Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Worlds 2011 LCQ info up!

One other thing that no one has noticed is that the format allows us to play 3 less rounds. Since there is not a need to crown a LCQ champion the tournament will end when there are eight players remaining. It also means that if there are extra slots available, TPCi could increase the invites to 16 :thumb:
 
It's sad to see everyone bashing this. Players have complained for YEARS that 2-out-of-3 Swiss should be brought into light to avoid so many "flip double unown q, who ever goes first wins" kinda games. LCQ seems like the best possible event for P!P to try it out. And yet everyone is focusing on the negatives. If it really goes all that badly, given how perceptive they've been of players recently, they probably won't do it again the year after. I for one am glad they are trying this out at all, and trying it out in a more competitve tournament. Sure there will be problems with it, but aren't there problems with EVERY way P!P could run the event?
 
Another thing I feel is getting overlooked is that it's best 2 of 3. ONE loss won't eliminate you. Two losses won't even eliminate you unless they are in the same round. I think it's a lot more fair this way, because it takes the game further away from luck (bad starts and stuff) and pushes for more skill. I'm excited!
 
PokePop said:
The Grinder is not a normal Pokemon event.
It's not an event unto itself, where the tournament is the focus and playing all day for fun is the point.

No, the Grinder serves one and only one purpose: To give a last chance for a few players to earn the last invites into the World Championship. Unlike all other Pokemon tournaments, playing it out for fun is not the point.

The Grinder is a tremendous strain on the staff. Making a change that reduces that strain is a good thing. It will keep the staff fresher for Worlds, which is the point of the whole weekend.
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While I don't totally disagree with the basis for Pop's statements, I would like to point out that in practice, for a great many people, the grinder was very much a stand alone event. Because of the way grinders have been run from the very first one, they have become what a lot of people look forward to at Worlds. We get attendance in the hundreds, and to be honest I really doubt that all those people actually think they have much of a chance to get an invite. They are there for the experience, playing in a huge event AT WORLDS. As I started out saying, I don't dispute that the true reason for the grinder is to give a last chance to a few people to get a worlds invite, but if it accomplishes that while providing something else as a side benefit to hundreds of people then I think it is a win-win.

One last point I'd make to illustrate my point is that many years ago we had a grinder that ran until the wee hours of the morning. They used to start in the afternoon to facilitate travellers, so they ran pretty late. Sometime past 1:00 AM I looked over to the masters division and there were still people sitting at tables in the high 100's - and they were smiling, laughing and having a GREAT time. Did they think their sleep deprivation would yield a Worlds invite at that point? I don't think so, but they found the experience worthwhile. To them the grinder WAS their Worlds experience.

As to the staff having to work hard on the grinder, sure they do, but what a great learning experience for judges. There are very few huge events that judges can use to hone their skills and the grinder is one of them. Over the years changes have been made to the timing and staffing assignments to address the strain on staff. Speaking only for myself, as a person who has worked every grinder ever held, I am totally willing to work as long as it takes for as many people as we have. However, change often yields improvements and the best of 3 is a huge positive change that would not be as doable in Swiss play for a huge mass of people. We shall see ...

BDS
 
I would like to agree with most of BDS's statements. (He has me beat by one grinder working)

I am going to be a bit sad to see the "fun" players lose the opportunity to play against players from around the country and around the world if they get knocked out, but I have faith that this will INCREASE the number of side events, and league play that we see, still giving a really neat experience to Worlds.

It will definitely give a different flavor to the grinder this year, but is a great way to look at 2/3 in a controlled manner.

Vince
 
People are saying that this will make grinders fast but with the amout of people who will be there its gonna be a bunch of rounds and its 1 hour plus all the sudden deaths there will be.
 
I actually like this decision. Well, I guess I'll say I think it is a good one. I think I agree that " double elimination, 2/3 " is best. That said, I'd much rather see 2/3 single elimination than swiss being 1 game. So its an improvement, even if it isn't ideal.
 
I think this makes sence, in the end it always worked like this but with b03 the whole thing become way mora valid and representing.
 
I believe it is a good thing. I would much rather know right away and play in a less stressful side event or league for fun. Plus as a grindee of the last one in San Diego getting out before midnight would of been swell. People always complain about what they are not used to or what is new. I think this is really, really something people have to try before dissing.

I know I am much more comfortable playing 2/3 knowing I have to go undefeated then playing swiss knowing I can lose to random donks and bad starts. One of the biggest downsides would be potentially knocking out friends.. especially if you play the last round when normally you will both make it as undefeated and x-1.

Will this actually save time though?
457 228ish 114 57ish 28ish 14 ish 8ish? so 7 rounds. Last time in sandiego there was 8. 30*8 is 4 hours. 45*7 is 5.25 hours. None of this includes the extra turns or the sudden death in single elimination or turn around time. Or random fire alarm pulling :p. They could flight but if they do that they have to take 4 from each making an extra round of elimination and causing that to be pointless.

If the point is to save time I don't think it should be happening. But I like it regardless. One of the things I don't understand is how it will handle awkward numbers like above. No one should be getting byes in single elimination as they are way to over powered. Looking forward to seeing how it goes.
 
Let's not lie to ourselves. The grinder was basically single elim anyways... they just let you play it out to make you feel better. If you lost before round 5, you didn't have a good enough resistance to make cut unless that lost was to the X-0. 2 of 3 format makes this even better as donks won't be as amazing. It was painful to lose round 3 to getting donked, and then trying to recover the tournament. This change only makes the single-elim feature of the tournament more obvious and it makes it less donky. It may actually save time :O That would be fantastic to be done before night. I'm all for this change. It makes the grinder more Last Chance and more Grindy. Now that that change was made, I am going to have to push myself to make invite through nats or ratings. Moreover, this change basically requires the invites given out to be 2^x. We are certain top 8, so we may see top 16, but I doubt anything past that. Moreover, this format suggests a cap of 256 or 512 (maybe even 1024). While I dislike caps, it reminds us (once again), that we failed to get into worlds through nats and ratings, so this event is our last chance.
 
I'm pretty happy about this decision, both because I would have dropped from the grinder after losing 2 games anyways, and it will deter people from traveling to SD for the grinder, thus increasing my chances of making it in. :lol: *also insert judging reasons here*
 
I dont understand the rage about this, the grinder has always pretty much been single elimination, since you have to pretty much go X-0 for an invite. If anything, this allows you to lose one game without being knocked out, unlike in the previous years.
 
LOLZ said:
That is interesting, anyone have any idea why?
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Probably due to the massive amount of time it takes. It also mitigates the people who are all "I have an ID, but I don't know what it is, can you look it up for me?"

The grinder is not designed to be your (generic you) first ever tournament. If you don't have a POP ID, that means you've at best never played in a tournament and at worst never played at league before, and if that's the case, the grinder is absolutely NOT for you. It's not like there's a shortage of other tournaments to play in that weekend.
 
While double elimination might be preferable, this seems like a valid decision provided the other fun side tournaments have their support expanded to handle the additional day 1 influx.

Realistically, the argument I see for double as opposed to single elimination in best-of-three is the chance that the true #5 player gets paired against the true #1 player entered, and thereby one of the two, despite both being in the "top 8" of true skill, does not get an invite. I know this grows more likely as rounds wear on (assuming they make it to the advanced rounds), but at the same time, how large are the odds of such an occurrence?

Others on this site have a much better grasp of the theoretical mathematics behind tournament structure (NoPoke, in particular), and so I'll yield to their knowledge.
 
I've seen/been on both sides of this (actually 3 sides). I played in the SD grinder in '05. I sat down for my 5th rd match at 3-1. I thought I might have a chance if I won that rd. The staff then announced that this was the last rd and only 8 slots would get in (MAs). Knowing the math, it would only be the 8 unbeatens. The 3-1's were bummed. I didnt care if I won or lost at that point. I was there to watch my son play Worlds in JRs anyway (he had the paid invite).

In '06, my son moved up to SRs and traveled with me to Anaheim to try and grind in. I was invited to staff that yr. After the grumbles of the previous year, the LCQ would be swiss w/ top X making it. My son started out 5-0 and was one of the last 4 unbeatens. In the previous yr, he would be in! Knowing the math, I knew only the 7-0 and all the other seven 6-1's would make it. Alex lost rd 6 to the ultimate 7-0. He then lost rd 7 to go 5-2 and finish 9th. Only 8 made it.

As a staff member for a number of Worlds, I know the strain on the staff is great, even though the players are having fun in 2-4 land. (The top players knew they were out with 2 losses). Fewer matches to watch as the rds dwindle and become more important is a nice thing, meaning more eyes to watch those fewer games.

As for the players who enjoy playing others from around the world in the later rds (and with marginal records), you can do that ALL WEEKEND....it is called SIDE EVENTS and LEAGUE. Shoot, you can play pick up games all the time in the free play area. Its what the staff do after hrs, if they have any strength left LOL.

Keith
 
This is a GREAT change and allow me to tell you why.

Worlds is meant to represent the BEST of the best, not the guy who plays uxie donk and lucks his way to an LCQ invite. Example, Matt Lambou from Lousianna is a GREAT player, in 2007 he played a flukey machamp deck in the grinder, T1'd 8 people and got an invite. he ended up doing horribly in the main event.

This format already favors the lesser players with decks that are unbelievably easy to use and one can have great results with (See LuxChomp). For the past few years this game has really lacked a deck that takes a great ammount of skill to play (2004-2008 are examples of good formats). Hell, half the time games end on t1 or t2 these days (e.g. "Seeker, KO GG").

I can hear people already saying, "What does this have to do with anything?" Well it's simple, best of three USUALLY favors the good players(that's why theres so many mediocre players on here complaining about this). It's a well known fact, that is why the same people win tournaments year after year. Once cut starts, you can't simply donk me and move on(well, I got t1'd twice in t4 of states this year, but that's an extreme example).

Another reason this move is fair? With the black and white rules most likely being implemented after regionals, there will be an INCREASE in no skill donk decks (did I mention this is the worst format I've ever played in 10+ years playing PTCG?) Without Best of 3 in the grinder there would be way to many Sour Grapes of people who got T1'd by Uxie donk or Sableye rush.

Time is a moot point on this. Game is going to speed up so much with the release of Black and White rules(before slowing down immensely next year when Uxie and SP are rotated).

Either way, I view this as "P!P"'s way of attempted to give something back to the players to make up for this horrendous format.

Steve

(Anyone who takes offense to my post and is looking for an arguement may as well move along. This is the first time I've logged into this site in about 3 months, and likely won't be back till after Nats. So GL getting a response from me)
 
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