Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Will you play Pokemon Reversal?

davechri said:
I love Pokemon Reversal. Sure, it's a flip, but when it works it's awesome.

Yeah, but when your opponent's Reversals work and yours don't, that stinks royally. I don't want the coin deciding who wins my games--and that's just what this ruling is going to do.

This awful ruling cements my decision to retire from competitive play and be a judge.
 
Voltorb43 said:
Yeah, but when your opponent's Reversals work and yours don't, that stinks royally. I don't want the coin deciding who wins my games--and that's just what this ruling is going to do.

This awful ruling cements my decision to retire from competitive play and be a judge.
So you remained playing through the Focus Band and baby flip era?
 
I like the comparison between super scoop up/ Mr. Briney's Compassion. What do you think then -- would you play Pokemon Reversal if it were a non-flip supporter?
 
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Wren5 said:
I like the comparison between super scoop up/ Mr. Briney's Compassion. What do you think then -- would you play Pokemon Reversal if it were a non-flip supporter?

If it was a non flip supporter YES
 
Pidgeotto Trainer said:
So you remained playing through the Focus Band and baby flip era?

Actually no. That was the era that drove me from the game. I found there was very little satisfaction in winning and a great deal of frustration in losing when coin flips were deciding a huge majority of the games.

I tried to make that point on the old Wizards boards. I was promptly branded as a whiney little idiot and run out of town on a rail. DMTM had the whole world convinced that flips were fun and that the coin wasn't really deciding the outcome of all those games where I win if my Focus Band holds and I lose if it doesn't. I don't think I'll ever understand how he could say that with a straight face or how anyone capable of rational thought could actually buy into that.

So I quit. However, when one of your best friends is John Silvestro, you just can't get away from the game entirely. I took up judging and found that I liked it.

When Neo was finally rotated out and Nintendo changed the wording on Reversal, I thought that the new Powers That Be understood that the game should be about playing and deckbuilding skill--not about flipping more heads than your opponent. I was thinking about playing in big tournaments again, but now this.

Face it. Any way you slice it, the ability to pull someone up off your opponent's bench is a game breaking effect. If three of your Reversals work and three of my Torchics are KO'd as a result while I'm only able to take out one of yours in the same manner, the coin, not your skill as a player or deckbuilder gave you that huge advantage. It's no fun that way and I'm just not going to play under those circumstances.

It's unthinkable to me that when the Gym Challenges come around, who gets a trip to Worlds and who goes home with just half a box of cards can be decided by pure dumb luck. Making Reversal a non-flip Supporter, or better yet, leaving it alone and bringing back Double Gust would be preferable to putting hugely critical flips back into the game.

Note that all of the above is my personal opinion. Yours may vary and I'm not going to be drawn into the same old argument I had on the Wizards board.

Besides, you shouldn't argue with the judge! :)
 
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Mr. Grass said:
The thing about Super Scoop Up is that we have a better option in Mr. Briney's Compassion.
But I didn't see anyone playing Super Scoop Up before we got Mr. Briney so I don't think that is a relevant point. I don't think either of the flippy trainers are worth playing when most decks are struggling to get room for 20 trainers.
 
In most decks there is no room for a trainer that involves flipping. Honestly i miss GOW. but since its not reprinted we have to work our way arround it.
 
Wren5 said:
I like the comparison between super scoop up/ Mr. Briney's Compassion. What do you think then -- would you play Pokemon Reversal if it were a non-flip supporter?

Most definitely find room for 2-3 in every deck.
 
pokemon reversal

I think that gust of wind makes many decks unplayable and takes away from strategy.

Pokemon reversal does the same but with a flip.

The southern calif. group is playing the card fairly extensively.

It can be very devestating in flygon and other colorless decks.

In the Nevada state championships I lost to a very good flygon deck and a very

good player in the preliminaries when he flipped two heads taking out rays on

both occassions. Four prizes on 2 coin flips.

In the final four I faced the same deck and again he flipped heads twice costing

me four prizes(ray again).

I feel that it adds too much of a luck element and reduces skill and strategy.
 
The single thing that has been missing from this game since we lost Double Gust has been a Trainer than lets the user bring a Pokemon off the opponent's bench.

Pokemon Reversal does this with a cost - the coin flip.

While not as good as DG, Reversal has decent balance (although I wish there were more of a downside to flipping a tails, something like "discard an energy from one of your Pokemon" or something).
 
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davechri said:
The single thing that has been missing from this game since we lost Double Gust has been a Trainer than lets the user bring a Pokemon off the opponent's bench.

True, but that's not something I've really missed.


davechri said:
Pokemon Reversal does this with a cost - the coin flip.

I must beg to differ with you here. A coin flip is not a cost. Paying a cost means you give up something to get something else. If you had to discard energy or relinquish the right to play any more Trainers this turn in order to get the Reversal effect, that would be a cost.

A flip is nothing more than a randomization. It just makes it unpredictable and therefore by definition, completely luck-based. IMHO, that's a Bad Thing. Face it, pulling a Pokemon off your opponent's bench while it's still your turn and you can attack it is a very powerful effect. Randomizing that effect significantly increases the luck factor and decreases the skill factor in the game. I can't for the life of me see why anyone would want that.

If we're both playing four Reversals and three of yours work while only one of mine does, you've gotten a significant advantage that you didn't earn thru any kind of skill as a player or deckbuilder. It was just plain dumb luck and that's wrong--especially if we happen to be meeting in the finals of a Gym Challenge with an invite and a trip to Worlds on the line.

Same thing if you're playing Reversal and I'm not. Hit your Reversals and kill my Blaze ex's while they're still Torchics and you're sitting pretty. Miss them and you're cooked. Either way, the coin, not your skill, decides your fate. I seem to be in the minority here, but I just don't want to play under those circumstances.

I wouldn't object to Reversal if it were truly "costed" rather than "randomized". For example, if it were a no-flip Supporter, it would work every time, but the cost would obviously be that you couldn't play any more Supporters that turn.

Your skill as a player would be brought into play then. You would have to decide if paying the cost is worth the benefit in your particular situation at the moment. You would have to look at what you have in play and in your hand. Look at what your opponent has in play. Look at how many cards he has in his hand and estimate the probability that he has what he needs to start hitting hard when it's his turn. Based on your knowledge of your own deck, decide whether or not you think that Forest Guardian, Bill's Maintenance or Oak's Research will get you what you need.

Decide whether or not you can afford to let your opponent's Grimer stay on the bench undamaged for one more turn while you use Elm's Training Method to get the Combusken you need to go with that Firestarter Blaze you're already holding.

Once you've evaluated the game situation, then you have to decide which Supporter helps your immediate situation the most. Make the right decision and you enhance your own chance of winning. Make the wrong one and you put yourself in a bind. Either way, it's your skill, not the coin, deciding your fate. IMHO, that's the way it ought to be.


davechri said:
While not as good as DG, Reversal has decent balance (although I wish there were more of a downside to flipping a tails, something like "discard an energy from one of your Pokemon" or something).

You don't think missing the effect is downside enough?? Wow.

I'd like to see Double Gust back. Using that card requires skill. You have to build your deck and manipulate your own bench so you can pull out who you want and not let your opponent pull up someone with a retreat cost of three and no energy on it--or sucker him into doing just that only to negate his move with a Switch.

Again, this game should be about skill and strategy, not about flipping the most heads or getting a head at a critical time. Reversal as it is now played is a huge step in the wrong direction.
 
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I liked double gust and I still run it in my unlimited deck. I tried pokemon reversal in two tournaments and found that it was a gaurenteed 2 cards missing from my deck (I ran 4), and the times it worked were more to semi- get me out of trouble than to get me a KO. IMO- not worth it.
 
Reversal is luck based, and in this format, that's really risky. It depends on what you are cutting out of your deck to make room for the Reversal. If its draw, you're probably not going to like Pokemon Reversal. If its energy, you lose on a bad start because you won't draw into energy often. There aren't many things that can be dropped without losing consistancy, and this I think makes reversal a bit balanced. Everyone won't play it. Fast decks with mroe room will, and this helps the format a bit.

Yeah, in some ways its going to be making people mad, but that's on both sides. You can win games potentially by playing reversals, and u can also lose on them.
 
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