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Author Topic: Strength Charm ruling must be changed!
matthewssandslash
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posted October 25, 2002 10:45 PM      Profile for matthewssandslash   Email matthewssandslash    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
After the Strength Charm ruling, I'm thinking: "Wait a sec, doesn't TPC control the rules? Don't they tell Nintendo what to say on the card-swipes?"

Explain this, then...

"It doesn't work on Benched Pokémon, though." -- Strength Charm swipey thingie.

???

Wouldn't the card take precedence over the ruling?

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And for anyone who cares, I discovered the Strength Charm misruling. You all won your STS', but I discovered the strength Charm misruling. So there.

From: Here, I think... I'm not sure though. =/ | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
IPGeek21

Member # 184



posted October 25, 2002 11:14 PM      Profile for IPGeek21   Email IPGeek21    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Not necessarily.

Whatever WotC says Goes.
WHY? Cause they say so.
Can it change, sure...
WHY?
Cause WotC will say so.

Logic? nuh uh, ain't here... THAT we can THANK TPC for.

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From: The here, BUT WHERE shall we go? | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
LizardOTC

Member # 124



posted October 26, 2002 03:51 AM      Profile for LizardOTC      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I just LOVE the Strength Charm ruling!
Bench-damaging attacks are now a viable mainboard strategy again! There are just so many possibilities for hunting and bench-wrecking now...

Your babies aren't safe anywhere, at any time...

[ October 26, 2002, 03:55 AM: Message edited by: LizardOTC ]

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From: The Vast Midwestern Waste | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
SauroN

Member # 373



posted October 26, 2002 03:59 AM      Profile for SauroN   Email SauroN    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I dunno why you like the ruling...

I HATE IT! slowking decks own all now.

Me: weee. bench 2 Igglybuff's!
Opponent: weeee. pichu active, strenght charm zzzzapppp...ko the buffs...

=/

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LizardOTC

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posted October 26, 2002 04:26 AM      Profile for LizardOTC      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
That, my friend, is why I just built an Umbreon/Espeon/Muk deck! Mwahahahahahahahahah!

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"Sewage Portrayed As Meat...It's not just for breakfast anymore!" -LizardOTC

"Like a bad tooth and an unsteady foot is confidence in a faithless man in time of trouble." - Proverbs 25:19

From: The Vast Midwestern Waste | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted October 26, 2002 04:45 AM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Say it with me, folks-enforcability. The reader is not legal in tournament play, which makes it difficult to prove your case if it's your only source for your position (this probably wasn't the only factor, but it probably figured in).

Obviously there are ways for WotC to get around the problem, but generally it's better to leave things as they are. Just my take on the situation.

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Otaku

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posted October 26, 2002 10:25 AM      Profile for Otaku   Email Otaku    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
So far, I am in favor of the ruling, and hope they don't errata it. Since you can only use one Strength Charm per turn, it gives a much needed boost to othherwise week Pokemon, like Dark Ursaring, Dark Marcargo, and Magneton.

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From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
NoPoke

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posted October 26, 2002 11:28 AM      Profile for NoPoke   Email NoPoke    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I can see why Wizards would not allow the e-reader thingy if only for the reason that WotC don't control its release. No e-reader in Europe yet (officially that is), while most of Europe is allowed to use e-card. But not France Italy or the UK, no e-card for us (officially that is)

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From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
BJJ763

Member # 158



posted October 27, 2002 06:39 PM      Profile for BJJ763   Email BJJ763    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Several reasons why the E-reader isn't allowed at Sanctioned Tourneys:

"Let's use Chansey's coin flip to decide what happens. And it's....oh wait my batteries just died."

"Let's use Chansey's coin flip to decide what happens. And it's Heads!! Yes!!!"
"What Heads, i can't see the screen, tilt it towards me."
"Look Heads. See right there."
"I can't see it - the glare from the lights. It looks like tails to me."

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From: Warwick RI USA | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Olorin the White
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posted October 27, 2002 09:26 PM      Profile for Olorin the White   Email Olorin the White    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Well, I can tell you what I do:

I go by the latest and greatest Advanced Rulebook and Master Rulings UNLESS the actual text of the card conflicts, regardless of errata.

Here is an example: if the Pokemon Power of Snorlax says nothing about being protected from BURN or CHAR, then he can get burned or chared.

As for Special Conditions turning off Pokemon Powers, only if it is stated as such on the card.

For example, BURN would not turn off Snorlax's Pokemon Power unless it is stated as such on the card, regardless of when the card was printed.

I DO NOT go along with non-backwards compatable rules or rulings. If it can be argued without conflicting with the actual text of the printed card, then fine, otherwise no.

As for using electronics, why print the e-reader stuff on the card at all if you cannot use it?
What other purpose does it serve?

As for making certain cards illegal, as far as I am concerned, any card that was printed as a Pokemon TCG card is fair game as printed as long as it is not a counterfeit.

This is how I play and encourage others to play as well. Of course I do run into certain events in which the people running it will not go along with this and I am forced to compromise, but I only do so in such situations where I am FORCED to do so.

From: Houston, TX | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
IPGeek21

Member # 184



posted October 27, 2002 11:47 PM      Profile for IPGeek21   Email IPGeek21    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Olorin The White,

BE Careful, VERY Careful. TPC was not the brightest tcg/ccg company out there. Logic is amiss and BACKWARD rulings are sometimes a must.

SO LONG if you ever RUN a DCI tourney MAKE sure you are abiding by the LATEST DCI Pokemon Floor Rules (which PRECLUDE even the LATEST RuleBooks) and Even the MASTER Rulings are not the most updated document (keeping UP with weekly Chats is highly recommended)

Good points. I must Check our COMPENDIUM for those such issues you have brought up...

Well if a JUDGE makes a ruling, THAT is the ruling...

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From: The here, BUT WHERE shall we go? | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
BJJ763

Member # 158



posted October 28, 2002 04:51 AM      Profile for BJJ763   Email BJJ763    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Orolin the white, i'd love to be in one of your tourneys with Expedition Darkness Energy.... [Devilish]

Course it would have to be an unsanctioned event. And be a one time thing.

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From: Warwick RI USA | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak

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posted October 30, 2002 07:35 AM      Profile for CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak   Email CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I'm in favor of the current Strength Charm ruling for multiple reasons:

First and foremost:

Slowking has gained its most powerful weapon yet -- the OHKOing of Igglybuffs without warning. You can just hold the Pichu/Recycle/SC in hand. As long as you have a bench slot, opponent fears...

Bench attackers get a big boost. Brock's Golbat + Brock's Protection + SC does 20 to all, done several times this can KO pretty much anything if your opp. can't get their healing Trainers out.

Dark Raichu w/2 heads...*shudder*

Murkrow can FINALLY do what it was DESIGNED to do in the first place -- One-shot babies on the bench without the flip.

Those are all the main ones I can think of for now but it's just a great all around card.

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What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.

Viva la unoriginality!

From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
CmonIWanaPLaYa
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posted October 30, 2002 08:12 AM      Profile for CmonIWanaPLaYa      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I like the fact that now I can Trample Espeon for 80 with Strength Charm and do 40 per Benched Pokemon. (Could there be another 100 damage assisted atack?) That is a 2 hit wonder on Slowking when Trampling. (Provided the flips go well) For some reason I see Harvest Bounty/TTar deck using Strength Charm! Turn 3 Destruction!!!

[ October 30, 2002, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: CmonIWanaPLaYa ]

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Ice'Cold

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posted October 30, 2002 02:58 PM      Profile for Ice'Cold   Email Ice'Cold    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
The only reason this card is not broken as hell is because it is a supporter, because of that fact this card will be a nice strong card to play but not too strong, it also makes myurkrow all the more happy which is always a good thing.

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CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak

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posted October 30, 2002 06:27 PM      Profile for CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak   Email CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Ice'Cold -- the card isn't a Supporter. It's a Pokemon Tool. Yes, you can only attach 1 per person per turn...but you can attach one to the active Erika's Jigglypuff, then one to the benched Erika's Jigglypuff, then Oak, get another one, possibly play it to a Pichu if you see Igglybuffs...

More than 1 can be played a turn -- just not to the same guy.

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What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.

Viva la unoriginality!

From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Psychic_Prof

Member # 96987



posted October 30, 2002 07:36 PM      Profile for Psychic_Prof   Email Psychic_Prof    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Strength charm will mix things up incredibly...heck it's gonna let me go rouge win. Mwahhahahahaaaah!!! ...sorry...

Anyways, back on topic.

The current ruling is fair, fine, and what the card was designed to do. Think of it. If you had a pair of brass knuckles on during a boxing match, and hit the ref...the ref woudl still feel the brass knuckles...not just your opponent.

Why complain anyways?
It's not Sneasel...it's not Slowking...Whaaa! You can't hide behind Cleffa, Tyrouge or any of the other accursed babies that you Trainer-ites and Arch-type groupies worship and adore.

Now is the age of Rouge...Slowking, Venusaur, Entei beware!!

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Using Archtypes in Pokemon would be like the Iron Chefs making a pepperoni pizza.

Creativity sets the elite from the amateur.

From: Redwood City Gym, Eureka, CA | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak

Member # 37400


posted October 31, 2002 06:52 AM      Profile for CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak   Email CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Umm...Psychic_Prof...

I do agree with the fact that this will give rogue decks that do bench attacks much more power...

But if you've read mine and SauroN's posts, this does nothing but HELP Slowking...

Forces people to play Magby instead of Iggly (They COULD play Pichu but how would they get the Strength Charm down then?)...and if Magby's Gusted/KOed, that effect ends, so unless they have a Focus on the Magby somehow there's STILL a 50/50 shot that Magby's effect will end before their turn...

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What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.

Viva la unoriginality!

From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Psychic_Prof

Member # 96987



posted October 31, 2002 07:34 AM      Profile for Psychic_Prof   Email Psychic_Prof    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Well...my reference to Slowking, Entei, etc was actually off topic [Angel] and was just idle threats to Arch-type players. (Although...I do defeat Slowking on a regular basis without Babies. (I run *A* Cleffa...more than that in inappropriate)

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Using Archtypes in Pokemon would be like the Iron Chefs making a pepperoni pizza.

Creativity sets the elite from the amateur.

From: Redwood City Gym, Eureka, CA | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted October 31, 2002 02:17 PM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
And indeed it was. A TPC game rule prevents bench damage from being adeed to, and as announced in today's chat, S. Charm adds only to damage done by the pokemon to itself and the defending Pokemon.

From Pokeschool:

quote:
master_trainer_mike presents the speaker with question #225 from pokesensei:
This is what it says when you scan the card(I just did it):"Strength Charm is a Pokemon Tool.If the Pokemon Strength Charm is attached to does damage with its attacks,that damage is increased by 10.Damage done to benched Pokemon isnt increased though"
master_trainer_mike says, "Sorry but Pat hadn't been at the meeting where this was clarified."
master_trainer_pat says, "Nuts! That is so lame!"
master_trainer_mike says, "Turns out it is a game rule that NOTHING will ever increase the amount of damage done by a bench attack."
master_trainer_mike says, "So we have had to change the previous ruling on this card."
master_trainer_mike says, "Strength Charm does NOT increase damage done to the Bench ONLY to the Defending Pokemon."
master_trainer_pat says, "Let me ask you this why would anyone play with a card that only does 10 more damage to the defending(and unlike Plus Power you can't attach multiples!)
master_trainer_mike says, "Meaning, it is now only a so-so card.........."
master_trainer_pat says, "Wow, these cards are stinkers!"
master_trainer_mike says, "This is all part of TPC's plan to bring down what they consider to be overpowered attacks and effects."
master_trainer_pat says, "I mean give us some cards we can use in a deck!"
master_trainer_mike says, "You can see that many of the card-e cards are somewhat weaker versions of attacks and effects that were previously released."
master_trainer_mike says, "This is ALSO why in Japan, you are NOT allowed to use any cards but card-e cards in their tournaments."
master_trainer_mike says, "We won;t force that here, but it is another example of how a product designed for one market, works somewhat differently in another."
master_trainer_mike says, "Interesting eh?"
master_trainer_mike says, "Me? I won;t use it."
master_trainer_pat says, "Lame"
master_trainer_pat shakes her/his head.

and:

quote:
master_trainer_mike presents the speaker with question #237 from yoshi1001:
So no bench extra for S Charm-what about self-damage?
master_trainer_mike says, "Welll, self damage would still happen because that does NOT go against any game rules."
master_trainer_mike says, "Sop the card is even MORE lame."
master_trainer_pat says, "Does't the e-reader cover that"
master_trainer_mike says, "I think you guys ticked pat off.........."
master_trainer_mike says, "or maybe I did........."



[ October 31, 2002, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: yoshi1001 ]

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pokesensei

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posted October 31, 2002 02:23 PM      Profile for Pokesensei   Email Pokesensei    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
If anyone mentions my name,I didn`t do it and whoever said I did it is a liar! [Wink]

`Sensei

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Right..not blocked that is.At least until I`m overuled by a Gameboy again!-MT Pat smarting after being overuled by a Gameboy.

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From: Out of the Box | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
LizardOTC

Member # 124



posted October 31, 2002 02:33 PM      Profile for LizardOTC      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
My reaction to this ruling:

*Off to revise about 5 deck lists*

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"No! Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

"Sewage Portrayed As Meat...It's not just for breakfast anymore!" -LizardOTC

"Like a bad tooth and an unsteady foot is confidence in a faithless man in time of trouble." - Proverbs 25:19

From: The Vast Midwestern Waste | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Prime
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posted October 31, 2002 04:33 PM      Profile for Prime   Email Prime    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
and another card bites the dust...

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From: Asheville, North Carolina | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
RULEMASTER

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posted October 31, 2002 05:16 PM      Profile for RULEMASTER   Email RULEMASTER    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Dang, just when I thought I would get a good break, BAM!, my decks aren't as powerful, and babies are generally safe again. Back to normal...

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From: Wisconsin | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted October 31, 2002 05:28 PM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Sorry, you'll have to find another way to beat babyporter. [Wink]

Well, the card still has use to me. Say a Pokemon has 70 HP. Normally I need 4 heads with comet punch to KO it (1/16). With strength charm, I need 3 or more (5/16).

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged


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