Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Where's My Phione (and others)?

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What decks run Absol and Wager? Magmortar doesn't. Many G&G builds don't. Most Blissey builds don't. The only decks that run Absol and have done well is G&G and a little Honchkrow. But for the majority of decks that did well at cities, they didn't run Absol and I would guess that many if not most did not run Wager. Maybe a few ran a single tech.

Ever heard of Magsol. A little Honchcrow? Almost every deck that had Honchrow ran Absol, if not all of them. The ONLY deck that ran it was G/G, G/G was like 75% of the format. So I guess it's the ONLY deck that ran it.

You are making this whole defense that Claydol is going to change the format so much and abolish absol before states, and I am trying to tell you that Absol wasn't that great to begin with. It wasn't that impossible to beat, and it didn't automatically win you games. Many players actually dropped it later on to run a more consistent version of their deck.

Ok, now your just putting words in my mouth. I never said Claydol was going to change the format. I simply said that Claydol is a great counter to about 80%+ of the format.


You say Claydol is going to be big because of Absol and Wager, but if nobody plays Absol and Wager, then Claydol isn't going to be big.

Again, it just goes to show your Pokemon IQ.

chriscobi, you might be used to your area. Your metagame might be FILLED with absol and wager, and if that is true, then claydol probably will help a ton. But for the overall picture, for the overall standings from cities and such, absol and wager are being played less and less. I wouldn't even expect to see that much of either at states.

No comment. * I like SPARTA just rolled on the ground and cried my eyes out after that one.*

Also to bring up, some decks that do run Wager run Cessation Crystal too. So when they Wager, you won't be able to use Claydol to refill your hand.

You said that Claydol isn't like Delcatty. Well, for Delcatty you also need an energy to manage to use it's power. You also just contradicted yourself by saying that SOME decks do run Wager and Cess. Crystal.

Replies in bold, and case closed.
 
'Pop it is about the cards. Actually a card you brought up:

I'm talking about the personal remarks that are tossed in along with discussion of the card.
If you are right about the card, your arguments should speak for themselves.

I find it a sign of weakness in an argument to attack the opposition rather than their ideas.

And it's also against board rules.
 
^nvm(edit)

Idk if anyone has pointed this out but claydol can and should be played w/ wager. You lose, you go to 6 w/ dol power, no difference.
 
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I'm talking about the personal remarks that are tossed in along with discussion of the card.
If you are right about the card, your arguments should speak for themselves.

I find it a sign of weakness in an argument to attack the opposition rather than their ideas.

And it's also against board rules.

you know me 'pop. I'm the Pokegym bully in the eyes of many.

My arguments on cards are usually good, but it upsets me when I'm stating simple facts and someone as involved in the game as Prime can't accept defeat. It's even worse when I'm not the only one who is trying to open his eyes.

Ok, as far as the set goes, and where the thread was going before the whole Claydol argument:

I'm not completely disappointed on what we got and what we didn't get. Many, like myself would have preferred Phione over Pachurisu, but what can you do? Play the cards we have with now. The one card that will keep quite a few people happy is the one we were just discussing, Claydol. Like someone else mentioned with the other cards being a set late, it gives them the possibility of staying in the format longer.

Now only playtesting, time and results will let us know if this was a good set or not.

Everyone was saying how Crystal Guardians was a bad set but it has given us:
Celio
Cess. Crystal
Windstorm
Ascencion Shuppet
Sableye
Castaway
Crystal Beach
Double Rainbow Energy
Jirachi Ex (in last year's Nats winning deck)
Delcatty Ex
Groundon Ex (a good tech in Metanite)
Shiftry Ex (a very good cards with high placements in last year's Regionals)
Among other good cards.
 
I'm talking about the personal remarks that are tossed in along with discussion of the card.
If you are right about the card, your arguments should speak for themselves.

I find it a sign of weakness in an argument to attack the opposition rather than their ideas.
And it's also against board rules.

^nvm(edit)

Idk if anyone has pointed this out but claydol can and should be played w/ wager. You lose, you go to 6 w/ dol power, no difference.

i agree.
on both parts.
so is a limp handshake.
and thats what i do. it doesnt matter wether you win the wagger or not, which is awesome.
 
chriscobi, if you knew ANYTHING, you'd know that I am laughing stock EVERYWHERE! Team M forums, Team R forums, d00d, I am booked solid through the entire month for shows. I'm a laughing stock at LaFonte...hah, like that is new news!

Um... yeah, Team M doesn't really mock you on their forums... yeah, thanks for the fals accusaion shout out, but... yeah, get the facts right next time....


I went to the PR and surprisingly liked alot of the new cards, especially Togekiss. I feel much better about the set.
 
Um... yeah, Team M doesn't really mock you on their forums... yeah, thanks for the fals accusaion shout out, but... yeah, get the facts right next time....


I went to the PR and surprisingly liked alot of the new cards, especially Togekiss. I feel much better about the set.

Which is what I said earlier in the thread. Go to a PR, see the cards and find out yourself. Dont rely on others opinions.

Keith
 
I like this set, it doesn't have any incredibly over-powered cards like the last two sets did. It is very balanced and there are a few good pokemon that could have decks built around them. It also has a lot of cool supporting cards(claydol, pachirisu, slowking, felicity's, lapras, etc.).
 
here is my problem with claydol.

Dear Prime, is it just me, or are you always disagreeing with every rational/intelligent/meaningful/common sense statement posted on the 'Gym lately just for the sake of disagreeing, or braggingly proclaiming your individuality showing how little influenced you supposedly are by the "mainstream opinion" or the masses following the know-it-alls? Suggesting WPM is an innocent victim of "POP/PUI not providing the community with information in the first place." was one (very peculiar) anti-mainstream opinion (which is a topic I'm not going to bring up again, sorry), but suggesting Claydol is not an amazing card is not just peculiar, it's just beyond absurd. I refuse to believe you even mean what you're saying yourself.

The only card ever that has matched Claydol's Poké-Power is FRLG Pidgeot. Pidgeot Power is arguably even better. But Pidgeot was a Stage 2, you could only use one per turn, it had a rubbish Basic Pokémon and it could be stopped by Battle Frontier and Solrock, two cards specifically designed to put its usage down. Right now, there's no card in the format specifically designed to put Claydol down. It's Poké-Power is an amazing tool for every single deck that needs solid draw-back up, and just like Pidgeot, Claydol increases the number of viable Pokémon in the format, giving hard-to-setup (but interesting) Pokémon lines a chance to shine.

Players have been looking for a card like Magcargo and Pidgeot for a long time, because it's healthy for any format to have such draw/search aiding support lines.

A deck won't win a state championship (in 15+) with Claydol in it if it doesn't combo something with Claydol's power.

Combo something with Claydol's Power? How about Steven's Advice or Team Galactic Wager? The first let's you draw an insane number of cards every turn - first Claydol's Power, then Steven's - and the latter let's you keep a hand of 6 cards no matter what, even if the opponent wins the RPS. These two are STRONG combos, and more than enough to make Claydol work efficiently in any deck. I also have another combo suggestion: Play a good deck with no uneccessary cards, to maximize the chance of emptying your hand every turn (i. e. go down to a hand size of two cards).

Honestly, I don't expect Claydol to be played in any deck that doesn't combo it with an attack or power to empty their hand fast. Quote me on that. A deck won't win a state championship (in 15+) with Claydol in it if it doesn't combo something with Claydol's power.

Think I am wrong? Go win a state with a deck with Claydol in it.

You're not the first person on this forum to underestimate Claydol and post things about Claydol that made me shake my head in disbelief, but I haven't attacked other forum members just for that. The reason why your posts frustrate me is the amazing arrogance and the strutting self-confidence you display in your anti-mainstream opinion announcements. "Think I am wrong? Go win a state with a deck with Claydol in it." is a downright silly form of arguing. So for anyone who disagrees with you now (i. e. the "good players" on the board, which by big parts of the community are entitled some kind of auhority to judge cards and are considered trustworthy, something which obviously frustrates you a lot), their opinon is wrong until proven otherwise? =\

I'd love to answer "Yeah, ok, we'll see at States, allright", but I'm trying to keep my argumentation methods above primary school level for the time being.

Btw, if you really believe that its success at the next tournament series is the only way to determine a new cards' playbility rightfully, what about all the Claydol decks that have performed incredibly well in Japan since DP4's release? Isn't that proof enough already? Claydol is broken. Even Baltoy is almost broken. You may "feel" otherwise if that's what you want, but your way of arguing is an annoying read, and easy to see through.
 
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Couldn't agree with Tego more. Prime: I don't understand why you have to argue with simple facts. You also constantly bring up things such as people should be more creative, etc. Great combos come from somewhere. They come from the COUNTRY you live in. The same one that you constantly call out and refuse to support.

Anyways, Claydol is an AMAZING card. It WILL be in decks that win States. But hey, I don't think anyone should be surprised that people have said it isn't that good on here. Posters on the 'Gym said Blissey and Magmortar were bad cards and they've done PRETTY GOOD so far.

GE isn't the best set, and it could have CERTAINLY been better, but there are some game-changing cards in here. If you don't see that, then you're the one being uncreative.
 
I agree with Tego and Chad, Claydol is a fantastic card, having said that, even though i think it will win some States, I don't think it will become a dominating deck just yet, Galladevoir and Magmorter are just to strong. i could be wrong, but thats tthe way i see it atm.
 
This is addressed to anyone and everyone that has replied to my comments, which have directed childish remarks my way, and that have laughed at me in the past.

What makes me special? Why always quote what I say and try to find fault in it when hundreds of people are posting at the same time? Why do you single me out? Is it because of what I say, or the way I say it? Is it because I am a mod, and you expect me to phrase my comments in a particular way? Is it because I speak of things that sound really weird; ideas that anyone with common sense would realize is false? This has gone on for a long time, and I have always wondered why I have gotten a large part of the attention, and why I have gotten a large part of the hate that people splash about with freedom.

I have an opinion too. The great thing about an opinion is that you can state it and not have to feel bad about it being true or false in factuality because it is just something you feel. You don’t call it a fact, and have faith that people will take it as it is, just an opinion. What I see happening is that my opinion, my thoughts, my feelings, are being tossed into a pile and caught on fire by many people on this board. It surprises me how many people interweave disrespect and hate with their posts. It amazes me how many people purposely put down other people online, even when they know nothing about them. I am clueless to why people automatically jump to childish remarks the second someone says something they don’t agree with. Does it make them feel special, or make them feel better than the person they put down? Do they feel people will see them as the better player just by what they say, and who they put down, online? There is no skill found in defamatory comments, and there is no invisible cool meter that rises when someone is put down or insulted by another.

May I be wrong in my view of Claydol? Sure! But that is up to me, and only me to decide. Consistently reminding me how bad of a player you think I am, and how little I know will not change how I feel on subjects. If anything, you will get a rise out of me to try to defend my views. Constructive, considerate, comments that try to educate me on why my opinion might be skewed can accomplish that much easier. I find that as long as two people approach an argument as adults and present clean and accurate information, each can understand the other’s point of view completely and hopefully both can leave the situation with a little more knowledge under their belt. When one person brings hateful comments and disrespect into an argument, the ending result is much different. Not only do they make themselves look bad, but the conversation, the initial argument that was so important, is tossed aside in favor of a competition to see who can belittle their opponent the quickest. Do we really want to partake in this kind of activity? Do we really want to keep doing this, over and over again, when the obvious answer is staring us right in the face? With a little respect for one another, none of these childish conflicts would occur, and people might actually attain something out of our squabble other than our petty remarks directed towards each other. The thread in which our conversation occurs wouldn’t be filled with useless space, and could be educational for others with the same opinions if we chose another route.

But in the end, so many choose the wrong road. Too many people choose to take down their opponent before trying to approach that person’s opinion. Too many people long for their next chance to exert their dominance over others and show just how much better they are from everyone around them. Too many people look to hate before looking to help, and I am really sad about that.

I am not perfect, and my views won’t always be the correct ones. But I ask the community to just let me have my views in peace. Attacking my views and attacking me will not better the community. It will not change my views, or teach me anything. Dropping down to that level only lowers the quality of the conversation and loses the entire reason for the discussion. Hate and prejudice only leads to more hate and prejudice, and that only leads to even more hate and prejudice. Let’s show each other some level of respect, and keep that kind of stuff out of our conversations not for ourselves or for the other person, but for the sake of the conversation and the people that will read our conversation. In the long run, those are the more important goals, not us being right or our opponent being wrong. If nobody can gain from what we write, why write to begin with?
 
But Pidgeot was a Stage 2, you could only use one per turn, it had a rubbish Basic Pokémon and it could be stopped by Battle Frontier and Solrock, two cards specifically designed to put its usage down...

:frown::frown::frown:...

Okay, sorry, umm... Claydol is good. A good player won't just add Claydol into their deck, they'll adapt their deck to work with Claydol. If you can't find yourself using Claydol's power effectively every turn, then adjust your deck until you can. And the thing makes Absol a joke.

My impressions about the PreRelease? It was good and fun, but isn't every PreRelease? I mean, after playing in some of the Holon Phantoms PreReleases I was excited about playing Pidgeot, Kingdra, Armaldo, Gyarados, etc. (all delta), but those were cards that I've never used in tournament play. The PreReleases are exciting; I mean, it's awesome to completely blow away the competition with a certain card (Zangoose, Floatzel, Unown G). But I can tell you from personal experience that those cards that won you the PreRelease probably won't win you States. I think that a lot of people who were disturbed by the cards being cut aren't upset anymore because they had a great time at a PreRelease this past weekend. I'm actually one of those people as well -- I feel pretty good about the game again.

But it's hard to forget the way the game has been up until now. It's hard to just ignore the fact that G&G won something like half the City Championships, that all of our disruption cards have completely random effects (Absol, Wager, Mars, Empoleon Lv. X), that almost every deck strategy these days is based on damage output, etc. I'm really not trying to be pessimistic with these kinds of statements, I'm just hoping that someone who has the power to prevent this from happening again hears me out a little bit. Right now, Wager doesn't look too bad because of Claydol, but then again, it wouldn't have looked too bad with Pidgeot either. The thing is, we hit a very weak spot with this game that could have -- in some way or another -- been easily prevented. A few reprints here or there, a better POP6 set, keeping Legend Maker in for another season -- these are things that would have helped our current format up to now not be so limited.

Now let's focus on something I found worthy of mention rather than talk about whether or not Claydol is a good card. This whole list of excellent questions has yet to be answered or even addressed. Can someone out there please help me with them:

To be sure, this is a great topic.

Some solutions have been suggested, but how do we get there?

Simultaneous translation - what financial case can be made to convince Nintendo+PCL and PUI to allocate resources to that?

Matching card pool - what is your counter to the apparent financial case for more frequent rotations outside Japan?

Better choices on what to put in or out - how would you propose to help PUI determine what's a better choice?
 
Poor Erik =*(
Pidgey only wins on time... and people who want to win on time, even despite that not being very legitimate =D
 
i like claydol. theres like no deck that like exists that doesnt play cards from their hand. not only that but you send 2 useless cards from your hand to your deck. claydol gets a coolmark in my coolness book.
 
To be sure, this is a great topic.

Some solutions have been suggested, but how do we get there?

Simultaneous translation - what financial case can be made to convince Nintendo+PCL and PUI to allocate resources to that?

Matching card pool - what is your counter to the apparent financial case for more frequent rotations outside Japan?

Better choices on what to put in or out - how would you propose to help PUI determine what's a better choice?

I don't know if it's a case of them wanting us to be behind at this point. I know they have been trying since Sandstorm to bring us up to parity, it just hasn't worked out.
There are a couple of things affecting this.
For the US, PUI seems to be targeting sets at around 100+ cards per set. A few have reached the 120s, but that was more of an abberation.
I've stated elsewhere, I feel the current set size is a good target. Bigger sets (that would allow us to catch up) tend to frustrate the collectors and even the players. Buying packs and even boxes become very random in what you'll get, and with a large set, one would have to buy quite a few packs and boxes before getting everything you want. Currently, you're going to get most, if not all, of the holos, rares, uncommons, and commons in one box, and it takes about three boxes to get the super rare cards. This is manageable. Smaller sets, like Jungle and Fossil, get boring very quickly. WotC would have done well to mix in vending cards into those sets to fill them out a bit more, but they didn't. Missed opportunity.
So, that's one constraint.
Another is the US set release schedule. 4 sets per year. That has been a constant since PUI took over and I think it's a good constant to have. More sets than that per year, and you over saturate your market. People get tired of trying to "catch them all" and drop out.
Less sets than that, and people forget about them, and you also fall too far behind Japan.

So, add those two together, and you get about 450 new cards released per year, not counting promos.
480 if you add POP sets in.

The problem comes with how Japan releases sets and cards. It doesn't seem that they keep to quite the same schedule. Plus, they also tend to release some cards one way (booster packs), some another way (PCDs), and some yet another way (lots of promos), with quite a bit of overlap.

Put them all together, and generally we wind up with the amount of cards released not quite matching up with what PUI needs for their schedule. Plus, the timing is off.

Then toss in factors like game and movie releases that PUI mandates the TCG must line up with (look at the sets released for Emerald, Deoxys, and now Great Encounters). Japan is releasing cards to go along with the Japanese release of those games and movies, but of course the US/rest of the world release is going to happen later. And so, a wrench is thrown into the works for trying to get a simultaneous release. Suddenly, cards must be shifted around to fit the release schedule of OTHER parts of the brand. The TCG takes a back seat.

That would be the main reason that DP3, DP4, and DP5 got scrambled. All to match up certain cards with the release of the Darkrai movie. Once you move certain cards to this set, you have to take some out, and with those out, the balance of types in the set is off, and so other cards have to be moved, and so on and so on.

I'm sure PUI tried to balance the recreated sets as best as possible. And of course that means not putting all the A-list cards into one set.

If they were all in GE, then how much would people complain about how crappy they made the next set? It's something of a lose-lose for them. I'm sure they'd rather just release the sets to match them as they come out in Japan, but other factors take precedence.

Now, regarding card pool.
There are advantages and disadvantages to how we do it now. Keeping cards in the pool longer would give players a larger choice of cards to play. More combos to consider.
But it would also keep overpowered cards in the format longer. Wasn't everyone glad to see Holon's Transceiver go? Well, maybe not. But a lot of people were. The metagame got turned on it's head with that card gone.

Back when the Modified rotation started, there was a very good reason to rotate out the old cards: They were overpowered. Many of the Trainers were, anyway. If they had not been rotated out, the format would have stagnated for a very long time with the power Base Set Trainers dominating the game for a very long time, making Basics the only viable option. So, rotations at that time really saved competitive play.
Do we still need such strict rotations? I don't think so. I think we could keep another year's worth of cards in the format without much problem. But that's because the current cards are stronger than they have been for a while.
There are other reasons for rotations: Keeping cards available for new players. This is a big thing. As a PTO I find new players have two classes of cards available to them: Old Base set- Fossil cards that they inherited from an older sibling, and cards from the past two to three sets that they got themselves.
So, for those new players, I can see that keeping a small card pool is helpful. On the other hand, just because they can't make a deck from last years cards, the deck they can make from this year's is competitive against that deck, so they're not really disadvantaged. I think adding another years worth of cards to the format might be OK for these guys.
Finally, the last reason to rotate must be condidered: Sales of cards. POP is in the business of promoting card sales. They are not there for any other reason.
So, allowing older cards has the potential to cut into new card sales.
Back in the day, players kept their Haymaker deck for set after set. Sets would come and go, and their old deck made up of mostly Base Set cards could still win and win dependably.
What reason was there for these players to get new cards? Very little.

But, I don't think we're in that situation now. PCL and PUI are putting out set after set with cards that have major impacts on the Metagame. Those that keep their deck unchanged will find that they are not winning games anymore. The new sets have to be bought because the cards being release are worth getting, even compared to the ones that won last year.

Now, would POP want to open up a full format like Japan's, going all the way back to FRLG?
Maybe not. But again, expanding that set window by another year probably won't have a bad effect.
And it might make for some interesting combos.
 
^^^^Pop's Post above -

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A few things.

This set has amazing cards in it.

On the subject of Claydol, I have been play testing it for 2 months with various combinations. As Tego says, it's insane. Prime can have an opinion, just don't be rude about it. Tego hit it on the head.

Other cards are really good too. As Ryan mentioned, they pair well with cards in the set to boot.

Try playing Togekiss/anything

Try Playing Claydol/anything

Try playing Swampert/Pelipper/Claydol

Try Butterfree with Roselia

Try Weezing with Crobat

How about others? The electric squirrel is insane, Mawile, amulet, leftovers, LATIAS, and oh, Darkrai....

Folks, the doors are wide open for states. It is less than a month away. Will this SET have an impact on States?

YOU BET
 
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