Where's My Phione (and others)?

Discussion in 'TCG News & Gossip Discussion' started by eriknance, Jan 25, 2008.

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  1. ixidor89

    ixidor89 New Member

    If all cards were released in sync, I highly doubt that we'd be looking to Japan to come up with ideas for us. If anything, the Japanese would probably be paying more attention to us to netdeck what's winning here. There is nothing special about the Japanese. They are not a society of pokemon-card-playing geniuses, and they are not going to go super-saiyan on you if you knock out their pikachu.
  2. toxictaipan

    toxictaipan New Member

    At least you got what I'm trying to say..... I don't see why people have such a problem with other people making since.

    Nevermore, our card pool sucks. And by "easier" I ment that our spoilers would be correct, and that no one could fuss about anything Pokemon unless it really needed to be fixed. If we had the same cards as Japan then no one here would be fussing about anything contained in the last 62 posts.
  3. ShadowCard

    ShadowCard Active Member

    wow. Yes, all the P-TCG world looks to the Americans to create tournament calliber decks for them to netdeck :nonono: .

    oh no, something did not go according to plan. How will we ever adapt? :nonono:
  4. drrty byl

    drrty byl New Member

    I'm still fairly new to this game, so I'm not sure how much better or worse the release gap has been prior to last season's format. Here is a level-headed observation made with the ignorance of a competitive n00b regarding the set gap about a month ago:

    Would the continuous release of sets in English and other languages (fully intact and in step) after they are released in Japan simplify the game for everyone, Japan included? Yes. Would this aid in legitimizing the worldwide-competitive aspect of the game? Of course. Will it ever happen? Probably not; there is obviously predicated manipulation by the powers that be to stage manage the rest-of-the-world format with the release of every set to "improve" the game. I suspect part of this improvement is genuine concern for enrichment of the metagame. A considerable portion of this "improvement" is of course profit-motivated. While translating and laying out some 130+ highly specific playing cards into multiple languages is by no means a trivial task, standardizing the releases would cut out a great deal of the format "improvement" work, which would likely reduce some overhead. It's clear that the company is over-thinking the re-release of sets and that it is having a negative effect on the game abroad. It's also possible that this over-management of releases may be related to a much broader justification inherent to internal PUI-Pokemon JP politics.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2008
  5. eriknance

    eriknance New Member

    Judging by your earlier posts, I'm going to consider this as sarcasm. I'd still like to address what you said though, and hopefully I'll do it in an unbiased way.

    I understand what you're saying; I mean, I get it. Lawman said nearly the same thing in an earlier post about how we as Pokemon TCG players should be able to adapt to whatever is set before us. We've already proven that we can do such a thing, as we went an entire season without hand disruption (to which I addressed as well here). However, ask me if I enjoyed that season, and I'll firmly tell you NO. For me, it wasn't fun. I didn't feel like using either Vaporeon ex or PK Metagross ex, so I had no way of stopping my opponent from having a 20+ card hand the entire game. Because of the lack of that one card I didn't even play competitively that season (I didn't win a single tournament at all).

    We as players of this game can look at the situation in two different ways. We can easily adopt the "just deal with it" attitude and accept whatever they give us. It's not that difficult to adapt to something, especially since everyone's having to do the same thing. In fact, it can even create some interesting scenarios for players to overcome. Last season many decks were constructed with Vaporeon ex in them to counter the lack of soft hand disruption.

    My argument though is simple: why should the game be this way? That's not how Japan plays it, so what we get is essentially a watered-down version of a brilliant game. I told a friend about how Japan gets to use FRLG-DP4 cards, and his reaction was, "Well no wonder so many people play Pokemon over there." If we can have an alternative to the way things are right now -- that is, if we can open up the cardpool in other places than Japan and get caught up with their format -- why not take it? Weird things have happened because of our overlapping cardsets, or because of rotations. Why not avoid that problem and go with a different plan?

    I for one will voice my opinion about this format and try to find a way to fix it. I think that just by creating this thread I've attracted the ears of others who really could change things. And again, I'm not complaining that we can't adapt -- I've certainly shown that good players can adapt to a changing format. I'm simply voicing my opinion about what I've seen as bad decisions made recently about what cards we get to use and what cards we can't. I've also been pretty quiet about things as well, waiting very patiently for our format to fix itself. But after the season of no disruption it was Legend Maker getting cut, then it was a bad rotation where almost everything before DP sets were outdated (and still are), then a useless POP set, then a delay in Garchomp Lv.X, and now a delay in even more cards (cards which, in my opinion, would have really changed the format). I'm getting a bit impatient now, and I'm getting agitated that it's affecting the deck choices and playstyles of many good players (I even had to resort to playing Mario to win a couple of Battle Roads -- it wasn't fun).

    You seem fine with whatever our format brings us, and that's not a problem. I'm just giving this thing a try, and I'm hoping that maybe something good will come out of it so that I won't have to play tournaments with decks that I don't like anymore (Mario, Gardy/Gallade) in a format that I don't like anymore. :frown:
  6. Dom

    Dom New Member

    I missed a bit of the info when it first came out. Do we actually KNOW Pachirisu is definitely in the set?
  7. ixidor89

    ixidor89 New Member

    Of course they don't, because the P-TCG world should obviously look to the Japanese for tournament calliber decks to netdeck.:rolleyes:
  8. TheDarkTwins

    TheDarkTwins Active Member

    There is a chance that Porygon-Z Lv. X might be in the US DP5 set. Which would be in May or so.

  9. master of puppets

    master of puppets New Member

    yes it is,

    im am so sick of us being so far behind the japanese.
    then they also can use firered and leafgreen and up, thats really unfair.
    theyve got 9 (i think) sets on us right now. they have so much more of a card base than we do that its rediculous.

    if we had that same format as them we would have so many different options for us.
    sure most everyone would still be playing the holons poop engine (not I) and we would still have to deal with the likes of LBS and other such scary things, but there would be so may viable options that are all on par with eachother that gallade wouldnt be the only thing around.
    then we would be seeing LBS, queendom, metanite, rockets decks, gallade, magmortar, blissey, flytech, banette ex, absolutions, just so many different things, and they would all (or most) be on the same level as one another.

    and when there was a hard match up you could TECH against it!
    there arnt techs anymore to help out against bad match ups or for the old switch-a-roo, nothing like that. the closest thing ive played lately to having a tech is duskqueen.
    sure you can try different stuff with the likes of gallade, but not really a 'tech' like what latios* was in metanite, or what the whole point of flytech was, that had delta mew, dark deoxys, mew*, it was a tech in itself!

    we would still have fun skillfull cards like admin, pow!, suprise!, and swoop!.
    pidgeot would be around but there would be enough options to counter it (and anything else) that it wouldnt matter.
    and it wouldnt be such a pain in the but to play EX's.

    personaly i think that would make the game a lot more fun.
  10. Mew

    Mew New Member

    Yes. This is a quality post.
    But I think this is self-contradictory to what PUI is trying to acheive. And that is the constant flow of money.

    In Japan. people still buy the new sets, but they don't have to. Here if you don't keep up with the rotations you can't play the game. With decks like LBS and Rock-Lock still performing relatively well in Japan, they can play without ever buying cards (other than some staple trainers).
  11. aade8

    aade8 New Member

    I would agree. I just wonder if they ever think about the following:
    1. Some people will not be able to keep purchasing box after box, pack after pack of cards. Eventually, even though their love of Pokemon still exists, they may be forced to leave the game. Since this could be applied to MANY people, this would create a profit cut (minor, but still a cut). If we would have a wider card pool (like Japan with FRLG-on) so many more players would be able to enjoy the game.
    2. Good players who have been with the game through good and bad may get tired of poor decisions on set contents and what sets to include in the Modified format. Some may stick it through, but others will leave. Again, small cut in profit, but still a cut which may grow after a time. I mean people say that what is happening in Japan is totally not relevant to what's going on here, but maybe we should look again. Pokemon is STILL big there after 10+ years of ongoing popularity, while Pokemon actually died for a time here in America. Are they doing something different somehow? I wonder....
  12. ShadowCard

    ShadowCard Active Member

    So what's the problem now? Why were you able to prove you were adaptable in the past but not now?

    That sounds like you were unsuccessful at adapting while others were successful, or that you were even refusing to adapt (and it sound slike the latter). Don't take this the wrong way, but so what that you didn't win a single tournament. A lot of people don't. I realize you're an excellent player and are known for it too, and I have been priviledged to have a game against you in the past, but whether or not you are able to win a tournament does not define whether or not the tournament format is good. This sounds like you were cutting off your nose to spite your face if you stayed out of competitive play because of the absence of a single card. The game has seen instances where hand distruption did not exist or wasn't played; it should not be expected that we will always have it or that it will be in a preferable form.

    Okay, a serious topic. I think this goes back into marketing. At the store where I run league, they refuse to have regular supply of any set before Diamond and Pearl. I go to target: they do not have a regular stock of Holon Phantoms, Crystal Guardians, Dragon Frontiers. The thing about retail is that they dont like carrying legacy product - it just doesn't sell. At the store where I run league, there is a supply of Dragon Frontiers and Power Keepers (but not regularily stocked) and it simply does not sell. And those sets are in the Modified format. That leads into...

    Pokemon has always been friendly to new players to come into the game without having to worry about getting ambushed by old cards. One reason for a yearly rotating modified format is so that newer players are able to come into this game without having to worry about cards from 2 years ago. If our format matched Japan's, not only would players have to worry about cards from 2 years ago but they'd also won't be able to buy them because no retail place in their right mind wants to regularily stock them because the product just doesn't move very well (and new players are not likely to buy from the internet). Maybe that's not true in Japan, but selling patterns are different. What may be a success in Japan can completely flop outside of it, and vice versa.

    Aside from marketting, another reason for a yearly rotating modified format is to cycle out old ideas so players can come up with new ideas from new cards. Personally, I'm glad that Blastoise ex, Steelix ex, Mew Ex, Dark Dragonite, Ludicolo, Dark Tyrannitar are out of the format, and I know others will agree with me. I know people who'd still be playing Dragtrode and Mewtrick - I'd even still be playing Exeggutor. It isn't friendly on new players to have to face decks from two years ago. One of my leaguers in this thread said she didn't know what RAMBO is. I recall someone, I think Mike Liesik, saying that the POP staff was happy to see the dismemberment of the Holon engine from the Modified. Soon, saying "holon engine" will get followed by questions of "what's that?" So, the yearly rotating modified format works. You're tired of seeing Gardevoir/Gallade? Well those cards are the Blaziken ex, Gardevoir ex, Steelix ex, of our time.

    An alternative to your idea: it does not sound like you want to campain for a FRLG-On format, especially since a lot of your examples are in the form of poor hand disruption mechanics, but rather that POP opt to reprint cards in the POP series. Just because you want to see Rocket's Admin back doesn't mean allowing TRR back in the Modified is the way to do it.

    This sounds like an instance of playing with cards that have not been released. If you stopped counting your chickens before they hatch and instead focus on what you do have, you could have come up with other ideas besides Mario. Like I said above, you have a reputation for being good and therefore have the ability to mold what the people around you play. Use that influence to be more inventive. And, similar to what I said above, what you think you are forced to play does not define whether or not the modified is good.

    Gardy/Gallade and Mario are not the big tyrants this thread is making it out to be. We are still no where near when the format was just Blaziken ex and Gardy ex.

    completely not connected. Pokemon died in America because WotC tried to kill it. Set contents at that time were next to the same as in Japan (Japan's 6 sets were merged to make 3 sets outside of Japan).
  13. aade8

    aade8 New Member

    Okay, I'll give you that the Modified format makes it easier for new players to come into the game. I love to teach newcomers how to play and help them construct decks, it is what makes being a LL worthwhile. I'll concede to thinking that going to a FRLG-on format would not be a good idea.

    However, my real concern is why PUI is deciding to release the new cards as they are. It really does not make sense. Yes, I've heard the arguments that it provides something to look forward to, keeps people interested. I also understand the argument that perhaps we should refrain from looking at spoiler lists because then we certain expectations that we want to be met that aren't required to met by any means. But the fact is that we DO know that there are some good new cards that exist in Japan that logically should be released here sometime. The delay just seems to not make sense. By people realizing that these good cards are in new sets, that would make people WANT to buy more cards in order to get multiple copies of the card, collect AH's of them, and so on. Putting more attractive cards, like promotional Lv.Xs, in POP sets could GENERATE more attendence at League because people want to earn packs to see if they can get the cool goods. If they would adjust what cards they put in upcoming sets and especially in upcoming POP sets, it would promote sales as well as game growth.
  14. ShadowCard

    ShadowCard Active Member

    I agree. The only idea I can think of which makes sense is that they are actively planning to keep powerful cards in future modifieds by making them released in a later set. But that is really extremely calculating.

    eriknance mentioned that ideas which were practiced with, like decks with Garchmop LvX have lost momentum because they were not released when they were expected to. Perhaps people are trying to do just that - keep overhyped cards from dominating in the Modified by withholding them from a set for later. Someone would really have to be messing with us.

    I don't think it'll generate greater league attendance. The very useful cards in POP5 did not generate greater attendance at my leagues. Players just trade with league-attendees at tournaments or get the POP cards through their player rewards, or even on line. Not to mention a lot of the cards end up getting released as holos sold in blisters at some later time :nonono:
  15. Scizor

    Scizor New Member

    ShadowCard: We wouldn't have to be playtesting and looking ahead if our format wasn't so ******* DULL right now. Yeah, good players adapt to the format, but it's hardly a crime for us to want more VIABLE decks, cards, etc.
  16. eriknance

    eriknance New Member

    My replies are in bold. Also, I respect your opinion, and I realize that there are people who believe what you do about card rotations and the current format, so thanks for contributing, even if we don't feel the same about the issue. :smile:
  17. ShadowCard

    ShadowCard Active Member

    Well, like I said, the store where I have league has Dragon Frontiers and Power Keepers, but the sets do not sell very well in comparison to Mysterious Treasures and Secret Wonders. So, if FRLG was still legal and the store kept a box supply of it, I think it would sell just as well as the DF and PK that the store currently has - not too well.

    Holon Phantoms isn't that old compared to Deoxys.

    Rocket's Admin and the Holon engine did exist in the same format for a certain amount of time. RA really didn't set it back, atleast in my experience.

    It really sounds like what you ought to do is campain for better cards in POP packs. You're right, the POP6 selection was very bad. While great cards in POP packs don't really draw players into leagues, bad cards in POP packs put off league players. If such cards were to return by way of POP packs, it makes them better accessible to league players too. You could try going out on a limb and campain for another partial reprint set like Power Keepers in order to get cards like RA reprinted. Those packs would be new and easily accessible to new players.

    We played at the Sanston, Virginia Gym Challenge. I was your round 1 opponent. I remember being amazed at seeing someone use ER2 and SSU. It was also the first time I got full exposure against a Flariados.
  18. ryanvergel

    ryanvergel New Member

    The original ambush list (empoleon) used corsola, actually.
  19. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    "original list" as in what was played at Nationals, or as in what was used in play testing?

    Obviously, I don't know what was play tested for that deck since it was a secret.
    But even so, I'm glad it was considered. Just wondering why it was dropped, though. It seems to be a perfect card for that deck, since it was Water/Fighting and you wanted to get behind on prizes while setting up to activate the Scrables.
  20. ryanvergel

    ryanvergel New Member

    We dropped it because we honestly wanted a faster prinplup up. Having corsola starts set you back 1-2 turns at least that you could be spreading damage.

    With a piplup start->t2 prinplup to aqua show
    cubone->t2 marowak to start doing 20/20
    budew/roselia->if budew, setup then evolve and disrupt. if roselia, disrupt

    WIth corsola you're having to setup, then retreat or sit and wait, with the metagame the way it was we had to be faster and start doing damage by t1.

    But yes, corsola was in our original lists. By the time nats rolled around corsola was dead and gone haha
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