|
Author
|
Topic: Encargo or Entails? Which one should get out of the kitchen?
|
bombasticlovegirl
Member # 55731
|
posted October 12, 2002 12:12 PM
The old saying goes if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. But two Pokemon seem to be making quite a name for themselves as the "hottest" cards to be paired with the infamous Holo Entei from Neo Revelation. The Entei/Magcargo a.k.a "Encargo" reigned all over Pokemon tourneys and World Champion Dylan Austin ravaged over us at GenCon several times with his beautifully made deck that revelled in flawless Howls and powered up Pokemon by turn 2 or 3.
With the release of the Legendary Collection that brought back some of the older cards back into the play scene including the former champion of fire, Ninetales. Recently, "Entails" decks began to pop up using Howling Entei and the Ninetales to do what Encargo used to do for players. This new format has yet to see the massive play that Encargo saw but yet a "heated debate rages on...which card is better?
Let's rate our fighters... ![[Eek!]](../tcg/eek.gif)
Ninetales-80 HP, one retreat cost, and 80 damage with Fire Blast for the cost of one fire energy. Plus it has a double colorless attack called Lure that lets you switch your opponent's Pokemon however you choose.
Magcargo-80 HP, three retreat cost, Lava Flow does 40 for three fire plus an extra 20 for each other fire you discard (meaning you'd need to lose 2 fire for 80 while Ninetales loses one fire). This also has a Pokemon Power called Magma Pool that lets you take a fire energy from Magcargo and attack it to the new Active should the two be switched.
I personally prefer Ninetales to Magcargo because I don't do things like everybody else and I'd rather burn one energy on 80 and still be able to do something next turn versus losing everything on a Lava Flow and having nothing to do next turn. And I have great success with "Entails" considering I could never build a fire deck to save my life in the past.
Well to each his own, but please feel free to send some comments and input on this post, the higher number of visits tickles me ![[Smile]](../tcg/smile.gif) Keep it positive though okay, friendly competition... See ya round! BLG ![[Devilish]](../tcg/graemlins/diablo.gif)
--------------------
Archetypes suck and will be destroyed, those of you not bright enough to make your own decks don't deserve your victories and aren't worthy of my admiration or respect...anyone else of course with neurons to build their own deck can be my friend and partner in crime. Hahaha :)
From: South Milwaukee, Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lord_Ninetales
Member # 386
|
posted October 12, 2002 04:06 PM
I prefer Magcargo - you can KO Babies without a discard, and you can one-hit KO almost anything, if you want. It may be more costly, but that buys you versatility.
--------------------
"Setting up a league in Scotland is like ice-skating uphill"
Lord_Ninetales - uphill ice-skating champion 2003!
From: Glasgow, Scotland | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
swanton_1717
Member
Member # 107024
|
posted October 12, 2002 04:17 PM
They are both very very good! But Ninetails+Strength Charm can KO most of the archetypes like Kingdra, Crobat, Dark Gengar, Dark Blastoise, Ampharos etc.
--------------------
Check out the band Unfinished Thought at www.unfinishedthought.com
"I should have known it was all a lie."
"I've been sleeping a 1000 years it seems. Got to open my eyes to everything." -Evanescence
Contact:
AIM- CMoll1717
Email- [email protected]
From: St. Louis MO | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
TR Shadow
Member
Member # 82873
|
posted October 12, 2002 04:22 PM
Even though Ninetails is much cuter, I have always preferred Macargo over Ninetails. Yes, I have tried both. It can do as much dammage as you'll need to knock out those big hitters like all the g8rs easier and, as Lord Ninetails said, can KO babies easly. It's Pokemon power can become a nusence and it dosn't work very well with double gust 'cause of it's high reatreat and Pokemon power. It's essential to do a lot of damage in Modified if you're useing fire to get rid of all the water which, BTW, is still the dominent type IMO. Instead of double gusts, youd need Warp Points so you'd get to choose who to bring out, mostly depending on who you want Magcargos energy to go to.
I guess Ninetails is just as good as Magcargo. It does have that lure allong withits big attack, which is an OK move. He can do 80, KOing Dark g8r and hevally wounding the Neo gen Riptide g8r,which isn't verry popular anymore anyway. Both could easly KO Jumpy (both of them), who I think is a rather good Dark G8r killer.
I really,now that I think about it think their both good in the Modified format. I still recomend Magcargo, but if you want, go ahead and use ninetails. They're both very useable ![[Wink]](../tcg/wink.gif) .
~TRS~
[ October 12, 2002, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: TR Shadow ]
--------------------
"Why go mad trying to keep sane when it's easier to go mad now and save your sanity for later?"-Life, The Universe, and Everything
"Good evening, I am the main dish of the day. May I intrest you in parts of my body?" -The Restraunt At the End Of The Universe
From: Kentucky | Registered: May 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Psychic_Prof
Member # 96987
|
posted October 12, 2002 04:23 PM
Both need to go sit down for what's coming next...
What is it? Oh...you think I'm going to tell you before it's finished...
--------------------
Using Archtypes in Pokemon would be like the Iron Chefs making a pepperoni pizza.
Creativity sets the elite from the amateur.
From: Redwood City Gym, Eureka, CA | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
NoPoke
Member # 42315
|
posted October 12, 2002 05:08 PM
ninetailes is Pichu proof.....
--------------------
========================================
'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS
some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL
-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------
'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.
From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Prime
Member
Member # 102940
|
posted October 12, 2002 05:39 PM
I use a magcargo deck and here are the reasons that magcargo is better than ninetails:
Better basic - Look at slugma, 30 for 2 fire, no dicard, no drawbacks, really good second turn hitter, then third turn kill. There isn't really a really good vulpix.
Wider damage- Maybe it has to discard to take out the big ones but for everyone else it can beat really easy and sometimes you don't have to discard unlike ninetails which you always have to. Also ninetails can only do 80 but magcargo can do 120.
Ninetails is a good card, I am impressed. But I am just stuck on the discard EVERY turn about him which i really hate. The point of both is to get them out and destroy, but if they are out fast, there won't be any big hitters like charizard out, or most of the time. And still magcargo can do alot more damage if needed. Its kind of trying to compare a dude with a sniper rifle, and a dude with a shot gun. The dude with the shot gun can do more damage and break the armor on the dude but he was to reload every turn. While the dude with the sniper rifle can shot him in his legs and still take them out without using up all the ammo that would be used to get thru the armor on the chest of the dude. yea.....
--------------------
"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
From: Asheville, North Carolina | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
swanton_1717
Member
Member # 107024
|
posted October 12, 2002 05:48 PM
Well if you have an Energy Stadium out you can get that one energy that you discarded back...
--------------------
Check out the band Unfinished Thought at www.unfinishedthought.com
"I should have known it was all a lie."
"I've been sleeping a 1000 years it seems. Got to open my eyes to everything." -Evanescence
Contact:
AIM- CMoll1717
Email- [email protected]
From: St. Louis MO | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Otaku
Member # 42359
|
posted October 13, 2002 11:52 AM
I haven't run an Encargo deck, but I have tried out an "Entails" deck, as BLG put it. I quickly realized taht Entei's Howl should bnot be the focus of any sane deck, unless you are only facing Fire weak Pokemon. After turning Those Enteis into useful TecH (re: 2-3, in the deck still, but not othering with Scoop-Ups or the like), it worked well. Slugma's are pretty bad. 50HP is fine, so is no discard. But the 2 retreat cost hurts it bad, as does Macargo's cost of 3 (which makes its power next to worthless). Will switch and company help? Yep. But most of the "company can also be used to hurt it as well. 'Tales has a retreat of one, as does Vulpix. This nice nice, since in addition to strentgh Charm, you can toss a Dark on it. Which brings me to another point: this is a card in a deck, so while Marcargo doesn't need to discard to hit babies, neither does Elekid, or Murkrow. 'sides, you only discard if you hit it. I am running low on time, so I will only mention one more thing in this Post: NG Wooper. Macargo hates this thing. First, it is THE most common anti-fire tech I have ever seen. Second, it can completely incapacitate Macargo by AMnesia-ing its only attack. With such a hefty retreat, by the time you KO all opposing Woopers, you'll either have burned two precious bench-manpulating cards or discarded a bunch of Energy.
--------------------
Imakuni Rules!
You can reach me at Otakutron on AIM and nihon_game_otaku on Yahoo Messenger.
From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
bombasticlovegirl
Member # 55731
|
posted October 13, 2002 12:00 PM
The replies here were amazing and very friendly with everybody respecting others opinions. I personally use Ninetales for the Energy Stadium combo, me discarding one energy for Fire Blast allows me to power up again next turn if I get heads. Bottom line, if you keep a fresh stack of energy in your hand and the stadium does it's job you can be powered up for Ninetales for the next five turns. It all works great with Double Gust, since everything has a one retreat cost.
The only reason I am anti-Cargo is that my luck just sucks, I mean it's horrible So it would be my luck that I would burn all the energy on a 100 damage Flow and have no options for the next turn allowing someone to wipe me out. Also I'm not a fan of huge retreat and I don't see the point of wasting valuable deck space on Balloon Berry's that only one Pokemon really needs to be using. So I guess the debate still rages on, but next time Psychic Prof, don't reply to posts if you're going to play the role of the Riddler...Jim Carrey tried it and you were just as awful at it... ![[Big Grin]](../tcg/biggrin.gif)
Everybody else though, keep the good comments coming and let the debate rage on! BLG
--------------------
Archetypes suck and will be destroyed, those of you not bright enough to make your own decks don't deserve your victories and aren't worthy of my admiration or respect...anyone else of course with neurons to build their own deck can be my friend and partner in crime. Hahaha :)
From: South Milwaukee, Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
St0ney
Member
Member # 109888
|
posted October 13, 2002 12:47 PM
imho Ninetails is a little bit better, since with strength charm, it can control it's damage, 90 to kingdra, 80 to dk gatr, etc.
but still they are pretty much even...
[ October 13, 2002, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: St0ney ]
From: European Union | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lord_Ninetales
Member # 386
|
posted October 13, 2002 01:05 PM
Here's a reason why Magcargo is better... it doesn't have everyone spelling its name incorrectly...
--------------------
"Setting up a league in Scotland is like ice-skating uphill"
Lord_Ninetales - uphill ice-skating champion 2003!
From: Glasgow, Scotland | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
NoPoke
Member # 42315
|
posted October 13, 2002 01:53 PM
What can I say but my fingers can't spel
MagKargo prolly just has the edge on Ninetales but it does depend upon how much Pichu there is in the local environment. A Focus Banded Pichu can be very very anoying.
--------------------
========================================
'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS
some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL
-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------
'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.
From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Otaku
Member # 42359
|
posted October 13, 2002 02:39 PM
Listen to me.
W
O
O
P
E
R
It really stinks for fire types with only one attack. That lone wooper can stall many turns unless you luck out an have plenty of switches and other pokes powered up. Ninetales is fine-it just lures out another poke. But Macargo gets to wait and wait...
--------------------
Imakuni Rules!
You can reach me at Otakutron on AIM and nihon_game_otaku on Yahoo Messenger.
From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak
Member # 37400
|
posted October 13, 2002 06:51 PM
Only problem -- Wooper requires a Water (or Rainbow) -- meaning you either need to take 10 damage with it, or be running water, in which case you're set against Magcargo anyway!
Magcargo beats out Ninetales because you don't have to discard to KO a baby (that just gets heads on Focus anyway, you know how it is) and although Ninetales can do 90 with Strength Charm, KOing the Kingdra, the attack is overcosted -- sure, Magcargo may need to burn 3 energy in order to KO the Kingdra but it only has to have 3 on it in the first place. Ninetales has to have 4 on it -- meaning not only must it get the perfect hand but it also NEEDS 2 Fire from the Howl in order to get the nukefest going. Magcargo can deal with sub-par howls -- If it should ever get 3 from a howl, one energy goes to the Slugma with 1 on it, the other 2 go to the second Slugma on the bench. Doesn't matter if you DG/KO one, the other dies at the next turn Cargo anyway.
--------------------
What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.
Viva la unoriginality!
From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
dark_umbreon
Member
Member # 108573
|
posted October 14, 2002 06:39 AM
encargo works the best i won like 40 or more or less
lose 5 tie 2 ![[Bounce]](../tcg/graemlins/jump.gif)
--------------------
Vhat ~_^
"I don't fight punnie little girls like you."-Cheng Wufie
"More testicles mean more iron!"-LunchLady Doris
"Me so hungy!"-Homer
"Once agian I'll be the god of death. But right know I need alittle sleep!!!"-Duo Maxwell
I lost my DCI card...in my house ....i had such a good record.>_<
From: 123FakeSt. | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Otaku
Member # 42359
|
posted October 14, 2002 08:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Otaku:
Listen to me.
W
O
O
P
E
R
It really stinks for fire types with only one attack. That lone wooper can stall many turns unless you luck out an have plenty of switches and other pokes powered up. Ninetales is fine-it just lures out another poke. But Macargo gets to wait and wait...
Apparently you are still not listening to me.
I think we should focus on something important here: "Encargo" is not that great a deck to begin with. Either you have to play with ridiculously high energy counts or you nuke most of your deck with Enteis. If you don't get a good howl, you tend to lose quite fast.
Now, lets look at how they both do against some of my area's local decks. Out of the three decks I play, it'd be a prolem for my Muk-Raker (since the "Raker" is Promo Scizor), get owned by my Energy Crisis Deck (Dark Vaporeon either hits you for 40 and you los an energy or Bites for 60 before the Darkness Bonus), while I am betting that my Mindgames deck would come out about even (Slowking, NR Sneasel, Murkrow, and Tyrouges vs a slug that can nuke 3/4 of them with one discard). Now, Ninetales has a better shot versus all of my decks. Why? Versus Muk-Raker, everyting cn be ohko'd with a single discard. Versus Energy Crisis, It can ohko anything for a single discard ('Cargo needs one for Vaporeon or two if Rocket's Hideout is in play. Did I mention the Woopers yet?). Versus my Mindgames deck, Ninetales can nuke everyting for one energy a pop, while Macargo needs none for Tyrogue, one for Murkrow and Sneasel, and two for Slowking (who can actually attack in this deck, and does frighteningly well). Now, my decks are fairly representative of my area. Many players either have a Water deck, an off-beat deck, or a Slowking based deck.
--------------------
Imakuni Rules!
You can reach me at Otakutron on AIM and nihon_game_otaku on Yahoo Messenger.
From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
DarkcrobatsR4me
Member
Member # 71131
|
posted October 15, 2002 01:31 PM
I think Ninetales is better than Magcargo cuz first of all, 'Tales needs only one to retreat and 'Cargo needs 3. Tales could possibly hit every turn with energy stadium while Cargo prolly has to recharge after knockout against those 90hp pokes. BTW, I played a Tales deck and even tho it lost to Gatr(riptide), Old modified, It withstanded all those hits and it beat a d.blastie deck 4th turn.
--------------------
10th place at the 11-14 division in Toronto modified gym challenge 2002.
From: Buffalo,NY | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Meganium45
Member # 99835
|
posted October 16, 2002 10:16 AM
Anyone worried about Wooper, or any of the other water pokes should consider playing Chikorita or Hoppip in their fire decks, really protects against fire.
NEWSFLASH: ENTEI IS NOT THE WAY!!!
There are too many other ways to get Magcargo (who only needs 3 energies powered up by turn 3, you just need to protect him until then)
One of my favorite new decks is a Venusaur (e)/Magcargo variant, with Chikorita teck. Imagine being able to place 2 energy on Magcargo every turn.
Using Entei limits the focus of your deck (unless you like discarding fun things like focus bands and Magcargos)
using the new e-venusaur gives your deck more flexibility which is needed in the new game, plus an awesome power. Has anyone fully realized the power of the e-Ivysaur yet??? WOW! 80 HP and 2 superior attacks, always with the threat of Venusaur coming!
Aside from that, I would like to see someone argue Arcanine vs Magcargo and Ninetails. I am still not sold on the power of THAT poke.
thanks
Meganium 45
--------------------
"To Make a Difference, you have to be Different"
Winner and parent of 6 year old winner (Little Duck) of Colinsville SBZ!
Other son was the 9 year old winner May SBZ at Dragon King, the best place to play Pokemon in the Midwest!
NOW 3 TROPHIES!!!
THE MASTER PROFESSOR IN ST. LOUIS and TO too! Yipee!
Gotta love St. Louis 8th, 9th and 10th and the Origins Professor Championship! (I was 9th :( )
Too bad we never have room for our bench - - lol.
From: St. Louis, Missouri | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jeremy Badeaux
Member # 58602
|
posted October 17, 2002 11:37 AM
I'm thinking Ninetales.
Slowking is getting rather popular in neo modified, wouldn't you like to have something that can drag it up and make it face the music?
I used a Entei/Ninetales for a while(even in unlimited battles), it 0wned R.Zappy and anything else either format could throw at it.
Magcargo would be better if it didn't have a lame-duck power that just makes it pichu bait.
--------------------
The Dark Gengar cometh
ÖÖÖ
From: Salem OR | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Martin Moreno
Member
Member # 107070
|
posted October 19, 2002 01:00 PM
Entei/Magcargo (or cleverly named Intense Fire) is a better choice than Ninetails hands down.
The problem with Ninetails/Entei is that getting atleast 2 fire energy out of a howl is crucial. Assuming your first turn attachment was to the Vulpix.
The Magcargo however, allows you to get a below average howl (only 1) and still be able to Lava flow by the second turn.
All Intense Fire decks should run 3 Howl Entei, 1 Non holo for the anti double gust. Magcargo's Power can actually be helpfull in the right situations. I've often found myself in scenerios where I have the holo entei on bench with 1 energy (for retreating mind you) and my active Magcargo fully Powered. It kinda puts your opponent in a tough spot because if they double gust it, it gets 1 of Magcargo's Energy cards transfered to it allowing you to attach another, and deal 60 to whatever their active is.
Another thing people talk about is Pichu. Jesus, a smart player will not have a problem with Pichu. If you are running the deck properly, a KO on a magcargo from Pichu is uncalled for. currently, my Magcargo runs 2 Healing fields, and Gold Berry.
My WCSC report proved Pichu isn't a problem for this deck. ;/
Right now, this deck is one of the top decks in Modified right now. Copycat makes it intensely playable.
--------------------
-The Chosen One Martin
"Martin, you've been mentally outta here for a long time." -PokePop
From: Dallas Texas | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Martin Moreno
Member
Member # 107070
|
posted October 19, 2002 01:02 PM
Oh, and may I add, Magcargo is ludicrously great against Babies. You don't even have to discard for a KO.
And in reply to the Topic Posters first Post, You dont "lose all your energy in 1 attack and not get to attack next turn", you have to play smart.
[ October 19, 2002, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: Martin Moreno ]
--------------------
-The Chosen One Martin
"Martin, you've been mentally outta here for a long time." -PokePop
From: Dallas Texas | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
bombasticlovegirl
Member # 55731
|
posted October 20, 2002 03:27 PM
Okay in response to the dilluted person who left the response that incinuated I didn't know what I was talking about, people who listen to Eminem and worship him shouldn't throw stones
Anyways, I never said the scenario with Magcargo being used and being fresh out of energy applied to everybody. I just said with my luck being as bad as it was and with me being the pessimist I am it was just something I didn't want to deal with. Also I think there is no place for non holo Entei in the deck, it only prevents for Double Gust for so long and in the words of Mr. Moreno "If your deck is good enough you should be prepared for it" Not the boy's exact words but close enough...also if you were playing cheap retreaters like Ninetales and Entei you wouldn't need to worry about it now would you?
"I'm sorry Martin, I didn't mean to hurt you. I never meant to make you cry but tonight I'm cleaning out my closet" BLG ![[Angel]](../tcg/graemlins/angel.gif)
--------------------
Archetypes suck and will be destroyed, those of you not bright enough to make your own decks don't deserve your victories and aren't worthy of my admiration or respect...anyone else of course with neurons to build their own deck can be my friend and partner in crime. Hahaha :)
From: South Milwaukee, Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
