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Author
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Topic: pokemon powers, pokebodies, and poke-powers
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NoPoke
Member # 42315
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posted May 16, 2003 08:24 AM
In the advance rulebook it is stated that what used to be called pokemon powers are now divided into two categories. (my emphasis)
Some of the expanations of how cards now work seem to imply that there are infact three categories.
1) poke-bodies
2) poke-powers
3) pokemon powers that are neither 1 nor 2
I believe that this is incorrect and will need to be addressed in order to retain a degree of consistancy as time moves on, eg The new wording on zzapp states that the attack does 20 damage to pokebodies and poke-powers. So are all the older cards now immune? This is inconsistant with the statement in the rulebook that pokemon powers have two subclasifications, and by implication that zzapp still hits all pokemon powers just like it used too.
I believe that we need to revist all the pokemon-powers and work out if they should be poke-bodies or poke-powers. Most are obvious but there are a few that aren't so clear.
flame suit on
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'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS
some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL
-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------
'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.
From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001
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DOMCGI
Member # 20344
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posted May 16, 2003 09:39 AM
1. Currently, even there are only 2 categories for “Pokemon Power”, we don’t know if there are more in the future. It is danguous to use the equation “Poke-Body” + “Poke-Power” = “Pokemon Power” as a general rule.
2. WOTC probably will not change the rule. Remember, WOTC have to consult TPC in the past for every major rule change. With less than 4 months left, I wonder if WOTC willing to spend the time to talk to TPC about this rule change. Even the current rule is not look good and not logical, the current rule is working and don't cause big problem.
3. No one know what format will be used when Nintendo take over the sanction tournment. It is vey likely that the Nintendo’s format will only include Card-E or later. In this case, Nintendo will not care about the old “Pokemon Power”.
Based on above, I will say that we will live with the existing rule (“Poke-Body” and “Poke-Power” could not touch “Pokemon Power”) until Nintendo take over Pokemon TCG and issue their own rule.
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An Old Pokemon Trading Card Game Player.
Pokemon Professor: Score of 40/50
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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NoPoke
Member # 42315
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posted May 16, 2003 10:12 AM
I'm not sure that Wotc are in that close discussion with TPC on rulings anymore.. ![[Frown]](../tcg/frown.gif) I suspect the rules team is now MTM and ... well ... MTM and maybe MTP's GBA+e-reader! :-D
Nintendo USA have stated that Wotc cards will be compatible with their cards. Maybe they will limit the tournament cards to card-e onwards: I wish that they would give us some clue as to what they (Nintendo) are doing. (and thats even before considering how my paranoid european view on the silence!)
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'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS
some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL
-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------
'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.
From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001
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RabidRaichu
Member # 36118
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posted May 16, 2003 10:17 AM
Definately a poser -- I thought I had the answer until I checked this week's chat log. There it was stated that Skyridge Umbreons' "Dark Gaze" cannot affect Muks' "Toxic Gas" because "Dark Gaze only works on Poke-Powers (did I get that right?), and "Toxic Gas" is a "Pokemon Power". However, in this case the attack "Zzap" includes both Poke-Powers and Poke-Bodies -- does this make it all inclusive? Someone needs to ask this next week, but I think we should look at the previous wording and the "intent" of the current wording (including both current subclasses of Pokemon Powers) and say "Yes, it affects Pokemon Powers also." until someone from WoTC gets a ruling out to the contrary.
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I want to believe!
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From: Modesto, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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ShadowCard
Member # 2104
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posted May 16, 2003 12:17 PM
quote:
No one know what format will be used when Nintendo take over the sanction tournment. It is vey likely that the Nintendo's format will only include Card-E or later. In this case, Nintendo will not care about the old "Pokemon Power".
This is irrelevant. The thing is that league play is open to all formats with the hopes a broken deck will not be played. So a ruling must be made. It's hidden in the official ruling for skyridge umbreon vs muk: http://boards.wizards.com/tcg/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=76;t=003884;p=2
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"And there came a hero who said: Hurt not the earth, nor the sea, nor the trees, nor the very fabric of time, but the hero would not prevail...nor would he surrender."
Registered: Feb 2001
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PokePop
Member # 8
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posted May 16, 2003 12:39 PM
It seems clear to me. When something (like the new ZZAP!) refers to both PokePowers and PokeBodies, Pokemon Powers are included.
If something refers only to PokePowers or refers only to PokeBodies, then Pokemon Powers are immune.
If something refers to Pokemon Powers, then PokePowers and PokeBodies are included.
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"This kind of makes you miss the compendium..." - Martin Moreno
The Compendium: http://pkcompendium.hypermart.net
Registered: Feb 2001
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GymLeaderPhil
Member # 455
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posted May 16, 2003 01:21 PM
master_trainer_mike presents the speaker with question #1598 from lizardotc:
If I have an active Skyridge Umbreon, does my opponent's benched Muk shut off Dark Gaze, or does Dark Gaze shut off Toxic Gas?
master_trainer_mike says, "Remember the older Pokemon that have Pokemon Powers are NOT brokedn down into Poke_BODYs or Poke-POWERs."
master_trainer_mike says, "So, the Umbreon only prevents Poke-POWERs. Muk's Pokemon Power is not affected."
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THIS is truly thinking outside of the box!
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From: Where ever the ladies take me | Registered: Feb 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted May 16, 2003 01:33 PM
I disagree, 'Pop. I think that simply stating Poke-powers and Poke-bodies means that just those are effected. Otherwise, why not just say Pokemon Powers since it would have the same effect with less text. Then again, that's logic, and we all know where that can get you in this game.
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AIM: yoshi1001
From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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NoPoke
Member # 42315
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posted May 16, 2003 02:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by yoshi1001:
I disagree, 'Pop. I think that simply stating Poke-powers and Poke-bodies means that just those are effected. Otherwise, why not just say Pokemon Powers since it would have the same effect with less text. Then again, that's logic, and we all know where that can get you in this game.
FWIW I think that breaking pokemon powers into two categories is a simplification of the game. I would be surprised if any future cards refer to pokemon-powers alone rather than naming the clasification effected. Zapp specifies both clasifications, and I believe that the games designers intend all pokemon-powers to be either poke-bodies or poke-powers. remember that the rulebook says that pokemon-powers are now broken into two groups, it does not say that there is a third group that older powers fit into.
Zapp shuts off both poke-bodies and poke-powers since when you add these too groups together you get the set of pokemon-powers I fail to see how zzzapp leaves pokemon-powers untouched.
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========================================
'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS
some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL
-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------
'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.
From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001
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PokePop
Member # 8
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posted May 16, 2003 08:18 PM
Also, the cards are worded by TPC in Japan.
It is clear that they intend the e-cards to not be used with the "older cards". Since that is the case, they don't see the need to refer to "Pokemon Powers" since that is "old". It would be nice if WotC had some more input into the wording, but we have to make the best of it.
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"This kind of makes you miss the compendium..." - Martin Moreno
The Compendium: http://pkcompendium.hypermart.net
Registered: Feb 2001
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NoPoke
Member # 42315
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posted May 17, 2003 01:21 PM
Like PokePop has said I think that Nintendo/TPC will exclude the Neo block from tournament play once they have their structure in place.
I don't know if Legendary Collection will also bite the dust. It probably will but just in case here are my thoughts on what the pokemon powers present in LC should be for compatibility with expedition onwards.
Poké-POWER
Alakazam Damage Swap
Charizard Energy burn
Dark dragonaire Evolutionary Light
Drowzee Long Distance hypnosis
Gengar Curse
Muk Toxic gas
Snorlax Thick Skinned
Tentacool Cowardice
Venusaur Energy Trans
Poké-BODIES
Dodrio retreat Aid
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The tricky ones.... probably also Poké-POWERs
Haunter Transparency
Kabuto Kabuto Armour
Machamp Strikes Back
Omanyte Clairvoyance
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How did I get to this list? Its a Poke-power if it is shut off by a special condition. Its a Poke-BODY if is is always on. Its a Poke-power if you have to activate it.
I also think that Muk's Toxic gas should only shut off poke-POWERs. This is consistant with the text referencing its own ability. I checked through the Aqua and Expedition Poke-BODIES to see what would be unaffected by Muk and with the possible exception of AQ Scizor restricting Muk to Poke-POWERs only seems reasonable.
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========================================
'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS
some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL
-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------
'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.
From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001
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Marcello-Milord
Member # 74276
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posted May 18, 2003 09:18 AM
Hmm I think Nintendo/TPC will lately print a reprint set like LCII. The only difference will be that these cards will be totally reworded, as they made in the Pokémon*Web expansion, whic was a massive reprint of old cards, with rewording. Take Dark Ivysaur & venusaur, for example. These cards were originally worded as "Special Ability" (= Pokémon Power in USA).
In the Web espansion, they have reworded it and Dark Ivysaur's Vine Pull was called a "Poké-BODY"). In fact, our Best promos are taken off from Pokémon*Web!
As they have done this in japan for format purposes, why they should leave this difficult situation here?
[ May 18, 2003, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: Marcello-Milord ]
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From: Milano - Italy | Registered: Apr 2002
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Porygone3
Member
Member # 73689
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posted May 19, 2003 10:24 AM
I smell anther loop hole.
Now, I have conflicting powers
yay!!
I havent found a way to make this evil, other then a lock down deck that screws new pokebodys/powers and has nothing BUT powers on your side.
Nice eh?
Since were at it I think Pokemon Powers cant be effected by Burn or Posion since the CARD doesnt say that...
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From: USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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qmech99
Member
Member # 123578
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posted May 19, 2003 01:25 PM
Powers and Special Conditions have been ruled on.
I see no providence anywhere for imaginary loopholes.
Porygone3 - Please stop being so childish. This is reaching the level of 3 year olds who say 'Why?' in answer to anything you say. Saying something over and over again doesn't make it true.
Anyway, for the clearest answer to this question, read yoshi1001's reply.
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From: UK - Derbyshire | Registered: Jan 2003
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Marcello-Milord
Member # 74276
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posted May 19, 2003 02:49 PM
I discovered an interesting thing...
On the japanese Pokémon Card Game website, there is a section of the "Play the game" section where Special Abilities (=Pokémon Powers) from old cards are listed.
In this document, all Abilities listed are Poké-POWERs for the game puroposes... And all Abilities not listed there are considered Poké-BODIES.
We'll see if - in the "floor rules revamping" by Nintendo will be included this list...
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**Marcello-Milord!**
* A proud Pokémon Professor
* Member of Team Europe
* Judge in many Wizards' Premier Events
* Gym Leader of PKMN League in Sassari (Italy)
* Nidoking #1 Trainer
* Proud Team Rocket member!
* AKA Milord/Tuxedo Mask
"Arrendetevi subito, oppure preparatevi a combattere!"
"Miao, proprio cosě!"
(Italian TR end of motto)
::ICQ: 106121537 ::
::AIM: MarcelloMilord ::
From: Milano - Italy | Registered: Apr 2002
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themcster
Member # 1207
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posted May 19, 2003 10:52 PM
i would say that charizard and snorlax's powers are poke bodies.
just my 2 cents.
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Creator of the metal tyranitar deck. 7th September 2002.
Creator of the TMP dust devils deck. 7th September 2002.
From: horsham, west sussex. england | Registered: Feb 2001
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