ZERO is now well nothing....

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by NoPoke, Jan 16, 2004.

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  1. NoPoke

    NoPoke Active Member

    In a trading card game long long ago zero was always considered to be a legal number. So you could shuffle zero cards into your deck if your hand had zero cards.

    But things seem to be changing...

    == FAST BALL (Skyridge)

    Q. When using Fast Ball, if the very first card you turn up is an
    evolution, do you still have to shuffle your deck?
    A. If FastBall pulls an Evolution Card as the first revealed card, the
    deck is not shuffled as there are no as there are no "other revealed
    cards" to shuffle back in. (Jan 15, 2004 PUI Rules Team)

    well before you would still shuffle the deck but not any longer .

    so what now with similar game effects? Like Copycat. With zero cards to shuffle in do we no longer shuffle when in the past we would? Or worse with no cards to shuffle are we now unable to even play the card? There are some rullings that indicate that if you can't do everything then you get to do nothing.

    Why change it? It wasn't broke and unlearning old rules isn't easy. :(

    Come on lets leave ZERO the way it was..
  2. Joe Monkey

    Joe Monkey New Member

    Yes zero is a numbuh. If they say you need at lest one card in your hand to play copycat, then thats messed up >_<
  3. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    We actually had a long discussion about this ruling and initially a lot of us were thinking that you would shuffle your deck.
    However, it came down to comparing the rulings on Prof. Elm and the rulings on Lass.

    Prof Elm says to shuffle your hand in, which is a Zone. The Zone always exists and so you would always shuffle since the "Hand" always exists.

    The Lass rulings was that if there were no Trainers revealed, then there were no Trainers to shuffle into your deck and therefore you didn't shuffle. There was no "Zone" of "Trainer cards.

    Fast Ball was similar to Lass. You shuffled "other revealed cards" into your deck. If there are no "other revealed cards", there is nothing to shuffle and so you don't shuffle.

    It's not a change like the Energy Search ruling.
    THAT is a big change.
  4. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    This is over three years old.
  5. Joe Monkey

    Joe Monkey New Member

    What is the hand? Are we playing the hand or is the hand playing us? 0_o deep

    Yeah the "zone" thing makes sense.:D
  6. Adv1sor

    Adv1sor New Member

    Maybe, someday Saved by zero ...
  7. GymLeaderPhil

    GymLeaderPhil New Member

  8. Joe Monkey

    Joe Monkey New Member

    "Get in your zone!" last years them
  9. NoPoke

    NoPoke Active Member

    I know about Lass... but Lass always seemed to be the exception to how zero was handled. There are many more examples where zero is considered a valid number for shuffling.

    there are several rullings in the compendium about zero... I'll put together an arguement for both sides. (even though I'm biased!)
  10. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    NoPoke: I'll be glad to see them. We're not married to a ruling if it's not right.
    As I noted, many of use were on the side of shuffling until we considered existing rulings further.

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