Where's My Phione (and others)?

Discussion in 'TCG News & Gossip Discussion' started by eriknance, Jan 25, 2008.

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  1. eriknance

    eriknance New Member


    So we’ve already seen a bit of what to expect from our DP4 set, and I have to say that I am very disappointed. According to certain sources, it looks like our set will be completely absent of such wonderful cards as Omastar, Kabutops, Phione, the legendary birds, Call Energy, and the Eeveelutions. Not only that, we’ve also seen pictures of both Garchomp Lv.X and Porygon Z Lv.X, both of which have yet to be released in anywhere but Japan. I want to address this observation from a few different viewpoints, as well as raise questions that others can possibly answer.

    From the competitive player’s point-of-view, this decision to cut cards is met with general frustration. Acknowledging the fact that the Japanese players have a much larger cardpool from which to construct a deck, we have seen the number of creative and strategic decks elsewhere in the world dwindle. Our format was at one time saturated with creative deck choices – decks successfully functioned off of strategies such as damage spread, damage output, special condition infliction, stalling (as in Polistall or Grumpig-stall), the “kamikaze” method (think of FRLG Electrode ex), trainer locks, stadium locks, speed, etc. Now, however, what we mostly see are decks that function almost entirely on damage output. One can argue that current strategies differ a bit, but in comparison to what this wonderful game used to have things are very stale. Many competitive players were ready to welcome the aforementioned new cards, but it looks like they’ll have to wait yet again.

    Whoever’s decision it was to cut the cards from the new set obviously underestimates the power that a single card has to change the Pokemon TCG. Think about how the current modified format is different because of the absence of single cards; without cards such as Holon Transceiver, Rocket’s Admin, Rainbow Energy, Swoop! Teleporter, etc., this game is obviously different. I was personally looking forward to being able to set up Stage 2 decks other than Gardy/Gallade with such cards as Call Energy and Phione, but that hope is quickly diminishing. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure our DP4 set will change the game, but it should be kept in mind that every card counts, and many of the new strategies that people were looking forward to for so long will have to be put on hold.

    From the casual player’s point-of-view, this decision is probably a little agitating. I know I’m not the only one who likes to see new Pokemon released in card form, and I was looking forward to getting my hands on the new Eeveelutions (even if I never played with them competitively). If you’re a big fan of fossil Pokemon or the legendary birds, it looks like you’ll be waiting as well. Many casual players are also proud to run decks that involve offbeat strategies, which – just from personal playtesting and general observation – many of the cards cut from the set supported.

    The question that has been lurking around in my mind since reading about this decision is WHY? The Japanese DP5 set seems to be on some kind of delay, which could be an underlying reason for why cards were cut. During the delay that we would experience, those cards could be used to make up another set and hold us over until our version of DP5. However, this delay seems to me like the perfect time for the rest of the world to catch up to Japan. The answer to all of this isn’t too difficult or profound – simply release DP4 to the rest of the world without cutting cards and use the DP5 delay to reintroduce a bunch of cards into the format that Japan currently has the opportunity to play with (including alternate art if possible). This was done before with Power Keepers, so why not do it again? Promos from Japan could also fill in a bunch of gaps in the set, that way we wouldn’t get another POP set like POP6, and the entire thing can be called “Legendary Recollections” or something like that – doesn’t matter to me. This would help the rest of the world catch up to Japan, and when Worlds 2008 came about there wouldn’t be such a huge gap between the Japanese metagame and everywhere else. Not only that, the game itself would shift to something more representative of what it actually is in Japan. I’ve expressed my own distaste with the fact that we’re practically playing a game of chess with missing pieces, and I’ve read and heard plenty of concern from other players about our current format. This would be a great way to correct and rejuvenate our current modified format.

    Just for the record, if this whole idea is already in plan (that is, if the cards we’re having cut now are going to be combined with reprints for a next set), I still have to express my dissatisfaction with the fact that it’s taken so long for our format to become somewhat respectable again. After having to play for an entire season without acceptable hand disruption (Rocket’s Admin.), I’ve been disappointed recently with what I consider to be very poor choices in the management of the game. Many people were upset with the rotation of Legend Maker, and I’ve joined that group. Imagine what our format would be like if Banette ex, Mew ex, Cursed Stone, or Flygon ex were still playable? Gardy/Gallade might not have taken about 70% of the CC wins this year, and many people wouldn’t feel the need to gripe about Absol as much. I was also let down by POP6, which included nothing but reprints of cards that were already in our format (compare that to some of the other POP sets that included decent cards in addition to reprints of rotated cards).

    I know many will view this post as nothing more than sour grapes, but understand that I have waited since Rocket’s Admin. was rotated for our format to shape up again. My frustration doesn’t stem from playing poorly this season (check my signature), it stems from pure boredom with the game. It’s not just cards that are being cut, and it’s not just a lack of reprints, it’s entire ideas, strategies, and playstyles that are being silenced.

    … Discuss…
  2. aade8

    aade8 New Member

    I can accept that GE won't have some of the cards we were looking forward to, but I'm with eriknance in that I'd like to know WHY we continue to lag behind Japan in our cardpool.

    I believe that Japan has a certain right to get new cards and use them before we do, as the game did originate there, but the size of the time-lag between what they're getting and when we get the same thing is getting me concerned.

    So, as I agree with nance, WHY are we waiting? If there is a good reason that PUI has, I would be content with them just telling us that 'we have a good reason, and you will see it soon'. That in itself would promote excitment as to what's coming next. But they aren't, and the loyal players are being left in the dark (which is PUI's right, but I don't think it is a good idea).
  3. Scizor

    Scizor New Member

    Looks like the same story to me. Metanite dominates everything up until Regionals where a number of other things are tried. DP comes along, Infernape dominates BRs and then a # of crazy decks are brought up for Nats and Worlds.

    Now we have Gardy/Gallade dominating up through States and we'll see what happens at Regionals. DP5 looks like it'll be one of the best sets ever with the holding back of so many cards and will probably produce another crazy Nationals.

    It's tiring that a majority of the great cards are being delayed. Virtually the same format for 4 event series is dull.
  4. toxictaipan

    toxictaipan New Member

    I don't see WHY this is either, and another thing I don't get is WHY is or modified format different then theirs? It makes no since to have the Japanese playing FR/LG-on and us HP-on. I have to ask WHY must we have a different format, is there a special reason? Personally I would love a little creativity I like reptiles and Celebi being my fave Pokemon, makes since that I would build my first D/P MT deck Terrabi. But it was destroyed by Infercatty. I could not walk into Battle Roads with my fave deck just because almost every one was playing Infercatty. (Or I could but basicly be garenteed an automatic lose for the tourny.) The wait for new format breaking cards is just about being to long for me!
  5. Mew

    Mew New Member

    Well, the first delay was to even up our Palkia/Dialga/Darkrai realease with the airing of the same movie in the US.

    Then Japan doesn't get DP5, so we need to cut cards to fill the gap.

    But if they would just cut some different cards...
  6. Broccili_ Boy

    Broccili_ Boy New Member

    PUI Hates us
  7. toxictaipan

    toxictaipan New Member

    Swift Empoleon is looking like a delayed deck, shoot! Heck all the good new decks are looking delayed. Now what am I going to use for states? At least tell me that mawile is still in there (PLEASE!).
  8. KingOfKings715

    KingOfKings715 New Member

    im okay with what they cut, the fossils seemed a little too strong anyways no biggie, i would have been super **** if they cut pachirisu and claydol with the fossils. Phione is decent but pachirisu being cut would have been awful.

    Your right though the format is so stale. Yes usually u do have like 1 dominate deck this early on but even metanite wasnt this dominate like gardy gallade is now. Also we had so many options at that time well now its just awful. We should catch up with japan and play in their format but there is no money in that.
  9. chriscobi634

    chriscobi634 New Member

    Actually last year there were a few other decks besides Metanite at CCs. Delta was still pretty good and so was Bandoom. The metagame last year was revolved around those 3 decks.

    BUT this year the format revolves around 1 deck. If a deck is build to counter G/G it usually have a bad matchup against Magmortar which is the second most popular deck, IMO. Magmortar still has about a 45-55 or 40-60 (depending what your running your Magmortar with) vs. G/G. So even that deck isn't a valuable choice.

    I keep running reasons in my head on why PUI would do something like this. None of them really seem to make sense. Here are a few of my thoughts if anyone cares to read:

    1.) PUI has already sold off all the FRLG and on to the merchants (Target, Walmart, etc.). so they could care less about whether new players got those cards or not. So being that the merchants too have already sold MOST of those products then there is no real reason to go back to it. Hence the reason we don't go back to that format.

    2.) PUI could also careless about E-Bay where is a few of competetive players get their cards from. PUI cares about the sales from the merchants so they want to keep them happy. If Walmart or Target aren't getting good sales from Pokemon cards then what's the reason to carry them in the first place. So PUI doesn't care about us, the competetive pool of players. They care about the 8-13 year olds who go with their moms to those stores, and beg their parents to buy them the new Lucario tin (just an example).

    3.) This now kind of relates to post 2. Now there are collectors who also buy the tins, promos and what not from Target/Walmart. But those same collector will spend a huge dose of money trying to get cards that are released in Japan but not in the US. Where do they get those cards from? Ebay, and other internet website. So does it involve PUI, no. So does PUI care, NO.

    I have talked to quite a few competetive players around my area. Most of them hate this format, most have expressed to me how they won't care about this season until something good comes out. Which from what we've seen and heard won't be until about six months from now. Sure those players including myself will go to premier tournaments just because we like/love POKEMON too much. Do we like/love PTCG? IDK.

    POP 6 also made very little sense. Why realize a set with just new images? We the competetive players could care less about images. We care about attacks, strategies, combos and all those kind of things. I believe the POP sets are made for the competetive players (please correct me if I'm wrong on this assumption), since we are actually the ones who go to league. But with POP set like those what is a good reason to go to league? You could just sit at home and apprentice a much larger player pool. We already pretty much know what the metagame is going to be like when we go to the premier tournaments so going to league makes very little sense. Surely, you could go to league to see all your Poke buddies. But you could do that whether league was there or not.

    P.S. I know I speak for everyone when I say this: Please PUI try to help us out by keeping good/INTERESTING cards in the format.
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2008
  10. Let Fire Fall

    Let Fire Fall New Member

    I don't get what PUI is doing. Instead of making a better format as they gain experience, they progressively get worse and worse.

    I wonder if they even know how much players hate this format. If they just took 2 seconds to look at the Gym of the Beach they could see nobody is happy with their products. I mean, this is a business after all.
  11. TheDarkTwins

    TheDarkTwins Active Member

    First off, I agree with you Erik, or atleast on most of your points.

    Anyone who says why did POP/PUI do this doesnt know that they have restrictions put on them by PCL. While some choice they maybe able to choose on their own, I would bet that most of the stuff they come out with has to do with if PCL is okay with it.

    I am disappoint more than anything else that Phione isnt in the set.

  12. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Pre-Releases start next week, revealing a few brand new legendary pokemon we've never seen before. We originally thought that we didn't get Darkrai in DP3 because it was being pushed back to coincide with the movie. Now, we still don't have a release date for the movie with Darkrai in it, and Nintendo is unveiling Darkrai to the world in a week. This seems rather weird, and nothing like what happened with Celebi and the push back of Legend Maker.

    On topic of Legend Maker, let's remember that Legend Maker was supposed to come before all this Delta stuff but it was pushed back. So maybe the reason it was rotated out was because it might conflict with the japanese order. I don't see how, since they have a different format, but that information could be the stepping stone to the real answer.

    Do people expect our sets to be fixed by DP5? I don't. We have so many lv.Xs and cards coming out in Japan that we don't have, that it'd be impossible for us to catch up with Japan with another set after this one. PUI/POP would have to do things they've never done before like print lv.Xs in POP sets or put more than 3 lv.Xs in a set to even get us closer to getting caught up.

    Why are we not catching up is a good question. I really don't know. I also really don't know why Darkrai was pushed back. There are a lot of questions that we don't have answers for, in which many players deem important.
  13. chriscobi634

    chriscobi634 New Member

    Your not the only one.

  14. DarkJake

    DarkJake New Member

    I have to agree; this format is pretty fruity. I'm extremely appalled by Great Encounters, they practically dissected the heart, stomach, brain, and liver too of the beast, leaving maybe the kidney (Pachirusu, Wailord, Porygon Z) behind. My bad analogy aside, I don't think anyone is blaming PUI/PCL here...I mean sure ultimately it's their choice that did this, but even if they are restricted by some divine right (strong enough to prevent Phione? eh...) that still shouldn't disable us, the players, from voicing our opinion.
  15. moza

    moza New Member

    Phiona is in the highest room in the tallest tower in the worst-locationed castle.

    I suspect Phione is in a chinese POW camp.
  16. vanderbilt_grad

    vanderbilt_grad New Member

    I really don't have the experience of all the previous formats. I'm still fairly new to the PTCG, having only started last season but I've got to say that I totally don't understand why we have a different format than Japan. The slice and dice approach to Japan's DP3/4/5 grates on me too. Business wise I can guess why it might have been done this way ... steadier cash streams ... not making folks wait for a long time with NO new cards ... the fact that making a total reprent set like PK is HARD and then has to be filtered back to Japan.

    Still the more the international meta drifts from the Japanese game the worse things will get IMHO. The sets are designed with their meta in mind and that's what we ought to be playing too.
  17. Absolution

    Absolution New Member

    First off I'd just like to say, excellent post erik, I agree with you on all points.

    If cards are being cut from GE, I'm going to be extremely disappointed, since this gap between sets has felt like a near-eternity. I say this after having played in a multitude of cities where deck-choices were very bland and vanilla, and I never really got comfortable with any of them. This season I've found myself borrowing decks/deck ideas from people, not out of laziness, but only for convenience's sake. The only things viable are things people are already playing/have already thought up. In seasons past, I'd always be able to exercise my creative muscle and play something rogue, or at least, play something mainstream with a twist in the form of interesting TeCH [which is virtually non-existent in our format right now!].

    I hate to say it, but creativity is always at its peak around the time of Regionals. However, I don't feel we should have to suffer through a monotonous season up until that point; Japan's cardpool allows for so many more options I can only imagine what our player base could come up with for competitive play. With cards like Swoop! and Pow! in the format it could drastically change how our metagame would shape up.

    In short, we need to petition a fix to the way our modified is shifting, or more and more players will grow bored with this game. [It's already happening to me!]
  18. Rainbowgym

    Rainbowgym Active Member

    Looks to me GE is the "filler" set and we will get a good set after this "filler".
    For players outside North America it's even worse if also Phione/Claydoll are not in this set.
    We most likely have to play our Nationals with HP-GE, can you imagine what will happen.
  19. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    ....I see a future of G&G and Magmortar...

    ...I'm sorry, I am SO sorry.../doctor who
  20. Rainbowgym

    Rainbowgym Active Member

    Yes we have looked in the same crystal ball I think.
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