Why Pachirisu and Phione are Good but Overated (a Team Space-Time production)

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by Muscovy Level X, Apr 16, 2008.

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  1. Muscovy Level X

    Muscovy Level X New Member

    Pachirisu and Phione are probably the most argued over starter Pokemon. We've all seen articles on why they are good or not.
    And as many people will have seen at Regionals and just during league play, Pachirisu has amazing popularity. Phione of Majestic Dawn has seen as much hype, if not more than Pachi. Between those two cards, many decks will run one or both Pokemon.
    But are they worth it? They both have problems and drawbacks, which should raise the question "Does this deck really need it?".

    Pachirisu has had a masive popularity from the day it was released, and is a useful card. But it is overated, and not the amazing miracle card that will change the metagame. So why does everyone use Pachi, and why is it still so good? Two reasons:

    Call for family is the big one. The lure to get 3 basics in just the first turn is too good. But, why should everyone use Pachirisu for that? Getting basics right away isn't huge unless you run a T2 deck, and even then, the only really good ones (Quickitune, Banette and Honchkrow)don't need added support.
    pachi is only really good for turn 1. Then' you've got the basics, and can't really do anything else with it. Once the bench is full, it's pretty useless. And as Prime mentioned, with the booming popularity of Magmortar decks, a 70 HP Pokemon just taking up bench space can equal an easy prize.
    Pachirisu is pretty much the new age version of the SS Dunsparce, with more hype. To put it simply, if you don't need tons of basics, you shouldn't be running Pachirisu. Cards like Roseanne's research, daul ball, holon mentor, ect are there if you may need more basics. Don't run Pachi just because.
    And before I get a flood of angry posts, no I did not forget about Pachirisu's Smash Shot. Does 10 damage, but if the defending Pokemon has a Pokemon tool, it does 30 more damage, and the tool and all copies in your opponent's hand are discarded. That may be great, especialy for stopping the dreaded Cessation Crystal, but it has one huge drawback: who would put a Pokemon toool on their active if the other person had a active Pachi? No one.
    Case in point. People don't just play a Pokemon tool right where Pachi can get it. Yes, you an say it acts as a deterant. A one turn deterant.
    So unless it's important enough to retreat and shift up Pachirisu, you won't get a lot of action with that move.
    So once Pachi has grabbed basics, that's it. Without the Poketool effect, Smash Short is no good, so it's just a one turn card. Summing it up, it's grab and run. But it is still a good card. A deterant for Poketools and something that can get 5 basics in 2 turns. But always make sure you have either a setup or attacking Pokemon ready to take over. Pachirisu indeed works best to grab the setup Pokemon that's right for the senario. That way you can have one of a bunch of different openers, and have acess to them 90% of the time.

    Phione is talked about as the next great starter. There is even more hype over Pione than the Great Encounters Pachirisu. It's a great card, with the ability to evolve your benched Pokemon.
    So basicly, after turn 3 or so, it's useless. And it takes at least the first turn to power it up. But if there's another hitch, like no other basics, no energy, (or even no Phione:eek:0, that means a whole turn wasted. And in today's competative game, The first few turns are very important for either setting up or getting an easy prize.
    Phione would be great in many stage 2 decks, but not a lot of T2. Maybe the best combo will just be grab Claydol from your deck and end Phione's main effect... or is it? People may think of using both Holon Mentor AND Roseannes Research. Its second attack you may never consider unless you use Empoleon only. There is a lot to see from this new starter and maybe the Battle Roads/Nationals will give us the answer.

    :eek:Wait a minute! Phione and Pachirisu?:eek:
    This is actualy probably the best way to use the two. Running a phione or two along with three or four Pachi's would work extremly well. getting basics then evolving them is a huge advantage. You can ensure that not only do you a.)have evolvable basics, and b.)have a good one, but you can also keep evolving Pokemon if your opponent doesn't build up the active and KO Phione.
    But there is a catch to this otherwise perfect combo. You will take at least 2 turns to set up with both of them and have 2 energy wasted on setup. 2 energies! What is so bad? How about the crucial energy that you need, and if you can't draw energy that is needed that you need to win with no Night Maintence? I know that this may be illogical, but it may happen.
    But don't get ahead of yourself and start tossing Pachi and Phione cards into your deck. Like anything, it's not a miricle card that works for anything. You'd want it in a deck that has strong evolved Pokemon, and sets up a little too slow. And the most important rule: If you can't take 4 or 5 cards out of your deck without messing it up, this setup is not for you!

    By Muscovy Level X and poketo
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2008
  2. Papi/Manny

    Papi/Manny New Member

    Umm, every deck's first goal is getting thier pokemon out. How do you do this? Getting basics and evolving them. What do pachi and phione do? Get basics and evolve. Sure, you lose two energy drops, but if the opponet can't evolve or get a bench and only can get 1 hitter, they will lose the game 9/10. Espically since you should have 2 pokemon to sacrifice while you get back those nessicary energy drops.
  3. Muscovy Level X

    Muscovy Level X New Member

    The point is the problems, and note that the article says that they are indeed best run together. You can't take full advantage with only one of the 2. And even then, they're still not the miriacle cards that everyone says they are.
  4. poketo

    poketo New Member

    Pachirisu is the new dunsparce SS (I forgot to mention for you to put that in) and Phione is Jarichi of HL. I never saw Jarichi used (maybe it went to hand), but they are over hyped a lot
  5. XYZ_Sniper

    XYZ_Sniper New Member

    ^ never seen Jirachi HL playes?? what state, planet and meta u play?
  6. poketo

    poketo New Member

    Iowa i never seen it unless it was DX or in metagross
  7. KAZUTO!!!

    KAZUTO!!! New Member

    Okay. I'll talk about Pachi first.

    Pachirisu gets out your Basics. Use CFF twice, 5 Basics. That is great... when you can follow up with a Ceilio's for Claydol, Evolve, and start drawing into everything. Pachi also can stall, because it's pretty much impossible to get donked with Pachi (show me a card that can do 70 T1 without using Trainers... exactly). Smash Short can be pretty good, even without the Tool effect. Because when you're done getting your Basics, you can do 10 damage until they KO you, then you Scramble and hit for alot... and you're going to be attaching Energy to your Bench T2 on (probally), so Scramble might not even be needed.

    Phione is amazing. It's able to get a T2 Gardevoir/Gallade WITHOUT Candy. And anything that can do that is great. It gets a T2 Stage 1, without ANYTHING, exept Energy and a Basic. Call Energy combos so well with Phione, much better then Pachi. No 2 Energy attachments, and you still get 2 Basics. Very good, because then you start Evolving.
  8. pichu bros. rox

    pichu bros. rox New Member

    Pachi for 3 Basics
    Retreat to Phione and Evolve to Claydol
    T3 have Gardy kicking the opponents but

    They are not overhyped at all.
  9. Whicker

    Whicker New Member

    Is it just me, or did you take the two already written articles on these cards and rephrase the arguments into your own words?
  10. XYZ_Sniper

    XYZ_Sniper New Member

    i think they are OVER hyped but still good

    ^ poketo o no LBS player AT ALL played Jirachi HL
  11. Muscovy Level X

    Muscovy Level X New Member

    That was my WHOLE POINT for this.

    Arceus999, I'll add your sugestions, and talk about the positive too, when I have time.
  12. Pinsir52

    Pinsir52 New Member

    With Phione, can you evolve a basic into a Stage 2? Cause if so...
  13. TSDMage

    TSDMage New Member

    I personally question the credibility of anyone saying Pachi is overrated. "It's only good for one turn!" So what? It's worth it. It sets you up. Maybe I'm being bold by saying this, but Magmortar wouldn't be that good a deck WITHOUT Pachirisu. It just wouldn't be quick enough. The argument of "being good for one turn only" is ridiculous. That one turn can allow you to set up everything you need very quickly.
  14. XYZ_Sniper

    XYZ_Sniper New Member

    ^ i dont think someone can read scans lol JK
    just read the cards better xD
  15. Regis_Neo

    Regis_Neo Moderator

    Does it really matter if they're overated or not? Some decks benefit from them, some don't.
  16. revdjweb

    revdjweb New Member

    the play will be phione with call energy, giving one the best of both options
  17. Scipio

    Scipio New Member

    Call Energy will be the play anyway for any decks that has just ONE basic that they DONT want as a starter, and doesnt NEED only energy of 1 type. But thats not the point.

    Maybe people ARE overhyping Pachi/Phione. But Pachi allows you to get set up so fast it ain't even funny. Phione...well, lets just say that Omastar doesn't like him. Which is enough reason to me.
  18. SuperWooper

    SuperWooper New Member

    We already had a thread like this for Pachirisu and one for Phione - do we really need a third one? You guys are breaking my <3. =(

    In any case, if you run any type of energy acceleration (DRE, Scramble, or cards like Leafeon Lv. X, Blaziken Gardy PK, Electivire SW, etc), you can make up for those "lost" drops - which aren't really lost at all (they're just used to set you up, which is the first thing you need to do to win) - and with your superior setup, you should be able to keep even with your opponent. When both players get their field setup the game suddenly hinges a lot more on player skill than it did before, but you can't get to that point unless you go through with the setting up part.
  19. ~`Flygon`~

    ~`Flygon`~ New Member

    At NC regs,I used Pachi several times in my Mag,I played 4 water decks and it helped in all of them to setu a KO and get rid of a cessation when I played against mca3(which was the best game of the day I had).Pachi isnt overrated,its not even in every deck really,so why get mad that its used,if any kind of thread u should make is a GG one which one of the most overused decks.

    Phoine is overrated,it evolves a poke in ure 1st turn,how isnt that good,u setup in 2 turns all ure evolved and can possible do a T2 Lv.X,come on,the cards are good,nothing much u can do about that.
  20. Pinsir52

    Pinsir52 New Member

    Nobody answered me. Can you use phione to evolve a basic into a S2 poke?

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