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Author
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Topic: Skyridge Umbreon vs. Fossil Muk
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TheCrossFormatKid
Member # 87741
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posted May 12, 2003 07:17 AM
Ok, i have a question regarding the two cards listed in the topic. Lets say i have an active umbreon(SR) and my opponant has an active Elekid(neo1) with a muk(fossil) on the bench. Umbreon's poke-body turns off all "poke-powers" on benched pokemon. Does this mean that toxic gas is turned off allowing elekid to use playful punch? Here is the exact text of umbreon's poke-body:
Poke-Body Dark Gaze
As long as Umbreon is your Active Pokemon, Benched Pokemon(yours and your opponant's) can't use Poke-Powers.
[ May 12, 2003, 07:19 AM: Message edited by: TheCrossFormatKid ]
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From: Hoodbridge, VA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Sands
Member # 31153
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posted May 12, 2003 08:29 AM
Remember that Poke-Bodies are Pokemon Powers. Muk turns off ALL Pokemon Powers so Umbreons power is already off while Muk is in play. This means that Umbreon cannot turn off Muk's Toxic Gas.
From: Rochester Hills, Mi. U.S. | Registered: Jul 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted May 12, 2003 08:30 AM
I would say that Muk's power would still work, and Elekid couldn't playful punch. This is based on the ruling that you can't use Goop Gas Attack to stop Dark Vileplume.
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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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BJJ763
Member # 158
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posted May 12, 2003 08:49 AM
While i currently agree Muk still shuts down Umbreon, think about how T-tars Dark Aura overrides Miraculous Wind - Local Poké-Body overrides the global effect. So it just is possible that Muk could be shut down....
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From: Warwick RI USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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NoPoke
Member # 42315
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posted May 12, 2003 08:58 AM
I think that a ruling from Japan would indicate that a poke-body takes precedence over a poke-power.
However Muk is an old card...so I'd resort to its a poke-power if it is shut down by special conditions. Its tricky because poke-powers are no longer continuous, whereas MUK's power is.
[ May 12, 2003, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: NoPoke ]
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From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001
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Orange Soda
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Member # 19838
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posted May 12, 2003 09:19 AM
Umbreon says it prevents "Poke-Powers". Muk has a "Pokemon Power". As such, I believe that Muk isn't affected by Umbreon.
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Orange Soda Online
From: University of Missouri-Rolla | Registered: May 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted May 12, 2003 09:46 AM
Correct. A Poke-Power is a Pokemon power, but not vice-versa.
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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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Porygone3
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Member # 73689
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posted May 12, 2003 11:41 AM
Pokemon Powers are Poke-Powers. And Poke-Bodys are consedered Pokemon Powers if you read the rull book. Now, If Muk was on the Bench and Umberon was active... maybe its whoever was out first- I meen if Umbreon was out first then it would cancle muk, but if muk was there first it would cancle it out. But of course- if you evolved Muk and your promo Eevvee evolved then... @_@
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Erica total 24, thats right, 24.
Dunsprace total 41.
I've gotten 98 on that Machoke at work game. I beat Driving Corasola.
I almost beat the record in Hold Down hip hop. I got 2000 or so in Kinglers day. I got 7 in Rapadash's dash. Butterfree's Flower Power 4700. 123 In Jumping Dodoro. My all foil deck is finished.
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From: USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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Orange Soda
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Member # 19838
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posted May 12, 2003 11:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Porygone3:
Pokemon Powers are Poke-Powers.
All Poke-Powers are Pokemon Powers, but not all Pokemon Powers are Poke-Powers. Since Umbreon says "Poke-Powers", Pokemon Powers and Poke-Bodies are exempt.
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Orange Soda Online
From: University of Missouri-Rolla | Registered: May 2001
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Porygone3
Member
Member # 73689
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posted May 12, 2003 04:02 PM
awhile ago Pokemon Powers and Poke-Powers were called the same thing or Pichu and Muc would not effect them, also Poke-Bodys are consedered Poke-Powers and thus Pokemon Powers or Brocks Ninetails could use them: that is all.
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Erica total 24, thats right, 24.
Dunsprace total 41.
I've gotten 98 on that Machoke at work game. I beat Driving Corasola.
I almost beat the record in Hold Down hip hop. I got 2000 or so in Kinglers day. I got 7 in Rapadash's dash. Butterfree's Flower Power 4700. 123 In Jumping Dodoro. My all foil deck is finished.
"I've got floating engery."
"I've got counter productive Powers."
"One heart can make a diferance."
"Rock the world baby, rock the world."
"Roll out!!"
From: USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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Orange Soda
Member
Member # 19838
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posted May 12, 2003 04:15 PM
A while ago, "Poke-Power" was merely an abbreviation people used for "Pokemon Power". It is not so anymore, as "Poke-Power" is now a separate (though similar) gameplay element from "Pokemon Power".
From the rule book (Aquapolis version):
quote:
Expanded Pokemon Powers: Some Pokemon have special "Pokemon Powers". "Pokemon Powers" are now divided into two categories: Poke-Powers and Poke-Bodies.
(stuff after that was insignificant)
"Pokemon Power" is the catch-all term. A Poke-Power is a Pokemon Power, and a Poke-Body is a Pokemon Power. A Poke-Body is not a Poke-Power.
Muk says it stops "Pokemon Powers", so it stops anything labelled a Pokemon Power, Poke-Power, or Poke-Body. Umbreon says it stops Poke-Powers, so it only stops that which is labelled a Poke-Power.
[ May 12, 2003, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Orange Soda ]
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Orange Soda Online
From: University of Missouri-Rolla | Registered: May 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted May 12, 2003 04:24 PM
FTC:
quote:
Q. So just to clarify, Muk's "Toxic Gas" will prevent Poke-Body powers, right?
A. Yes. (Sep 5, 2002 WotC Chat, Q177)
Poke-bodies are Pokemon Powers, so are Poke-Powers. Pokemon powers are not Poke-Powers or Poke-bodies. At least that's what I remember.
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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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CmonIWanaPLaYa
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Member # 101319
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posted May 13, 2003 09:03 AM
I agree that Muk shuts it all down if it is there.. however.. what if Umbroen comes into play after Muk is sitting on the bench.. would that be considered a come into play effect and Umby then shuts off Muk.. or no??? I am so cornfused!! ![[Confused]](../tcg/confused.gif)
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Orange Soda
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Member # 19838
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posted May 13, 2003 09:24 AM
Umbreon doesn't say anything about coming into play, so I don't think it will matter.
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Orange Soda Online
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Porygone3
Member
Member # 73689
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posted May 13, 2003 10:54 AM
if a poke-body is no longer a poke-power then Brock's Ninetails can use it. Wait a second!! Poke-Bodys are consedered Pokemon Powers. Since Pokemon Powers are now known as Poke-Powers/ Poke-Bodys: However: Some cards are now seperating the diferances, so heres the back lash of THAT!! Pichu only Zaapps Pokemon that have Pokemon Powers. And will not and can not effect Poke-Bodys since Pokemon Powers are Sub-typed now; wait a second... No Pokemon Powers are a global effect now meening that all pokemon from the older sets have BOTH Pokemon Powers and Poke-Powers and Poke-Bodys or wait no...
Lets try this again.
Pokemon Power on a card is consedered "Poke-Power" for game effect- however when something on a card effects Pokemon Powers it effects both sub types of Pokemon Powers:
(Poke-Powers)
(Poke-Bodys)
Anything that shuts of Poke-Powers (Muc, Goop Gas, Magbi) Shut off All Sub-Types. Umberon Picks a sub type and only shuts that Off. Since Muc is consedered to have a Poke-Power (Or should that be consedered a Poke-Body? Good question.. eh lets leave it alone) So if Umberon was out first, then when Muc was in play on the Bench his/her/its power would not be active. However if it moves active, then It turns on, turning the other off (Since its power turns off all sub-types)
That is all.
Want to do it again?
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Erica total 24, thats right, 24.
Dunsprace total 41.
I've gotten 98 on that Machoke at work game. I beat Driving Corasola.
I almost beat the record in Hold Down hip hop. I got 2000 or so in Kinglers day. I got 7 in Rapadash's dash. Butterfree's Flower Power 4700. 123 In Jumping Dodoro. My all foil deck is finished.
"I've got floating engery."
"I've got counter productive Powers."
"One heart can make a diferance."
"Rock the world baby, rock the world."
"Roll out!!"
From: USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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Spectreon
Member # 60305
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posted May 13, 2003 11:48 AM
I have been under this impression...
Poke-bodies/Powers are sub-divisions of Pokemon Powers. So any card that says Pokemon Powers would effect Pokemon Powers, Poke-Powers, and Poke-Bodies. If a card spefically says Poke-powers or Poke-Bodies, then it only effects that sub group. Meaning that something shutting down Poke-Powers cannot shut down Pokemon Powers.
So if this is correct, Muk would always shut of Umbreon no matter what. Wouldnt matter who is active, or who came into play first. If there has been a ruling stating that all old Pokemon Powers count as Poke-Powers now, then I have not heard this, and where and when was this decided?
[ May 13, 2003, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: Spectreon ]
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qmech99
Member
Member # 123578
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posted May 13, 2003 12:30 PM
What the heck, I'll have a go.
First of all, it is my opinion that Muk would shut off everything. Now for the why.
As has been mentioned, Poke-Powers and Poke-Bodies are both Pokemon Powers. Muk ignores the effects of all Pokemon Powers except for other Toxic Gases. Dark Gaze is not called Toxic Gas, so would be ignored. That's proof enough for me.
If you want more, then here goes. Poke-Powers have to be activated by the player. Poke-Bodies are permanent effects. Toxic Gas does not have to be activated (it is 'always on'). You may not choose to let other Pokemon use Pokemon Powers. If the card was being released today it would be classed as a Poke-Body, as it is always on. Dark Gaze only affects Poke-Powers, so the 'Poke-Body' Toxic Gas Would still work.
I am aware that the second example is slightly flawed, as the old Pokemon Powers have not been reclassified as Poke-Powers or Poke-Bodies, but so is the argument above that relies on Pokemon Powers all being treated as Poke-Powers.
Most of this is probably reiteration but if nothing else it's cleared my mind...
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From: UK - Derbyshire | Registered: Jan 2003
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TheCrossFormatKid
Member # 87741
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posted May 13, 2003 01:54 PM
Ok, so muk would turn off umby's body, but what if your opponant had a neo genesis slowking on the bench? Would his pokemon power be shut off?
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ShadowCard
Member # 2104
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posted May 13, 2003 06:47 PM
this is so ultimately confusing. Will Dark Gaze shut off Toxic Gas? or is it the other way around? The way i understood it was:
if it says it shuts off "pokemon powers", it shuts off pokemon powers, poke-powers, and poke-bodies.
if it says it shuts off "poke-powers", it shuts off pokemon powers, poke-powers, and poke-bodies.
if it says it shuts off "poke-bodies", it shuts off poke-bodies.
Am i correct in assuming the reason for making poke-powers and poke-bodies was to make it easier to understand? if that's true, it definitely backfired.
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Raikou1234
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Member # 3003
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posted May 13, 2003 06:53 PM
I would say the first one in play has the start...First Umby's power shuts off all bench powers...then muk goes in play...but Muk's power is already off...But
what if Muk gets sent up, and then retreated...Toxic Gas goes on....then Umby's power is off..then it retreats...Oh, man, who cares, it'll rarely happen o_O ![[Big Grin]](../tcg/biggrin.gif)
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From: Somewhere | Registered: Mar 2001
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Porygone3
Member
Member # 73689
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posted May 14, 2003 12:35 AM
two words: Reverse Rullings.
Also used with Rainbow/Dark Engery, because they messed up on the wording a few times.
So anything with a Pokemon Power is superor to that with a Poke-Power and there for anything that says Poke-Power can't touch Pokemon powers.
You know how desruptive that is to the game mechanice? Do I have to break it down and find a endless loop hole again in the rullings.
You want me to bring back my floating engery...
This is along the same lines.
Make it easy: If Umberon is out before Muk- and he is brought out; his power is off.
If he goes Actvie, then his power goes on, and the other goes off. As we know "Global" effects (IE SPUTTER) Stay on the Actvie Pokemon, so if Muk went to the bench, then his power would eather turn off since his effect of going to the bench could again triger the other power being on. Or we retro-actvie the Sputter rulling and other simular rullings.
Its really that easy: open a box of pandara; expect madness.
Just label all Pokemon Powers Poke-Powers for game play. Its that easy.
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Erica total 24, thats right, 24.
Dunsprace total 41.
I've gotten 98 on that Machoke at work game. I beat Driving Corasola.
I almost beat the record in Hold Down hip hop. I got 2000 or so in Kinglers day. I got 7 in Rapadash's dash. Butterfree's Flower Power 4700. 123 In Jumping Dodoro. My all foil deck is finished.
"I've got floating engery."
"I've got counter productive Powers."
"One heart can make a diferance."
"Rock the world baby, rock the world."
"Roll out!!"
From: USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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Orange Soda
Member
Member # 19838
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posted May 14, 2003 09:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Porygone3:
So anything with a Pokemon Power is superor to that with a Poke-Power and there for anything that says Poke-Power can't touch Pokemon powers.
You know how desruptive that is to the game mechanice? Do I have to break it down and find a endless loop hole again in the rullings.
Please elaborate.
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I'm crushed. The fans are crushed. Orange Soda is Crushed Orange Soda!~Gengar
Orange Soda Online
From: University of Missouri-Rolla | Registered: May 2001
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qmech99
Member
Member # 123578
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posted May 14, 2003 11:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Porygone3:
Just label all Pokemon Powers Poke-Powers for game play. Its that easy.
NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!
*Bangs head against wall HARD*
Poke-Powers and Poke-bodies are two different types of Pokemon Power. They make the game easier to understand by dividing Powers into those that are always on and those that have to be activated by the player. You cannot indiscriminately label all Powers Poke-Powers. I won't even start going on about how that would mean that Poke-Bodies are Poke-Powers.
Basically, a Poke-Power is not a short form of a Pokemon Power - it is a completely different thing.
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From: UK - Derbyshire | Registered: Jan 2003
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Prime
Member
Member # 102940
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posted May 14, 2003 12:19 PM
Umbreon will not even affect Muk because Muk's power is a pokemon power, not a poke-body or a poke-power.
Poke-powers and Poke-bodies are sub division of pokemon powers
...............Poke-Power
Pokemon Powers<
...............Poke-Body
So a Poke-body would be classified as a pokemon power but a pokemon power would not be classified as a poke-power or poke-body.
Umbreon shuts off all poke-powers. So it would only affect poke-powers, not poke-bodies, or pokemon powers.
So let me say this again, Umbreon would not affect Muk AT ALL, UNDER ALL CIRCUMSTANCES!
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