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Author
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Topic: InSaNe Boost Wiggly
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Pie
Member
Member # 123693
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posted January 23, 2003 08:27 PM
[Deck can be found at bottom]
Hey all, this is Pie here.
I took a look at the Aquapolis set about a week and a half ago and came upon one of the three special energy cards - Boost energy
which reads...
[Boost Energy]
" Attach Boost Energy to 1 of your evolved Pokemon. At the end of your turn, discard Boost Energy. Boost Energy provides [CCC] Energy. As long as Boost Energy is attached to a Pokemon, it can't retreat."
Now, this may or may not catch your eye, for one the CCC should draw some attention but as expected there are some obvious drawbacks in the text. Flaws aside I felt this was a card with great potential.
So, I scoured through each pokemon in Aquapolis, and other expansion sets through Apprentice's filter, I could find no real match. So I looked back to my base set days...Charizard? Hmmmm, very much no, who else? The Dragonite evolution family, not exactly. Then, in probably one of the most unoriginal cards, I found my answer, in the plump Wigglytuff.
Over the last couple of days I have figured out more and more that this matching - between Wiggly and Boost Energy - is probably one of the best and most solid combos in the entire game of pokemon.
I'm sure I'm not the first one to see the connection...I mean c'mon Do the Wave - CCC...Boost Energy CCC, but what I feel hasn't been delved into is the many ways in which this combo is remarkably potent.
The peak of Speed Tuff came with the release of the Team Rocket expansion set. Here, Wiggly found Rocket's Sneak Attack, which better suited its goal of a fast second turn Wiggly than Lass (Although most still included Lass because of it's sheer greatness). Now, the Tuff could RSA your Oak or Computer Search and go on its merry way instead of waiting until the Do the Wave Combo was set up and THEN having to Lass their opponent.
But What am I trying to get at? Boost Energy allows the Speed Tuff to Lass without having first already set up for Do the Wave.
How is this? You know that card called Cleffa...yea, its kinda good. The thing is, you have to put an energy on it to eek. Boost Energy says, "Ok, I can handle this" and proceeds to put CCC down on the Wiggly second turn WITH the advantage of having Lassed and eeeked already.
Here is a typical scenario - Cleffa is active, you plant a jiggly on the bench, play lass or search for lass, place in energy on cleffa and eeek. Next turn it is almost guaranteed that you can get your hands on either Wiggly and/or Boost Energy or the searching means to find them.
This is a great way to open up a game having lassed and eekeed and next turn having the potential to do goo gobs of damage with the aid of a large bench and PlusPowers.
Either way even if you can't or don't want to plant the Boost Energy you still have a huge advantage.
Boost Energy in this way makes Lass a very effective means of disruption without the degree of drawbacks that it had on you before.
Boost energy also makes Wigglytuff unstoppable sans a knockout, you can SER or ER him all you want but you must know that I can attack next turn for 60+. Do you understand how defeating this can be? Imagine facing a Wiggly, you drop a Pokemon Tower and SER it's DCE and Recycle away, next turn ploop KO to almost any pokemon you have on the table =\.
Which brings me to my next point. Initially I said Boost Energy had some drawbacks, one of those you might have thought was that you have to discard it at the end of your turn. Well, this is also a strength of the card. No one can touch it. It's here and then it's gone. Your opponent can't remove it from you, they simply just have to take that huge and fast damage and hope you can't get your hands on another one or that you can't put it right back into your deck. So as you see this drawback isn't neccesarily all that bad.
So without further adieu here is the first InSaNe Boost Wiggly. I've gone through many changes thus far and this is what I presently have
InSaNe Boost Wiggly v1.7
Pokemon(17)
4 Cleffa
4 Scyther
4 Jigglypuff
3 Wigglytuff
2 Sneasel
Nothing too special here, Cleffa is self-explanatory for it's eek/lass combo. Scyther is here to make sure I can get Cleffa into the active position if I do not initially draw him. As you will see the deck has enough searching options to warrant only 3 Wigglytuff. Sneasel is here because I felt I needed 6 Scythers in a sense, he is not here for his Beat Up attack - although I do include some Darkness Energy - 6 "Scythers" or free-retreaters make the first turn eek almost a certainty. 70 and 60 HP for Scyther and Sneasel respectively are also good HPs for first turn defense, I believe they are the highest among basic free retreaters and if I am wrong please let me know.
Trainers (27)
4 Professor Oak
4 Computer Search
4 PlusPower
4 Lass
4 Energy Charge
3 Chaos Gym
2 Item Finder
1 Power Charge
1 Double Gust
Good card drawing power, Lass will find its way into your hand when you need if, if not you can probably find it. Energy and Power Charge get your special energy back, as it is sure to be removed. Speaking of removal, Why didn't I include No Removal Gym. For one, I don't think the opponent would mind discarding two cards from their hand to dismantle a Wiggly, I just don't, Chaos Gym in the turns following a Lass makes your opponents competing Gyms virtually unplayable unless it pops into their hand. Chaos does not have to be played, just because its there, it is great in simply defaulting say a Pokemon Tower or Sprout Tower.
Energy (16)
4 Boost Energy
4 Double Colorless Energy
4 Recycle Energy
2 Darkness Energy
2 Rainbow Energy
Now, this is probably where I see my deck changing in the near future - the energy. Boost, DCE, and Recycle energies are all fine but I'm not so sure about the other two. since I have Sneasel (Neo Genesis) I said I might as well put in Darkness/Rainbow Energy if the Beat Up combo is more easily accesible than Do the Wave, also Scyther has the Swords dance possibility. In Wiggly's case the Darkness acts as a temporary, albeit suicidal PlusPower. Some might call this TeCH, and those people would be right =\. Still it may be a bit unstable and I might end up tanking it for 4 Full Heal Energy.
So there you have it, it runs something special this deck.
But, it is worth noting that it's at times not the smoothest of rides.
like any Speed or InSaNe deck you will end up sacrificing some key cards in your hand through oaking for positon at times.
This is normal, it has been like this sense the first InSaNe inspired decks were formulated right here or...should I say at the original Pokegym.
Thanks for Reading, and feel free to reply with any thoughts of course.
[Pie]
[ January 24, 2003, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: Pie ]
From: Seattle, WA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Mori
Member
Member # 122839
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posted January 24, 2003 04:51 AM
Have you thought about combing this Boost Energy with Ecogym? It would protect it from discarding it by your opponent. Unfortunatly, not from its discarding after each turn. You had a great idea with combing Wigglytuff with BE. Make your deck great and think about Ecogym.
See ya-
Mori
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If you have nothing to say,
shut up.
From: Koszalin, Poland | Registered: Jan 2003
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darkest raichu
Member
Member # 113987
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posted January 24, 2003 09:06 AM
very good deck ![[Cool]](cool.gif) it looks like you put a lot of work into it .i think it might work a little better if you played slowking instead of the sneasel and scyther thats just a thought though it will keep them from removing your dce
From: at my computer | Registered: Nov 2002
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Pie
Member
Member # 123693
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posted January 24, 2003 12:39 PM
I didn't mention Ecogym because if you look closely in the text it only prevents removal of Non-colorless Energy cards, this is great f or Darkness and Metal Energies but not for DCE and boost Energy. Boost Energy also can't be removed by your opponent unless you drop a Chaos Gym and play ER or SER - of which the deck has none - and don't get the flip.
Slowking eh? Hmmm it'd make it kinda tight with 2 evolution families, especially seeing as the deck needs room for fast trainers. But Thanks...Cleffa/Lass seems to accomplish the same effect - although not to the degree of Mind Games - but in less required cards.
[Pie]
From: Seattle, WA | Registered: Jan 2003
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trainer C
Member
Member # 121357
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posted January 24, 2003 04:10 PM
Hey nice deck! It seems to be strong. If you play your deck right you can do some a lot of damage.
The only suggestion I have is replace chaos gym with no removal gym. I to have a sneasel deck, "Claw Hazard", and I play no removal gym. But I play ecogym to. Ecogym would'nt work in your deck though.
But like I said nice deck. Keep up the good work.
Trainer C, creator of the "Dark Matters" deck, fear to bench your babies!!!!!
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Trainer C A.K.A. Fox
Switch, It's all in the mix!
Wins: To many to count!
Loses: Every good player must loose to learn.
#07 Electabuzz
From: Modesto CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Johnny Blaze
Member # 234
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posted January 24, 2003 04:51 PM
Just watch out for any rougue Light Dragonite decks. Those essentially will shut down your entire strategy.
I love the energy charges and 1 power charge. even though they are flips if you can hit 2 per game and the opponent has exhausted all their removals you have won. It also helps to replenish your deck.
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Johnny Blaze at the 2000 ECSTS
MTM vs. Johnny Blaze at the MBI2
From: Clifton Park, N.Y. | Registered: Feb 2001
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mkymws
Member
Member # 2337
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posted January 24, 2003 11:02 PM
jamal?
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jovial evil
From: orange islands | Registered: Mar 2001
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mysterioustrainer
Member # 1049
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posted January 25, 2003 12:44 AM
I think you have an Unlimited Archtype potiential. I might encourage the following changes however:
- 1 Wigglytuff
- 1 Jigglypuff
- 1 Scyther
- 1 Double Gust
- 1 Power Charge
- 1 Chaos Gym
+ 1 Sneasel
+ 2 Darkness Energy
+ 3 Gust of Wind
I don't know, I am going to have to playtest this first and see how it fairs, but good job in the original.
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~Myst
www.freewebs.com/mysterioustrainer
Check out my personal website. Includes my ideas for decks my own fake cards, GB Teams, links to Ebay auctions, main trading page and much, much more.
1748 DCI Rating
Top player in state of Wyoming (Hmm. Could have something to do with the fact that the other four players in the state haven't played in over two years?)
From: Wherever the adventure takes me! | Registered: Feb 2001
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Pie
Member
Member # 123693
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posted January 25, 2003 11:06 AM
I did consider the rare Light Dragonite deck that I might come across, but I didn't feel the need to metagame for it in the actual deck list, instead I believed I could metagame...in game.
For Miraculous Wind to Work, Light Dragonite has to be in play and it has to be active. This is a scenario that isn't going to happen before Wiggly comes into play second turn after hand disruption. In beginning to end game, I'll probably have the resources to drop a recycle and dce on Wigglytuff, at this point the Miraculous Wind power isn't very useful.
Also I'm still looking for an official ruling. Will Miraculous Wind turn Boost Energy's CCC to one C? I'm under the impression that it still would provide CCC as the card says "It provides C energy instead of its usual type". In fact Miraculous Wind could help Boost Energy Wiggly because if Boost Energy stays on Dragonite then it too should stay on Wiggly. Either way I think the deck is more than ready for Dragonite.
After some more "goldfishing" I decided the deck needed more draw power, but not destructive draw power. So...Secret Mission was out the door, Professor Elm would not allow me to play Lass if I ended up drawing it, Bill was a great card back in the day but I needed more draw potential per deck spot, and Copycat isn't consistent.
So, I've Settled with...
+2 Professor Oak's Reasearch
-2 Rainbow Energy
-1 Power Charge
+1 Darkness Energy
Professor Oak's Reasearch seems to be the best choice as it's a constant 5 cards, I can play trainers following it, and I can usually decide how much I want to shuffle back into my deck.
Mysterioustrainer, if you have any suggestions from your playtest with the original please feel free to share any direction you feel the deck needs to go.
From: Seattle, WA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Crobat1
Member # 85086
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posted January 25, 2003 11:37 AM
Great posting. Good ideas.
I played Wiggly at Worlds and did well (top 8 unlimited sidegame--actually undefeated before the playoffs; 9th place in Professor's tourney).
There are 3 dangers to Wiggly: Unown N; Sprout Tower; Tyrogue.
You must play 2 Igglybuffs to combat Unown N.
You must play stadium cards other than Chaos Gym to combat Sprout Tower. I found that I was in control of virtually all of my games--and Chaos Gym would have slowed me down.
And then there tyrogue. The entire strategy involves using Scyther against tyrogue and Wiggly against everyone else. I was 11-2 with a tie against good opponents using this strategy combining the two events.
I plan to use it at SBZ.
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Bilbo Baggins: "Every worm has its weakness."
Crobat2:
Winner, Syracuse SBZ, Feb, 2003
22nd Place, 10 and Under, World's, August, 2002
Winner, Friday's Open Modified Event, Origins, July, 2002
Winner, 10 and Under Gym Challenge, Milford, May, 2002
Crobat1:
Winner, Albany SBZ, May, 2003
9th Place: Professor's Tournament at World's, August 2002
Top 4, Theme Deck Tournament at World's, August, 2002
Top 8, Unlimited Side Event at World's (Undefeated in Main Draw), August, 2002
From: Binghamton, NY | Registered: May 2002
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Strike
Member # 201
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posted January 25, 2003 11:43 AM
Very interesting strategy there. Il ike it, but I think the deck needs a little retooling.
first off, take the sneasels out ( I have other plans for the dark and rainbow energies).
hrrr....this may take too long so I'll ust redo the deck to how I feel it could be more efficent.
Pokemon:17
4 Cleffa
4 Jigglypuff
3 Wigglytuff
2 Scyther
2 Pichu
1 Chansey
1 Erika's Jigglypuff
Trainers:30
4 Oak
4 computer Search
4 Item-finder
3 Lass
3 Pluspower
3 Energy charge
2 Gust of wind
1 Chaos Gym
3 Copycat
1 Nightly Garbage run
2 Focus band
Energy: 13
4 Boost Energy
4 DCE
4 Recycle Energy
1 Rainbow energy/ Warp energy
There, the deck should start running better for now. Chansey can easily abuse the boost energy as well if you need to and pichu is standard power killing strength if you need it. This one packs a lot of tehcnical cards too, but then agian Wiggly has been a deck that can support a lot of tech cards so it won't be hard.
I will be testing this too hopefully, so I'll fill ya in if anything else develops.
--------------------
3rd place WCSTS 2001 Day 1 15+
1st place WCSC Professor Draft!
8th place Wizards/Professor
Challenge at Worlds!
SBZ Senior Champion- Mission Valley, Ca, Feb 15th, 2003
SBZ Champion- Mission Valley,CA May 24th, 2003
The Terror of San Diego!
In a world of all the same decks, only the teched versions will win.
Now a professor as well
From: San Diego, Ca, Usa | Registered: Feb 2001
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Pie
Member
Member # 123693
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posted January 25, 2003 01:49 PM
Crobat1 - Unown N is definitely a problem but adding two igglybuff doesn't seem neccesary, most decks with unown n only include one or at most two, double gusting it for the do the wave even if it's -30 can still kill it with a PlusPower(harder of course if they have focus band). (Also, Sneasel can become a secondary offense)
to that end I may need more double gust.
Slowking is another story.
I do agree with you as far as Gyms go. Three Chaos may or may not be enough to combat Sprout Tower and/or Pokemon Tower. What do you suggest be another Stadium to include?
I could add 1-2 Magby or 2 Igglybuff in place of 2 Scyther since I still have free retreaters in his place, which is very key to the deck.
Strike- Boost Energy cannot be played on Chansey, and I'm not sure that this deck, as a colorless deck, can survive with only one Stadium card, Chaos Gym at that. Four Item finder is also always dangerous. It seems to be taking the deck into an entirely different direction...which is okay but it seems less effective and vulnerable to any opponent with Sprout Tower or Pokemon Tower and a decent ER line, which is very common.
From: Seattle, WA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Strike
Member # 201
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posted January 25, 2003 02:44 PM
Whoops, I must have never seen that. Forgive me, I didn't read boost energy clearly enough. anyways, given a quick review, I'll try this one again.
anyways, I had figured with boost, it would be easier to evade SER and ER players.hmmm.....
Pokemon:16
4 Cleffa
4 Jigglypuff
3 Wigglytuff
2 Scyther
2 Pichu(can be igglybuffs depending on enviroment)
1 Erika's Jigglypuff
Trainers:31
4 Oak
4 computer Search
3 Item-finder
3 Lass
3 Pluspower
3 Energy charge
2 Gust of wind
1 Chaos gym
2 Gyms of your choice, since everyone would have their own taste considering this.
3 Copycat/ or professor oak's research
1 Nightly Garbage run
2 Focus band
Energy: 13
4 Boost Energy
4 DCE
4 Recycle Energy
1 Rainbow energy/ Warp energy
I had never found the problem of 4 item finder, from play testing, actually it usually strengthed a deck's reability to gain control in the end phase of the game.
anyways, I adjusted the item-finders to 3, tho personal playstyle got the best of me here. Chansey was taken out since you told me about my little mistake in regarding what it would do. Anyways, from that I adjusted gym counts to 3, forgetting sprout tower in the first place.
The main goal now should be just to get wiggly going at it, hopefully with a Recycle or DCE, or with a boost in case you need speed in special circumstances. ER/SER shouldn't be such a huge threat with Lass and Energy charges despite the charges being a simple flip.
Your ideas in sneasels are an interesting one, not including them for beat up but for that 60 hp. However, I bring this question to you- what more can that sneasel do considering what it can do provided the resources for it? pokemon powers and such are a much more significant threat the fact sneasel is a free reteat 60 hp seems much less advantageous instead of other major factors, especially conserning the opponent.
Anyways, hope this one is able to help you more than my previous views on it.
--------------------
3rd place WCSTS 2001 Day 1 15+
1st place WCSC Professor Draft!
8th place Wizards/Professor
Challenge at Worlds!
SBZ Senior Champion- Mission Valley, Ca, Feb 15th, 2003
SBZ Champion- Mission Valley,CA May 24th, 2003
The Terror of San Diego!
In a world of all the same decks, only the teched versions will win.
Now a professor as well
From: San Diego, Ca, Usa | Registered: Feb 2001
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Pie
Member
Member # 123693
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posted January 25, 2003 03:02 PM
I decided to drop Sneasel, since if I need to use him, I'm basically "losing" in a sense. In his place there are 4 Scythers and 1 Magby. I also dropped Sneasel because it was tempting to include rainbow or darkness energy, which is problematic because only he could use it. I would find myself having to Computer Search for a Recycle Energy to put on Cleffa, which I could have used for finding something more important, usually a Jigglypuff. Adding 3 Full Heal Energy in its place makes the deck run a lot smoother.
I added 1 more Double Gust, kept the 2 Professor Oak's Researh, and subtracted one from the Pokemon count
The logic behind this is that with more searching power I could find Lass as well as get to other cards.
InSaNe Boost Wiggly v2.0
Pokemon(16)
4 Cleffa
4 Scyther
4 Jigglypuff
3 Wigglytuff
1 Magby
Trainers (29)
4 Professor Oak
4 Computer Search
4 PlusPower
4 Energy Charge
4 Lass
3 Chaos Gym
2 Double Gust
2 Professor Oak's Research
2 Item Finder
Energy (15)
4 Boost Energy
4 Recycle Energy
4 Double Colorless Energy
3 Warp Energy(changed from Full Heal Energy)
It's funny that in making this a better deck it is becoming less and less insane. I remember V1.0 had 4 Plus Power, 2 Strength Charm, Darkness Energy, 4 Energy Charge, and 2 Power Charge...wow.
Strike - thank you for sharing your new configuration, I like it and I will definitely give it a try and compare playability with mine.
[ January 27, 2003, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: Pie ]
From: Seattle, WA | Registered: Jan 2003
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PsycoDad
Member # 40531
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posted January 25, 2003 03:08 PM
Pie
Cool deck.
As far as Light Dragonite, this is from the last chat:
"Light Dragonite is active with Pokemon Working. Will Boost Energy work the same way as Miracle Energy. Miracle Energy is not discarded at the end of the turn because Light Dragonite's Pokemon Power erases all the text on the card.
darkmt_mike says, "Yes it will!""
Miracle provides 2 so boost will provide 3.
A second turn Light dragonite is possible with boost & breeder. It is easier to get wigglie though. As far as your deck, I might drop 1 scyther for a tyrogue in case you face a mirror match or fable.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif) PsYcOdAd
From: Shelby, Michigan | Registered: Aug 2001
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Pie
Member
Member # 123693
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posted January 26, 2003 11:47 AM
Yea, Tyrogue is nice, but mirror matches always tend to depend on - for the most part - who gets going first. I will consider this...
[Pie]
From: Seattle, WA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Crobat1
Member # 85086
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posted January 26, 2003 12:42 PM
Your deck is getting better and better.
A few additional thoughts.
I play 2 Igglybuffs for one reason: I always assume that one of any card may get stuck in my prizes. I personally don't fear Slwoking--but still--2 Igglybuffs is insurance. You do not need 4 Scythers. No one resists Wigglytuff. You simply need 2 scyther to combat fighting pokemon (mainly tyrogue). I like to play Elekid for those times when Wiggly is super energy removed and stuck up for a turn or two--when I don't feel like using the sleep attack.
Warp energy is better than Full Heal energy--which is why I keep trying to get them at the trading post.
The jury is out on stadium cards. I used Rocket's Gym at the World's--mainly to punish opponents who were playing cat and mouse. It actually wound up hurting me more than them.
Now--believe it or not--I've gone to Lucky Stadium. Why? It gets me those gusts and plus powers when I need them.
Also, if the opponent plays 3 Slowkings and I have only 2 Igglybuffs, Lucky Stadium increases my odds of being able to use a trainer from 50% to 62.5%. Pokemon is a game of probabilities.
I play 4-4 in Jiggly-Wiggly. Why? Again, I assume that one of either may be in the prizes and I do 95% of my battling with Wiggly.
And finally, put in one strength charm instead of a plus power. You're not playing any other tools so one strength charm has no down side. Advantage: when you begin with a Jiggly, double colorless, and computer search against a baby to start the game--you can search for the strength charm and go for the FTKO knowing that if you get a tails, the strength charm will still be there for the STKO.
--------------------
Bilbo Baggins: "Every worm has its weakness."
Crobat2:
Winner, Syracuse SBZ, Feb, 2003
22nd Place, 10 and Under, World's, August, 2002
Winner, Friday's Open Modified Event, Origins, July, 2002
Winner, 10 and Under Gym Challenge, Milford, May, 2002
Crobat1:
Winner, Albany SBZ, May, 2003
9th Place: Professor's Tournament at World's, August 2002
Top 4, Theme Deck Tournament at World's, August, 2002
Top 8, Unlimited Side Event at World's (Undefeated in Main Draw), August, 2002
From: Binghamton, NY | Registered: May 2002
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Pie
Member
Member # 123693
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posted January 27, 2003 10:30 PM
Small aside - in this deck, which is full of free retreaters, Warp Energy would have the same effect as Full Heal Energy, plus it helps get any vulnerable Pokemon out of the active position against Slowking/Murkrow or Vileplume/Murkrow. Really the only vulnerable Pokemon are Cleffa. Wigglytuff can knockout Krow(1-2 Darkness energy included) even if the opposing deck is playing heavy Energy Removal.
The edited deck can be found above - v2.0
[ January 28, 2003, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: Pie ]
From: Seattle, WA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Pie
Member
Member # 123693
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posted February 02, 2003 01:13 AM
Lucky Stadium eh? I think that would be overdoing it for fear of Slowking. Murkrow cannot mean look a Wigglytuff for fear of Boost Energy, Cleffa slows their mean looking down considerably, magby...let's just say he won't be mean looked for too long after a sputter agaisnt a slowking. Other than that Scyther is really the only glaring mean look bait, and I'm sure with Warp Energy we can get magby into the active spot eventually.
[Pie]
From: Seattle, WA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Dragon_Master
Member
Member # 64149
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posted February 21, 2003 02:49 AM
hm, not bad, but 4 scyther?! really dunno if it's all necessary, and by the way, copycat --> prof oaks research, in general copycat is better than this oak, even we know that copycat is situational, so:
-1 Cleffa (3 is enought)
-1 Scyther
+2 Pichu/Tyrogue (I would pick tyrogue, as anti Sneasel)
-2 Oak
-2 Oak´s research
+3 Copycat
-3 Chaos Gym
+2 Healing fields (the deck is something as OHKO, this would helps only tuff)
+1 Item finder
-2 double gust
+3 Gust
-1 PC search
+1 Town volunteers
Looks better, but if you want to add some gold berry, drop 1 more scyther, 1 magby and 1 WarpEnergy to add 3, but i think healing fields is enough.
Cya
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