious questions will be asked. How was the stadium removed, and who was placing the poison damage? I slightly find it hard to believe that 4-6 turns went by without realizing the stadium is gone.
Definitely a failure to maintain gamestate, but I am not sure as to what degree without the additional information I have asked.
 
If the game was picked up, then there is literally nothing we can do. If the cards were on the table still, so a judge can access the situation, then the obvious questions will be asked. How was the stadium removed, and who was placing the poison damage? I slightly find it hard to believe that 4-6 turns went by without realizing the stadium is gone.
Definitely a failure to maintain gamestate, but I am not sure as to what degree without the additional information I have asked.

I would disagree with "there is nothing we can do" a bit here.

Yes, if the game is picked up and reported, then the result of that game has been decided and cannot be rewound. However, judges still need to analyze this situation and discuss if a penalty has been earned (I would say yes) - and what the penalty is (T1 - Warning, T2 - Prize Loss) - and whether it should be escalated. To determine escalation, you can ask more questions of the players... Who removed or replaced the stadium? What was the additional status of the game (would the other player have won in another turn - that is did the "winning" player gain a significant advantage, or did it just accelerate an already "won" game?).

Regardless of the decision here, the penalty is still applied - if a Warning, written up as a Warning for that Round. If Prize Loss or above, written up and assessed in the next Round of play. In both cases (particularly with Juniors who are sometimes a bit foggy when relating the story to their parents ;) ) you should be sure to explain to both players what will happen and how the penalty was earned. If the penalty is escalated (and/or this is a T2 event) I would advocate keeping an eye out for the children(s)' parents to let them know the ruling and understand what happened in the game.
 
I disagree with penalizing something that was brought to the attention of the judges after the game was picked up if it was only gameplay error. Because as a judge, we need to view the gamestate to make a decision, then we access the penalty earned. Whats to stop players from accusing their opponent of shady play after every game that is picked up? Now, we can listen to the grievance, and then watch that player to see if it happens again, but if that game was picked up and a slip signed, then our hands are tied
 
Well, if both players agree that the error occurred, then it can be addressed, but there is really not enough info here to make any kind of determination.
What was the game state of the Prize count at the time that the error started happening?
How many turns was extra damage applied and how many Pokemon were KO'd / Prizes taken as a result of that recurring error?
Do both players agree on this or is there a dispute?

Even if there is a lot of agreement, then the "best" outcome that could be obtained would probably be a Double Game Loss.
But if there is not a lot of agreement, then Warnings/Prize Losses for failure to maintain game state might be recorded, but won't change the outcome of the match.
 
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