Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Where's My Phione (and others)?

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Hey if Claydol could do it last year, it can do it again. :D

No, but in all seriousness, Claydol isn't bad AT ALL. It's a great counter to Absol, it can one shot it(w/ a Pluspower; but Godwilling that ever comes down to it), and it replenishes your deck pretty much if you have a huge hand and are about to deck out, it's a lifesaver in that situation. Explain why it's bad people. Humor me.
 
here is my problem with claydol.

Claydol only works well if you can move multiple cards from your hand to your graveyard, play area, deck every turn. If you can move multiple (3-5) cards from your hand to any of those areas, Claydol would work well in the deck. If you can't, Claydol will usually only draw you 2 cards, maybe even none, making Claydol not that useful.

Claydol won't be the end of Absol because Claydol isn't as splashable as Absol is. People won't put a stage 1 line into their deck that doesn't help them setup in any way to counteract a basic being played in multiple decks. If Claydol becomes just a way to draw 2 cards, why not just play delcatty and draw 3?

I honestly don't see Claydol being useful in any of the popular decks right now and only barely useful with a few cards that could use it properly (Feraligatr MT for example).
 
Prime said:
here is my problem with claydol.

Claydol only works well if you can move multiple cards from your hand to your graveyard, play area, deck every turn. If you can move multiple (3-5) cards from your hand to any of those areas, Claydol would work well in the deck. If you can't, Claydol will usually only draw you 2 cards, maybe even none, making Claydol not that useful.

Claydol won't be the end of Absol because Claydol isn't as splashable as Absol is. People won't put a stage 1 line into their deck that doesn't help them setup in any way to counteract a basic being played in multiple decks. If Claydol becomes just a way to draw 2 cards, why not just play delcatty and draw 3?

I honestly don't see Claydol being useful in any of the popular decks right now and only barely useful with a few cards that could use it properly (Feraligatr MT for example).
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You dont disard anything with Claydol, where Delcatty you do. If you play a deck that doesnt have a lot of energy recovery, your gonna have problems in the long run, and those are the decks that you run Claydol.

JMO,
Drew
 
Prime said:
If you can't, Claydol will usually only draw you 2 cards, maybe even none, making Claydol not that useful.
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r u serious? claydol is so good against Absol, and it's not because of it's type. It's type is actually very good because it doesn't get shot down by BF. If Cess. Crystal doesn't get reprinted (me prays to the poke gods AKA PUI that it does) then BF will see a lot of play.

Ok, now the reason Claydol is so good against Absol is b/c if u have a hand full of trainers you can put 2 back at the bottom and get some new cards, saving your trainers for later use.

Not only is Claydol good vs. Absol it's also good vs. a Wager loss, heck even if you win Wager you still could play down your hand down as much as possible and then refresh your hand.

Claydol is just like Delcatty, Porygon2, and Gardevoir where they pretty much let you play an extra supporter per turn. Now please tell me that those cards are also bad.
 
Okay, you can use it against Absol and Wager, two cards that were being played less and less before GE even came out.

Against every other deck, it will be kind of stupid. Most hands don't drop below 3 without some effort from the opponent, so most of the time you will just be putting 2 cards on the bottom of your deck to draw 2. That's quite a small effect for running a 2-2 line of something. Porygon2 would be a better idea IMHO, and would take up just as much space.

Claydol doesn't let you play another supporter each turn. I don't see how you are saying is is "just like" them. You won't be drawing 3-5 cards each turn with Claydol, unless you have a deck that discards/shuffles/plays massive amounts of cards from your hand each and every turn. Most decks will get very little effects from them, and that is why i feel Claydol won't be played that much.

Honestly, I don't expect Claydol to be played in any deck that doesn't combo it with an attack or power to empty their hand fast. Quote me on that. A deck won't win a state championship (in 15+) with Claydol in it if it doesn't combo something with Claydol's power.

Think I am wrong? Go win a state with a deck with Claydol in it.
 
GE is amazing even after not having a lot of the cards we expected.

This set has so many cards that combo with cards in the SAME set. It's pretty amazing.
 
Prime said:
Okay, you can use it against Absol and Wager, two cards that were being played less and less before GE even came out.

Against every other deck, it will be kind of stupid. Most hands don't drop below 3 without some effort from the opponent, so most of the time you will just be putting 2 cards on the bottom of your deck to draw 2. That's quite a small effect for running a 2-2 line of something. Porygon2 would be a better idea IMHO, and would take up just as much space.

Claydol doesn't let you play another supporter each turn. I don't see how you are saying is is "just like" them. You won't be drawing 3-5 cards each turn with Claydol, unless you have a deck that discards/shuffles/plays massive amounts of cards from your hand each and every turn. Most decks will get very little effects from them, and that is why i feel Claydol won't be played that much.

Honestly, I don't expect Claydol to be played in any deck that doesn't combo it with an attack or power to empty their hand fast. Quote me on that. A deck won't win a state championship (in 15+) with Claydol in it if it doesn't combo something with Claydol's power.

Think I am wrong? Go win a state with a deck with Claydol in it.
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Japan plays winning decks that run Claydol, so it's not going to do good here?
What, you say our format is different? True, but they have the exact same decks doing well in their format as ours. Blissey dominated, Gallade dominated, Magmortar saw loads of play, and Absol is in many of their decks. So, I'd say our format is almost the same, which in turn says that Claydol will see play and it will make an impact on our format.
 
chriscobi634 said:
saying Wager and Absol aren't played, just lost you that argument. Not to mention it show your PTCG IQ.
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What decks run Absol and Wager? Magmortar doesn't. Many G&G builds don't. Most Blissey builds don't. The only decks that run Absol and have done well is G&G and a little Honchkrow. But for the majority of decks that did well at cities, they didn't run Absol and I would guess that many if not most did not run Wager. Maybe a few ran a single tech.

You are making this whole defense that Claydol is going to change the format so much and abolish absol before states, and I am trying to tell you that Absol wasn't that great to begin with. It wasn't that impossible to beat, and it didn't automatically win you games. Many players actually dropped it later on to run a more consistent version of their deck.

You say Claydol is going to be big because of Absol and Wager, but if nobody plays Absol and Wager, then Claydol isn't going to be big.

chriscobi, you might be used to your area. Your metagame might be FILLED with absol and wager, and if that is true, then claydol probably will help a ton. But for the overall picture, for the overall standings from cities and such, absol and wager are being played less and less. I wouldn't even expect to see that much of either at states.

Also to bring up, some decks that do run Wager run Cessation Crystal too. So when they Wager, you won't be able to use Claydol to refill your hand.
 
Thank you Prime. I had such a bad day before coming online that I didn't think anything could make it better. Then I read your post about wager and absol not seeing play. 5 minutes later, after I stopped rolling on the floor laughing, I feel much better.
Thanks again.
 
You are very welcome SPARTA. Count us even for all the times you've made comments that have made me laugh. You still owe me some laughs for all those posts that made absolutely no sense though.
 
Prime said:
What decks run Absol and Wager? Magmortar doesn't. Many G&G builds don't. Most Blissey builds don't. The only decks that run Absol and have done well is G&G and a little Honchkrow. But for the majority of decks that did well at cities, they didn't run Absol and I would guess that many if not most did not run Wager. Maybe a few ran a single tech.

You are making this whole defense that Claydol is going to change the format so much and abolish absol before states, and I am trying to tell you that Absol wasn't that great to begin with. It wasn't that impossible to beat, and it didn't automatically win you games. Many players actually dropped it later on to run a more consistent version of their deck.

You say Claydol is going to be big because of Absol and Wager, but if nobody plays Absol and Wager, then Claydol isn't going to be big.

chriscobi, you might be used to your area. Your metagame might be FILLED with absol and wager, and if that is true, then claydol probably will help a ton. But for the overall picture, for the overall standings from cities and such, absol and wager are being played less and less. I wouldn't even expect to see that much of either at states.

Also to bring up, some decks that do run Wager run Cessation Crystal too. So when they Wager, you won't be able to use Claydol to refill your hand.
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In case you missed this: http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64206
 
Did you not see my countless posts in that thread? Maybe YOU missed it.

Did you see how many people felt the cards weren't broken and didn't need to be banned, or even countered (in some opinions)? I guess not.
 
give it up Prime, u have even been the laughing stock of Lafonte for comments u have made like this one.

Have u even playtested with the card to say it's not that good?
 
chriscobi, if you knew ANYTHING, you'd know that I am laughing stock EVERYWHERE! Team M forums, Team R forums, d00d, I am booked solid through the entire month for shows. I'm a laughing stock at LaFonte...hah, like that is new news!

For your other question, I've been testing G&G with Absol since G&G was around. I know just how destructive Absol can be, and how powerful Wager can be if you lose RPS.

How many State Championships have you gone to where Claydol has won?

Oops, State Championships haven't even started yet. Guess neither of us can say whether Claydol will be big or not.
 
Prime I stopped counting about mid December but Absol showed up in over 23% of the deck reports of top 1-2 & it was probably higher since some of the G&G reports didn't say. The only cards that got higher percentages were Gardevoir and Gallade. The numbers don't lie.

TGW saw even wider play as far as I could tell though numbers are harder to come by.

These cards saw play and saw it widely ... and they won games.

Now lets step back and look at what you said about the problem with Claydol being:
Prime said:
Claydol only works well if you can move multiple cards from your hand to your graveyard, play area, deck every turn.
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What kinds of decks can do this?

All of them.

You attach energy, put pokemon onto the field or evolve ones there, play supporters, etc. every single turn. Yes decks that use ball engines, have hand manipulation, or discard stuff get bigger returns more reliably but just about every single deck out there could use the Claydol effect and benefit from it even without TGW or Absol. Once you put them on the field then Claydol turns from good to awesome.

Should every deck run Claydol?

Heck no, but lots of them should. I think that Tego’s reports about Japan’s Claydol/Magmortar and Claydol based Hurricane decks are telling. Yes they have cards that we don't but the reason this card saw play there will remain the same here. Claydol is good.
 
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