|
Author
|
Topic: Gold Berry
|
Mudkip
Member
Member # 122005
|
posted May 10, 2003 10:37 AM
The text on Gold berry reads:
At any time between turns, if there are at least 4 damage counters on the Pokémon Gold Berry is attached to, you may remove 4 of them and discard Gold Berry....
This is what the first part says, if I'm correct, at ANY time in my turn or in my opponent's turn, I can remove 4 damage counters from 1 of my Pokemon? or is it at the end of every turn, that i have 4 damage counters? It is really confusing, but if i read it right, then I should be able to remove 4 damage counters from my Pokemon, at any time during my opponent's turn, before he attacks, or when I have 4 damage counters after my opponent attacks... please help me clarify this... i lost a GBA SP because my croconaw got KO'd, because i didn't remove the gold berry when my turn finished...
From: Mexico D.F | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Orange Soda
Member
Member # 19838
|
posted May 10, 2003 11:01 AM
Between turns means during that time between your opponent's turn and your turn (or vice versa).
--------------------
I'm crushed. The fans are crushed. Orange Soda is Crushed Orange Soda!~Gengar
Orange Soda Online
From: University of Missouri-Rolla | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
WizPog_BJJ
Member # 113374
|
posted May 10, 2003 11:31 AM
"Between turns" refers to the period of time from the end of your turn until the start of your opponent's (and end of your opponent's turn until the start of yours). This period of time is when Posion damage is done, Burn check is done, waking from Asleep is done, Paralyzation is over, Char check is done, and Darkness Energy damage is taken (if applicable). At any point during this time, if there are 4 (or more) damage counters on the Pokémon, you can remove 4 damage counters and Discard Gold Berry.
Now an important thing to remember is that if there are 4 (or more) damage counters on the Pokémon at the start of your turn or the start of your opponent's turn (the point right before a card is drawn), 4 damage counters MUST be removed and Gold Berry MUST be Discarded. At this point in time, it is mandatory that Gold Berry be activated, if there are 4 or more damage counters on the Pokémon.
--------------------
The Compendium
WizPog Posting Rules
Wizards.Community Code of Conduct
From: Warwick RI USA | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Carrington388
Member
Member # 139065
|
posted May 10, 2003 12:10 PM
But it's useless should a KO be scored before Gold Berry can be used. I prefer Super Potion (Unlimited) or Moo-Moo Milk (Modified) myself, because you can still use it if the Pokémon you wanted to use it on is KO'd.
From: DataDyne | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
321FlipsAreCool123
Member
Member # 124883
|
posted May 10, 2003 03:18 PM
Goldberry is NOT optional, even if you forgot it the game needs needs to be rewound and the Gold berry has to activate, once again, It's NOT optional. So if you lost because you forgot then you really didn't lose
FlipsAreCool ![[Devilish]](../tcg/graemlins/diablo.gif)
--------------------
Heads I Win, Tails You Lose.
Tyrogue is my Hero.
I once won 3 out of 5 game in a single tournament with Tyrogue.
11-14 Winston-Salem SBZ Winner
2nd Place Overall
From: Raleigh NC | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Maverick Hunter Zero
Member # 6223
|
posted May 10, 2003 04:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Carrington388:
But it's useless should a KO be scored before Gold Berry can be used. I prefer Super Potion (Unlimited) or Moo-Moo Milk (Modified) myself, because you can still use it if the Pokémon you wanted to use it on is KO'd.
o_O
Er, if a Pokemon is KOed, their damage counters are removed, and the Pokemon is discarded. HOW, pray tell, do you plan to use a Super Potion or Moo-Moo Milk on that?
Precisely, can't be done.
--------------------
http://www.mhzs-lair.com
AIM: MasterHunterZero
[email protected]
http://mhz.deviantart.com
It's not cowardly to run.
It's futile.
kachu Pika piii Kaa pi pikachu?
From: The strange, frightening world known as "SoCali" | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
yoshi1001
Member # 825
|
posted May 10, 2003 04:49 PM
But they can be used with less than four damage counters on the Pokemon, thereby preventing the KO.
--------------------
Visit Pokéwatch!
Listen to PIRN, the Pokémon Internet Radio Network. We have interviews with Master Trainer Mike, Kierin Chase, and more, as well as your favorite Pokémon music! PIRN: The number 1 Pokémon Internet Radio Station!
PIRN: The Magazine
PIRN Message Boards
GCAbGEbGF
AIM: yoshi1001
From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mudkip
Member
Member # 122005
|
posted May 12, 2003 02:58 PM
so, in my case, the game would've had to be rewounded so that i had to remove four damage counters right? i sould've gotten a caution or warning, but i would've HAD to remove those 4 damage counters right???
From: Mexico D.F | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Pikachu6492
Member
Member # 139184
|
posted May 12, 2003 03:51 PM
Your game would have only needed to be rewound if you forgot at the start of your turn to remove the damage and the gold berry to the discard pile. If you forgot it at the end of your turn, and your opponent knocks out your pokemon on his turn, there's nothing you can do. At that point, it's too late.
From: Pokemon world | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
PokePop
Member # 8
|
posted May 12, 2003 05:11 PM
Why would it be too late to rewind?
You rewind what you can. Removing 4 damage counters seems very rewindable.
Note, just to be sure there isn't a misunderstanding: If you had less than 4 damage counters on your Pokemon and your opponent's attack KO'd you, you don't get a chance to activate the Gold Berry before the KO.
The above posts assume that you had 4 damage counters on the Pokemon at the end of your turn, forgot to use the Gold Berry, and then on the next turn your opponent KOd you.
--------------------
"This kind of makes you miss the compendium..." - Martin Moreno
The Compendium: http://pkcompendium.hypermart.net
Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Carrington388
Member
Member # 139065
|
posted May 12, 2003 05:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Maverick Hunter Zero:
quote:
Originally posted by Carrington388:
But it's useless should a KO be scored before Gold Berry can be used. I prefer Super Potion (Unlimited) or Moo-Moo Milk (Modified) myself, because you can still use it if the Pokémon you wanted to use it on is KO'd.
o_O
Er, if a Pokemon is KOed, their damage counters are removed, and the Pokemon is discarded. HOW, pray tell, do you plan to use a Super Potion or Moo-Moo Milk on that?
Precisely, can't be done.
Use it on another Pokémon. With Gold Berry, that can't be done as the card is lost.
From: DataDyne | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mudkip
Member
Member # 122005
|
posted May 12, 2003 08:05 PM
yep, my croconaw had exactly 4 damage counters on it and a gold berry, at the end of MY turn, i forgot to take away the gold berry, the HEADJUDGE was the one that told me I had to leave my croconaw like that, and that it was impossible to remove the 4 damage counters, because i forgot at the end of my turn... damn, i wanted that gameboy sp alot... ![[Mad]](../tcg/mad.gif) ![[Frown]](../tcg/frown.gif) oh well, there's nothing i can do right now, is tere? ![[NoNoNo]](../tcg/graemlins/nonono.gif)
From: Mexico D.F | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
procrastination_alley
Member # 106884
|
posted May 14, 2003 09:40 AM
So just for clarification, you forgot to use the gold berry at the end of your turn. That much we know for sure. After that point, your opponent knocked out your croconaw, correct? Before you got another turn? If that was the case, unfortunately, I would rule that your game didn't need rewinding. It's certainly too bad that it happened that way but I'm sure it's happened to most, if not all of us at one point or another. ![[Blush]](../tcg/graemlins/blush.gif)
From: Utopia, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
SteveP
Member # 14743
|
posted May 14, 2003 09:55 PM
Um, IMO, this is a tricky one. If you forgot to use the Gold Berry in-between turns, but suddenly realized this forgotten action when your Pokemon is KO'd, I'd say you blew it. Nevertheless, if the judge can assertain that your opponent knew you forgot to use the Gold Berry and took advantage of this, the judge might rewind.
Finally, the Penalty Guidelines highly discourage rewinding a game if a number of actions have occured since the occurance of the procedural error (even if all those actions can all be rewound). It's MUCH better to continue play and use the Gold Berry in-between the next turn. Of course, this assumes that the error was 1) unintentional, and 2) unnoticed (by both players).
--------------------
Proud member of Team PokéParents - we play Pokémon with our kids!
From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
PokePop
Member # 8
|
posted May 15, 2003 06:37 AM
The way I look at it, it is both player's responsibility to make sure the GB got used. In order to "rewind", you don't need to affect any other action in the game than removing the counters and voiding the KO (which was the last "action").
I don't like to reward a player for letting the other player make an error (of a mandatory sort) that helps them.
--------------------
"This kind of makes you miss the compendium..." - Martin Moreno
The Compendium: http://pkcompendium.hypermart.net
Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
NoPoke
Member # 42315
|
posted May 15, 2003 11:50 AM
Unless I was called over after the croconaw had been knocked out.. prize taken, card drawn and the turn had moved on. then I would unwind the gold berry error by discarding it and removing 4 damage counters.
As Pokepop has pointed out it is BOTH players responsibility to ensure that mandatory actions take place. A judge will endevour to ensure that mandatory actions are done when trying to correct a procedural error. The inability of a judge to correct an ommited mandatory action is one of the indications that a severe procedural error has taken place and the prize-swap penalty may need to be applied. FWIW I don't think that a failure to use a gold berry should be sufficient to triger the prize-swap penalty. It ought to be possible to unwind the error.
--------------------
========================================
'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS
some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL
-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------
'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.
From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
SteveP
Member # 14743
|
posted May 16, 2003 10:37 AM
NoPoke, just for clarification, I think a prize-swap penalty (game-loss in match play) only occurs if there's been a significant amount of disruption caused by the procedural error. Generally speaking, forgetting to use Gold Berry doesn't fit that bill, even if you can't unwind. So, I agree with you (for a different reason) that there's no prize-swap penalty here.
PokePop, regarding your comment about "unwinding", if a player has played game actions based upon damage counters on that Pokemon with GB, the game can no longer be unwound in your example. Once again, this assumes that BOTH players didn't notice the error. But, like you said, you shouldn't reward a player for knowingly taking advantage of another player's forgotten mandatory action. Like I previously said, in that situation, a judge should unwind and/or prevent the KO. JMO.
--------------------
Proud member of Team PokéParents - we play Pokémon with our kids!
From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
PokePop
Member # 8
|
posted May 16, 2003 12:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SteveP:
NoPoke, just for clarification, I think a prize-swap penalty (game-loss in match play) only occurs if there's been a significant amount of disruption caused by the procedural error. Generally speaking, forgetting to use Gold Berry doesn't fit that bill, even if you can't unwind. So, I agree with you (for a different reason) that there's no prize-swap penalty here.
PokePop, regarding your comment about "unwinding", if a player has played game actions based upon damage counters on that Pokemon with GB, the game can no longer be unwound in your example. Once again, this assumes that BOTH players didn't notice the error. But, like you said, you shouldn't reward a player for knowingly taking advantage of another player's forgotten mandatory action. Like I previously said, in that situation, a judge should unwind and/or prevent the KO. JMO.
True. Doing something to the Damage Counters adds an element to be considered.
And maybe "rewind" isn't exactly the right term here. "Correct" fits better.
I always think of the example when DMTM was trying to resolve some card misplay and figuring out what to do when he noticed a Ditto with 5 damage counters sitting on the Bench. It didn't matter how many turns had passed since that Ditto was sitting there. It had to be KO'd (the mandatory action taken) and the results that flowed from that.
--------------------
"This kind of makes you miss the compendium..." - Martin Moreno
The Compendium: http://pkcompendium.hypermart.net
Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
SteveP
Member # 14743
|
posted May 16, 2003 01:16 PM
Yah, "correct" is a better term. But, once again, what do you do if a player takes game-actions based on those 4+ damage counters? Do you let him take-back some of those actions as part of the correction?
The Ditto example is pretty clear-cut because KOs happen immediately. The GB situation is a bit different because the trigger happens at a specific point in the game.
Anyway, my point is, "correcting" a forgotten mandatory action can be tricky at times, depending on the circumstances.
That's all from me on this topic.
--------------------
Proud member of Team PokéParents - we play Pokémon with our kids!
From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
PokePop
Member # 8
|
posted May 16, 2003 08:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SteveP:
Yah, "correct" is a better term. But, once again, what do you do if a player takes game-actions based on those 4+ damage counters? Do you let him take-back some of those actions as part of the correction?
I don't know. I'd have to have an example to see.
As you know, a lot of these go on a case by case basis. But generally, one wants to make a minimum of changes to game actions. Once you start making a chain of changes, look out.
--------------------
"This kind of makes you miss the compendium..." - Martin Moreno
The Compendium: http://pkcompendium.hypermart.net
Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
NoPoke
Member # 42315
|
posted May 17, 2003 01:24 AM
My indications of 'a seriously disruptive action':
If I can't figure out how to correct the misplay, without spending several minutes and with a low degree of confidence that my actions are appropriate. The disruption is generally to the running of the whole tournaments, delays accumulate and that is bad. Most rulings should not require 10 minutes of research!
If a deck shuffle has taken place. This one is tricky and I often end up giving the higher penalty but downgrading to take account of pokemon's lack of reliance upon how your deck is ordered.
Failing to flip for a mandatory action. Flips are a good guide as to points in the game that it is difficult to unwind past.
--------------------
========================================
'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS
some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL
-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------
'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.
From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
PokePop
Member # 8
|
posted May 17, 2003 09:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by PokePop:
[QBI don't know. I'd have to have an example to see. [/QB]
What am I... Yoda??
I meant, "I'd have to see an example"
![[cthulhu]](../tcg/graemlins/cthulhu_green.gif)
--------------------
"This kind of makes you miss the compendium..." - Martin Moreno
The Compendium: http://pkcompendium.hypermart.net
Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
