Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Worlds 2011 LCQ info up!

^XD oh ya, luxchomp is just a super noob deck, anyone can pick it up and just win. Why do people think that they have to apply the new B/W rules right when the set comes out, yes they should but it would make the format suck so they will prob wait till after rotation to do it.
 
Adding even more stress to a very stressful and cutthroat event is simply asking for bad sportsmanship from players and emotions running high. The dynamic of the grinder completely shifts when a single bad matchup ruins your shot at worlds.

Best of 3 might help mitigate the impact of a donk, sure. But single elimination? Double at least - I don't want a grinder full of conservative decks with decent matchups across the board. Not only will it be stressful now; people will be bored. Nothing will replace a worlds invite in the grinder but being out of the running after r1 is ridiculous.
 
No, the Grinder serves one and only one purpose: To give a last chance for a few players to earn the last invites into the World Championship. Unlike all other Pokemon tournaments, playing it out for fun is not the point.

Couldn't one argue that is pretty much the point of any tourny above BR?
 
Couldn't one argue that is pretty much the point of any tourny above BR?

Only for some players. For most players, and for Pokemon, each event is an EVENT in and of itself.

The Grinder is not a sanctioned tournament. It is not promoted. There is no Logo for it.
There are no prizes for it, save the prize that is its sole function, the invites.
There are no trophies. No medals. Not even any door prizes.

No, not the same thing as a Premiere event at all.
 
Interesting decision. I can see the purpose. People pointlessly paying with a 3-3 or worse record just to have something to do. Clear out the room and get ready for tomorrow faster.

Would be better in my opinion to do a double elimination just to smooth out some weakness/resistance luck of the draw match ups.

Maybe even play single games in the winners brackets. Lose and go to the losers bracket. Once in the losers bracket play the 2 out of 3 for final elimination.

It may make the event even more exclusive, as it has been trending the last few years. Less people may travel as they may perceive this as an event that they have no real chance.

The plus side is a Bye really works in your favor!

But it is what it is and a chance is better than no chance.
 
I find this move surprising to say the least by POP. They are always touting about how they want everyone to be able to play all the rounds they want because the game is fun. This is obviously an inconsistent move given their intentions. Also, I would have found this type of move to be a more logical decision in 2006; the year after only letting 5-0s in through the 2005 LCQ and having everyone complain about it (and rightfully so). While the 2/3 matchplay is definitely an improvement, I find some major flaws with this decision.

First off, this has the potential to be a disaster if the amount of invites awarded are an odd or really, any weird number. Considering 24 invites were awarded to Masters in 2009, I would expect the number to be around that range. And everyone thought I was crazy when I said the Grinder would award between 16-32 invites that year, also. Let's take a look at something:

256 Masters show up (no way will it be this low):

R2 128 players remain
R3 64 players remain
R4 32 players remain
R5 16 players remain
R6 8 players remain

If there are only 8 invites, then you must 5-0 to get into Worlds. An obvious problem arises if say 24 invites are awarded. How can there be an opponents win percentage if it's single elimination? There can't be!

Another potential problem arises if there are not exactly 256 Masters (or any other age group) because 256 is the "dream" number that eliminates most potential problems. Example:

356 players (a much more realistic number)

R2 178 players remain
R3 89 players remain
R4 OOOPS we have to give someone a BYE at 2-0, WHAT?!

Now, pretty much everyone on here gives a nonsense response to a well-thought out post like this and a common quote is "well have you got a better solution?". Yes I do!

Magic: The Gathering (oh no, he's going to THAT again!) does their Grinders in a way that ALWAYS works. They are run with flights of 32 players. Funny, because Wizards of the Coast used this type of thing back during the original Super Trainer Showdown Mall Tour Qualifiers (or at least, they did in California) so it does have some ties with our game.

Anyways, MTG starts Grinders at a designated time and allows only 32 players to register in each "tournament". The last remaining player (or maybe two) from each is given an invite into said event. If a player is knocked out they may enter another Grinder throughout the day and another after that, and so on. Is this a problem for MTG? No. Does MTG have more players and more potential of a problem given that there are only 32 players in each Grinder? Yes. Could it work for Pokemon? Absolutely, and it makes more sense given our "unknown" number of invites. Example:

Pokemon does not yet have everyone pre-registered for Worlds 2011 and thus does not know exactly how many invites will be awarded for the Grinder and it is about to start. They start running some Grinder tournaments. After a few are completed, Pokemon announces there will be 20 invites given out. Now, the only potential problem with running separate tournaments is that there may not be enough time to run them all. That is why there needs to be an exact number prior to beginning them. Do I think this can be done? Yes, why couldn't it? And wouldn't it be easier for one or two judges to handle a 32 person tournament at a time?

Just my thoughts.
 
I Another potential problem arises if there are not exactly 256 Masters (or any other age group) because 256 is the "dream" number that eliminates most potential problems. Example:

356 players (a much more realistic number)

R2 178 players remain
R3 89 players remain
R4 OOOPS we have to give someone a BYE at 2-0, WHAT?!

I've never run a single elim tourney in TOM, but a would bet money that it does all the byes in round 1 so that round 2 will ALWAYS be a base 2 number of players left.
 
This looks like a good idea because donks suck. lol.

I think we will see more worthy players at worlds then some people that donked there way through the LCQ.
 
Other than Lambou in 2007, I don't think I've really seen that many people "donk" their way through LCQ...Just sayin'.
 
After your first loss, the Grinder becomes just a "fun tournament" for you.

As for each round, I haven't read this thread so it may have been discussed, but I'll bet that each "best of 3" round will be limited to 1 hour. So we're probably looking at about 7 rounds and 10 hours.
 
I find this move surprising to say the least by POP. They are always touting about how they want everyone to be able to play all the rounds they want because the game is fun. This is obviously an inconsistent move given their intentions. Also, I would have found this type of move to be a more logical decision in 2006; the year after only letting 5-0s in through the 2005 LCQ and having everyone complain about it (and rightfully so). While the 2/3 matchplay is definitely an improvement, I find some major flaws with this decision.
Not a bad idea, but just to clear up a few mistaken premises that you have

First off, this has the potential to be a disaster if the amount of invites awarded are an odd or really, any weird number. Considering 24 invites were awarded to Masters in 2009, I would expect the number to be around that range. And everyone thought I was crazy when I said the Grinder would award between 16-32 invites that year, also. Let's take a look at something:

256 Masters show up (no way will it be this low):

R2 128 players remain
R3 64 players remain
R4 32 players remain
R5 16 players remain
R6 8 players remain

If there are only 8 invites, then you must 5-0 to get into Worlds. An obvious problem arises if say 24 invites are awarded. How can there be an opponents win percentage if it's single elimination? There can't be!
You're assuming that Pokemon will have to invite as many Masters as needed to fill out the full amount of empty slots available. They don't. They can leave spaces open in the World Championship if people didn't come. So they can very easily keep the number of invites awarded to 8, or 16.

Another potential problem arises if there are not exactly 256 Masters (or any other age group) because 256 is the "dream" number that eliminates most potential problems. Example:

356 players (a much more realistic number)

R2 178 players remain
R3 89 players remain
R4 OOOPS we have to give someone a BYE at 2-0, WHAT?!
As others have pointed out, the software awards byes in Round 1, so after round 1 there will be a perfect number of players.

Now, pretty much everyone on here gives a nonsense response to a well-thought out post like this and a common quote is "well have you got a better solution?". Yes I do!
Way to denigrate anyone's reply before they even make it!

Magic: The Gathering (oh no, he's going to THAT again!) does their Grinders in a way that ALWAYS works. They are run with flights of 32 players. Funny, because Wizards of the Coast used this type of thing back during the original Super Trainer Showdown Mall Tour Qualifiers (or at least, they did in California) so it does have some ties with our game.

Anyways, MTG starts Grinders at a designated time and allows only 32 players to register in each "tournament". The last remaining player (or maybe two) from each is given an invite into said event. If a player is knocked out they may enter another Grinder throughout the day and another after that, and so on. Is this a problem for MTG? No. Does MTG have more players and more potential of a problem given that there are only 32 players in each Grinder? Yes. Could it work for Pokemon? Absolutely, and it makes more sense given our "unknown" number of invites. Example:
There are going to be 800+ masters playing in the Grinder. Maybe 1000+. That's the number to work off of.
If you give an invite to every 32nd player, you're going to wind up with 30+ invites.

Pokemon does not yet have everyone pre-registered for Worlds 2011 and thus does not know exactly how many invites will be awarded for the Grinder and it is about to start. They start running some Grinder tournaments. After a few are completed, Pokemon announces there will be 20 invites given out. Now, the only potential problem with running separate tournaments is that there may not be enough time to run them all. That is why there needs to be an exact number prior to beginning them.
Again, you're assuming that they will be raising the number of invites. I don't think they will be. I think they will keep it at 8. Unless there is some issue with a huge number of invited players showing up.

Do I think this can be done? Yes, why couldn't it? And wouldn't it be easier for one or two judges to handle a 32 person tournament at a time?
Easier for the judges? Yes. Easier for the computer people, registration people, area management people, runners and so on? No. There's a lot more to running a tournament than just the judges.
 
This is the best Idea Ever.

I respectfully disagree. As the mother of a 7-year-old girl who's been playing since she was four but at seven isn't in Pokemon's "elite" class I absolutely cannot subject her to this. The whole notion throws Spirit of the Game right into the toilet and flushes it. Let's say I do spend the two/three hours in line for registration, and she wins her first match. Now she feels horrible for "kicking someone out of the tournament". Let's say she loses. Now she feels bad for "not being good enough". There will be a lot of tears from the Juniors and that's not what I want my daughter to associate with Pokemon.
 
I respectfully disagree. As the mother of a 7-year-old girl who's been playing since she was four but at seven isn't in Pokemon's "elite" class I absolutely cannot subject her to this. The whole notion throws Spirit of the Game right into the toilet and flushes it. Let's say I do spend the two/three hours in line for registration, and she wins her first match. Now she feels horrible for "kicking someone out of the tournament". Let's say she loses. Now she feels bad for "not being good enough". There will be a lot of tears from the Juniors and that's not what I want my daughter to associate with Pokemon.

Worlds isnt for every player. As a parent, you have to make the decision as to what is best for your child. The times my oldest has tried to grind in, he knew the odds were not in his favor. His 1st try, after being in Worlds as a JR, he was an 11 yr old, recently aged up to SR....he went 5-0 to start in '06 in Anaheim. Then, he lost his last 2 to finish 9th. They only took 8 that yr in SRs. He was upset when he found out the news. But, he got over it quickly and moved onto other things at worlds and still had a blast. There are lots of things to do at worlds other than the LCQ.

I will decide if my youngest will make the trek with me to Worlds this year. It is his last in JRs. The game gets tougher for him starting next season. But, we will decide that as a family and if he wants to go, not bc the LCQ is a single elim tourney.

Keith
 
Wow just wow. Pokemon is seriously TRYING to kill off all the competitive players, seriously? Traveling all the way to San Diego than losing 2 games and being out? I don't even want to go to Worlds now, this just sounds nerve racking and a horrible waste of time, way to go POP, you even manged to mess this up.
 
Wow just wow. Pokemon is seriously TRYING to kill off all the competitive players, seriously? Traveling all the way to San Diego than losing 2 games and being out? I don't even want to go to Worlds now, this just sounds nerve racking and a horrible waste of time, way to go POP, you even manged to mess this up.

You can be a competitive player, but that doesn't mean you deserve to be in worlds. The grinder is for the elite who missed they're invites, and they know that if they go to the grinder in this format, they very well may not make it in with all the donks and coin flips going around.

The grinder is go big or go home. You just have to pick a deck you're comfortable with, and make it as consistent as possible. If you don't like it, don't go.

What Steve said was completely correct imo. The only ones who are complaining here are mediocre players and probably don't deserve to make it through the grinder.

Suck it up
 
This is the biggest insult to the players ever

This is the single worst decision made since four years ago when they tried to eliminate the grinder all together before Japan got upset about it and rescued it from the trash bin. So now they have got their wish and have destroyed the Grinder so the "riff raff" will stop showing up the World Championships.

I hope they will be happy with all the crying Juniors (and lets face it some Seniors and Masters players) who get faced with an autoloss matchup in the early rounds and then get told that they are no longer going to be allowed to compete. I mean what if you are playing Regigigas and your 1st round is vs Machamp SF or Donphan Prime? For that you deserve to be out of the tournament? We play Pokémon because we enjoy playing the game but they keep limiting our chances to so. Before we could play in more then 2 states and 1 regional’s. Now we can’t. Before we had an end of the year Pokémon Celebration where everyone could go and have one last big event with their decks before the format change, now its gone. Face it the Grinder is DEAD. Yes there is this LCQ Luckfest, but the grand Grinder itself is no more.

I have always told the parents of the new kids in our league (and I help run the largest Pokémon League in Washington State) that one of the "Good" things about playing Pokémon is that the tournaments are all about fun, and playing Pokémon and so even if their children are new to the game and still learning the ropes, they can go to tournaments and have fun playing and after a few rounds they will find some more competitive games as they reach the players of similar skill.

Now with the Grinder being torpedoed into a Yugi-oh style event, what’s next? Nationals takes too long so lets move that to single elimination also?

This is a truly horrible decision and it really seems that Play! Pokemon has finally jumped the shark.

For many people the Grinder was their worlds. It was their one chance a year to play against players from all over the world. And to rip this away from people this late in the season. (Very dubious timing to boot)
is horrible customer service. But again we have the main issue. The leadership at Pokémon does not treat us as their customers, instead the players are treated as employees, and our bosses are the ones that run organized play. It is clearly obvious that no one in charge had any understanding of Customer Service at all.

It is sad the ones in charge display the least amount of Spirit of the Game.
 
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I don't agree with this decision; because single elimination in a grinder is disrespect to the players who are not in the U.S. I'm from South America, a long way to go there and if I lose early for random reason (donked, bad luck, etc) and i can't play anymore all the day, i'm waste my time, my money and a memorable moment for me, for not worth going there for luck to play

I speak for all players who are not in the U.S. you do not disrespect us!!!
The LCQ must be swiss rounds... the grinder is part of the world championship!!!
 
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