People that are going for the grinder do not go with the exceptaions of making it in go simlpy with the idea of playing, even the best players in the game could in up with a bad match up or a bad hand, and if your going with a group of nine or more you will not all make it becuase nine is more than eight, it was said earlier and I will say it again post grinder depression will hit hard and I will only carry one person back to there room not two, not three, one and if they start throwing up, they are on there own.