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Author
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Topic: Genetic and Prehistoric Memory, Shapeshift, and other Stuff
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Onix95
Member # 103241
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posted October 28, 2002 12:42 AM
Wow, more Genetic and Prehistoric Memory questions with Brock's Ninetales. *lets out an unenthusiastic yay*
I am not sure if these questions have been answered before, and they're not on the Compendium yet, or at least I didn't see them, so here we go:
1. If I use Shapeshift to attatch a Seadra to Brock's Ninetales, then next turn I attatch a Kingdra and use Genetic Memory, do I get to use Seadra's attacks? (going with current rulings on the cards, and any updates)
2. If I use Shapeshift to attatch a Genetic Memory Kingdra to Brock's Ninetales using Shapeshift, then on the next turn attatch an Expedition Charmeleon, then on the following turn attatch a Charizard (doesn't matter which), using an Aerodactyl's Prehistoric Memory or a Recall trainer card, can I use Genetic Memory from Kingdra to use Flamethrower for a single colorless, since I am using the attack as a Charizard from a Charmeleon who is an Evolution of Charizard? (going with current rulings on the cards, the self reference ruling, and any updates)
From: Honolulu, Hawaii | Registered: Aug 2002
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BJJ763
Member # 158
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posted October 28, 2002 04:47 AM
1) Has never officially been answered. But i would rule that you could use Genetic Memory to access an attached Seadra's attack. Here is the ruling from the Prof's mailing list (09/16/2002) that i base it on:
quote:
. If Aerodactyl is in play (POKEMON POWER: Prehistoric Memory Whenever an Evolved Pokemon attacks (even if it's your opponent's), it can use any attack from its Basic Pokemon card of any Evolution card attached to it. It still has to pay for that attack's energy cost. This power stops working while Aerodactyl is Asleep, Confused, or Paralyzed.) and a Brock's Ninetails is in play (POKEMON POWER: Shapeshift Once during your turn (before your attack), you may attach an Evolution card from your hand to Brock's Ninetails. (This doesn't count as evolving Brock's Ninetails.) Treat Brock's Ninetails as if it were that Pokemon instead. It can't evolve, devolve, or use the Pokemon Power of that Pokemon. During your turn, you may discard the Evolution card attached to Brock's Ninetails. This power can't be used if Brock's Ninetails is Asleep, Confused, or Paralyzed. If Brock's Ninetails becomes Asleep, Confused, or Paralyzed, discard all Evolution cards attached to it.) with evolution cards attached to it, can you use any of the attacks on Brock's Ninetails, Brock's Vulpix, or other evolution cards attached (not the one Brock's Inetails is treated as)?
Previous ruling for Recall (For your attack this turn, your Active Pokemon can use any attack from its Basic Evolution card or any Evolution card attached to it. (You still have to pay for that attack's Energy cost.)). Q. If Brock's Ninetales has several other evolution cards attached, can Recall be played to use any attack from any of those evolutions (assuming you meet the attack's other requirements)?
A. No it cannot. Brock's Ninetales will never count or be able to count as any previously attached evolution cards (for its shapeshift power) that are still in play. (Nov 16, 2000 WotC Chat)
Answer: The previous ruling is overruled. Using Recall OR the Aerodactyl's Pokemon Power, you can use the attacks on any attached evolution cards.
Since Recall/Prehistoric Memoory allows you to use any attached card, Genetic Memory should allow you to access an attached Seadra's attacks. But no one's ever asked about having a Seadra attached to Brock's Ninetales when doing Genetic Memory.
2) No. Genetic Memory only allows you to access attacks from a prior stage of Kingdra, which would only be a Seadra. Course with the above ruling, you could use Flamethrower if you still had enough energy on Charizard.
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From: Warwick RI USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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slowdad
Member
Member # 66088
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posted October 28, 2002 07:26 AM
My take on your first question is that Kingdra can only use attacks from "Kingdra's Basic Pokemon card or Evolution card" , and since it got in play without evolving, it has no earlier forms technically associated with it. A Seadra which happened to be attached to the same Brock's Ninetales would have no particular relationship to Kingdra.
The language on Aerodactyl's PP is a bit more lenient ("or any evolution card attached to it"). I'm guessing that this one will pass. Same thing with the Recall trainer, which has the "or any evolution" language as well.
From: Watsonville CA | Registered: Feb 2002
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted October 28, 2002 08:08 AM
Interesting. Upon searching the stacks:
quote:
master_trainer_mike presents the speaker with question #120 from ikendall:"Brock's Ninetails counts as the latest evolution card that is attached to it." Since Exp. Alakazam copies Kadabra's/Abra's attacks when using Genetic Memorey off of Kingrda, wouldn't a Brock's Ninetales use Vulpix's attacks when it has a Kingdra atta
master_trainer_mike says, "You are making my head hurt."
master_trainer_mike says, "Here's the answer gang, the Pokemon company does NOT want you to use these cards together, period."
master_trainer_mike says, "So, we do our best to try and make these cards work together when they are, in fact NOT designed to do so."
master_trainer_mike says, "Please do not spend all of your time trying to come up with rules conundrum,s in this game, they exist."
master_trainer_mike says, "Brock's Ninetails is no longer legal in Modified."
master_trainer_mike says, "As for Unlimited, I guess you will need to make your own choices for some of these crazy combos."
master_trainer_mike says, "Realistically I doubt they will ever come up in play BUT if you something like this were to ever happen, you would have to make your own beszt guess in most cases anyway."(10/10/2002)
and:
quote:
master_trainer_mike presents the speaker with question #471 from ikendall:You have a Brock's Ninetales with several Evolution cards attached, the most recent of which is Kingdra (revelation). What attacks could you access via Genetic Memory? Just Vulpix (since Ninetales' power does not count as evolving, so Kingdra is now t
darkmt_mike says, ""Punt""
master_trainer_mike says, "You could NOT choose any atacks on any of the other cards in your example. Genetic Memory ONLY lets you use attacks from Kingdra's basic or evolution cards and there aren't any of these in this example."(9/19/2002)
Take that as you will.
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AIM: yoshi1001
From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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SteveP
Member # 14743
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posted October 28, 2002 08:16 AM
Interesting question. FYI, here's the text for Genetic Memory:
quote:
(C) Genetic Memory - Use any attack from Kingdra’s Basic Pokemon card or Evolution card. (Kingdra doesn’t have to pay for that attack’s Energy cost.)
Like slowdad said, Kingdra has NO knowledge of Seadra. In fact, Kingdra only has knowledge of Brock's Vulpix as it's Basic Pokemon.
Nevertheless, this is a tricky one. Even though I'd probably rule like slowdad, I can see an official ruling going either way.
(Edit after reading yoshi's post):
It looks like there IS an official ruling.
[ October 28, 2002, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: SteveP ]
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From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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Onix95
Member # 103241
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posted October 28, 2002 05:35 PM
Going back to what BJJ763 said about Genetic Memory only allowing you to access the attacks from a prior stage of Kingdra, wouldn't that change, since the Charizard is on top, wouldn't the attack read in this case, "Use any attacks from Charizard's Basic Pokemon card, or Evolution card. (Charizard doesn't have to pay for that attack's Energy cost.)" going with the self reference ruling?
Here's the situation of attatchment from top to bottom:
Charizard
Charmeleon
Kingdra
Brock's Ninetales
Brock's Vulpix
Energy Card
While a Prehistoric Memory Aerodactyl is in play somewhere.
*gets a headache from the jumbled up text and the chat log* ![[Dubious]](../tcg/graemlins/dubious.gif)
From: Honolulu, Hawaii | Registered: Aug 2002
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slowdad
Member
Member # 66088
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posted October 28, 2002 07:18 PM
Nice try, Onix95, but remember that Brock's Ninetales does not allow evolution cards attached to it to evolve. Therefore, Charizard did not evolve from Charmeleon and they are not genetically connected any more than Kingdra and Seadra were in my last post.
Prehistoric Memory gives you access to the attacks of evolution cards attached to Brock's Ninetales prior to the top one, but Genetic Memory cannot provide the energy discount you are seeking.
Any attack you use in this way (Prehistoric Memory) would retain the Type of the top evolution card and use the Cost and Effect of the attack you choose. Maybe you should concentrate on utilizing weakness by juggling the color of the top card while using a cheap colorless attack like Clefable's.
From: Watsonville CA | Registered: Feb 2002
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Onix95
Member # 103241
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posted October 28, 2002 07:37 PM
Can't blame a guy for trying, but thanks for all of your help. Now back to the drawing board to find another scheme where the rules will become questionable, strange combos will be made, and chaos will reign supreme ![[Devilish]](../tcg/graemlins/diablo.gif) well, after dinner anyway... ![[Cool]](../tcg/cool.gif)
But really, thanx for your help, before I came to this board, many questions were left unanswered and many things have gone askew at the local league, and with the rulings from here and the compendium, we are finding that many games and whole tournaments could have been completely turned around.
From: Honolulu, Hawaii | Registered: Aug 2002
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Lord_Ninetales
Member # 386
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posted October 29, 2002 06:01 AM
Heeheehee, all those chat questions were mine!
I guess I just like to bring awkward questions to light.
Incidently, my view of Kingdra on Brock's Ninetales would be that Kingdra may only use Brock's Vulpix's attack(s):
Since Shapeshift says Brock's Ninetales "becomes" that Pokémon ("Treat Brock's Ninetales as if it were that Pokemon"), Kingdra and Ninetales are the same Pokémon, which evolved from Vulpix.
Therefore Kingdra's (which is REALLY a Shapeshifted Ninetales) Basic Pokémon is Vulpix, and it has no Stage 1 Pokémon because it (really Ninetales remember) IS a stage 1 Pokémon.
This, I feel, would be consistent with the Exp. Alakazam/Kingdra ruling (Alakazam using Genetic Memory uses Abra/Kadabra's attacks).
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From: Glasgow, Scotland | Registered: Feb 2001
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ukpokemonpro
Member # 518
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posted November 30, 2002 01:29 AM
Ah but in the end as has been said Not in Modified you don't....
Me I would rule it wouldn't work based on my head hurting ![[Wink]](../tcg/wink.gif)
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From: Gillingham, Kent, UK | Registered: Feb 2001
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