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Author
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Topic: My take on the "EX" pokémon
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The_Deuce
Member # 122649
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posted June 20, 2003 02:42 AM
I recently got my box of these new cards, and the new "EX" pokémon seem a bit strange to me, 2 prizes if you KO them, and they all seem to be just beefed up versions of BBPs of the past...
Magmar - Well, it's got Smokescreen from it's Fossil counterpart, and 40 damage and auto-burn for [RRC] is not bad. It's got 90 HP so it can take a couple hits, and a retreat of 2 so it's not impossible to escape. Useable? I think so...
Electabuzz - It's got the same old Thundershock, which is always nice. Then, Quick Attack which does 40 or 60 damage for [LLC] is about average. The same retreat cost of 2 is average. But the 90 HP and resistance to metal are both pretty nice. To me it seems useable but just barely.
Chansey - The big egg is back... With that same huge HP, but everything else seems a tad different. For [CC] she can remove 2 damage counters from everyone but herself, and then for [CCC] she's got Double-Edge again doing the same amount of damage, but only doing 60 to herself. What I don't like is that 60 damage is still a 2 turn self-KO, and that means 2 prizes for your opponent, plus she's got a retreat of 3, which means most people won't want to bother retreating her. I don't know about her useability, in 2v2 maybe you keep her as an active and use her first attack when you need it, but in regular play I don't like that 2 turn self-KO/big retreat, especially in a metagame that will probably be without Gold Berry... Hyper Potion might help some, but I still don't think that this card is real playable...
Scyther - This guy I'm assuming is supposed to be derived from it's Jungle counterpart, but unlike the other "EX" cards, it's very little like it. Agility doing 10 damage (and the normal effect) for [G] is nice, and Slash doing 50 for [GGC] is decent too. At 80 HP, it's the most vunerable of the 8 "EX" pokémon. But with a retreat of only 1, it's also the easiest to pull out of harm's way. Personally, I think this is one of the best, if not the best "EX" card, definitely playable.
Hitmonchan - Well, the 90 HP is good, and the retreat of 2 isn't too bad. What I dislike about this though is it's Steady Punch does 10+ damage, with the possibility of 20 with a good flip, that's "okay" at best. Sky Uppercut does 50 and does apply resistance for [FFC], and that's not bad, still I wouldn't use him, it's close, but not worth 2 prizes...
Lapras - The first thing I noticed is that 110 HP... wow... Problem is, that's by far is best feature... He's got the big retreat cost of 3, which keeps people from wanting to pull him out of the way. His Energy Ball attack is the exact same thing as his Fossil counterpart's Water Gun, which is sub-par anyway (Who wants to deal 30 damage for [WWW]? ![[Bored]](../tcg/graemlins/dozey.gif) ). Confuse Ray is a bit better, doing 30 and auto-confusion for [WWC], but seeing how they changed the confusion rules, confusion isn't too big of deal as long as the pokémon's retreat isn't too big. Again, I wouldn't use this guy...
Sneasel - Uh-Oh, lock the doors and hide in the cellar, Genesis Sneasel is back! Well... almost... The 20 extra HP is obviously good, but everything else they powered down. Double Scratch is the same as Fury Swipes, except you flip one less coin, and it costs 1 darkness instead of 1 colorless. He's got a weakness to fighting, a retreat of 1, and Beat up costs [DDC] instead of [DD]. Still, Beat Up is overpowered, and the card is still useable, but I don't see it dominating the format like it's Genesis cousin did.
Mewtwo - Promo Mewtwo is back to wreak havoc, and if Scyther's not the best "EX" card, then this guy is. His only undesireable aspect is his retreat of 3. He's still got the same Energy Absorption and Psyburn attacks. Psyburn still costs the same, but does an extra 20 damage. Also, the fact that they boosted his HP to a cool 100, doesn't hurt. I can see this card being used in a lot of decks.
Well, those are my thoughts on the "EX" pokémon, if anyone else has anything to say about these guys, comments would be appreciated.
[ June 20, 2003, 02:45 AM: Message edited by: The_Deuce ]
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From: :noitacoL | Registered: Jan 2003
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Carrington388
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Member # 139065
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posted June 20, 2003 07:21 AM
Retreat of 3 is nothing new to Mewtwo; Base Mewtwo had that very cost. And with re-released "Best promos", it is very well possible to build decks such as "13 Mewtwo" and "12 Sneasel" (4 normal, 4 EX, 4 Rocket, and (for Mewtwo) 1 Shining). In fact, I've built a 13 Mewtwo deck over in the Decks forum recently. I'll build a 12 Sneasel deck as well.
From: DataDyne | Registered: May 2003
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Taichi
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Member # 13564
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posted June 20, 2003 10:14 AM
What about kyogre ex and groudon ex? I don't think they're usable at all.
Magmar EX's second attack is like electabuzz EX's. Both need to flip for 20 more damage, except burn places 2 damage counter. So magmar's EX is better IMO.
Chansey EX is also good. If you have unnown N, it only does 30 to itself.
From: Toronto, Ont | Registered: Apr 2001
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Postdog2Gengar
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Member # 18365
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posted June 20, 2003 10:46 AM
Excuse me for changing the subject slightly, but what are these EX Pokemon and what expansion are they in?
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From: Pokemon Tower, Lavender Town | Registered: Apr 2001
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WizPog_BDS
Member # 113238
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posted June 20, 2003 11:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Postdog2Gengar:
Excuse me for changing the subject slightly, but what are these EX Pokemon and what expansion are they in?
The EX Pokemon can be found in the new Ruby & Sapphire set, which is the first set released by Pokemon USA/Nintendo. There are also two EX Pokemon in the form of Promos, one released in the current issue of Scrye, and both due to be released in the next issue of Nintendo Power (volume 170).
BDS
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From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2002
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Otaku
Member # 42359
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posted June 20, 2003 12:53 PM
My opinion on the cards after a cursory examination...
Deathwish. All are too easy to KO. Their HP is usually a scant 20 more than normal. If a Pokemon is worth two prizes, its attacks better be broken or is HP better be almost doubled. Now, there are two taht could be worth it: Chansey, as it can do a lot of damage for just 3 of any energy, and Mewtwo, because it took the best Mewtwo, and added 30HP, and pumped up its damage from its second attack. Now, both are risky due to their weakness, particularly Chansey. As for hurting itselt, just play ehaling fields and Gold Berry. With some skill an luck, you can probably KO three or 4 Pokemon with the Chansey.
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From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001
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Prime
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Member # 102940
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posted June 20, 2003 01:14 PM
My review:
Chansey EX:
120HP is good, but for an ex, I was looking for somewthat higher. They took off scrunch and put in healing egg. The attack cant even heal Chansey now. Tthat was one of the best reasons to play the old Chancey. If you didn't have the right energy on chancey yet, you could scrunch and maybe not take any damage. But now tthat is not true and you are a sitting duck until you get 3 energy on chancey. Boost maybe? That's a good idea. Anyways. This one cannot be affected by steel so tthat lowers it even more. If you want to play it, go ahead. It is splashable in every deck just takes awhile to power up and is a easy kill after doing 60 to itself. You could still power it up with Unown N and only do 30 to itself. That's your best chance. My Score: 6/10
Electabuzz EX:
90 HP for an electabuzz is awesome! First of its kind. It has a steel resistance which is also awesome and it has a powered up 2nd attack. Thundershock is the same attack. Awesome still because it is one of many attacks tthat can do an status affect and damage on turn one of the game. Quick Attack, they have added another electric to the cost. Ouch, tthat really slows down the quick Electabuzz tthat used to be played in haymakers. Tthat was why people played haymakers. Quick fast damage. Quick Attack does 40 damage and flip a coin, if heads, 20 more. Nice. It doesn't do self damage anymore. And has a constant of 40 for 3. Sometimes you can do 60 too, and for 3 energy. Nice. Fighting weakness. There are some good fighting out with skyridge but it will still take a lot for this tank to go down. 2 retreat is just like the old one. Not bad. Not bad. This card WILL be used. The only downside is tthat it has one more energy needed for its attack which now does 10 more damage and none to itself. My Score: 8/10
Hitmonchan EX:
90HP is good for a hitmonchan. First of its kind lol. For one fighting, you can do steady punch, which does 10 and flip a coin, if heads, 10 more. Not as good as the first attack on the BS hitmonchan but I can live. Barely. Its second attack for 2 fighting and a colorless, does 50 damage and the attack is not affect by resistance. Tthat is so cool! I mean if you don't have a weakness to fighting, most others have resistance. There are a heck of a lot of cards tthat do have resistance, and this will get by it. Take tthat, 50 for 3. Its nice but if it were 60, it would be awesome. Psychic weakness is common for a fighting pokemon and 2 retreat isn't bad. This card will see some play, but maybe not a lot of it. My score: 7/10
Lapras EX:
110 HP is good! For one water, it does 10 damage plus 10 more for each energy attached to lapras but not used to pay for this attack. But you can only add no more than 20 damage this way. If didn't say tthat, I would play the card. But its just like any water gun out there only it does 10 plus 10 more. Its an all right attack. all right. For 2 water and a colorless, you can do 30 and confuse the defending pokemon. 3 for 30 is not good at all. I mean, you are getting 10 for each energy and that is pretty lame. The confusion constant is nice and is the only reason the card will be played. It has 3 retreat which means it will be DG out a lot, and a weakness to electric but it wont die so fast with 110 hp. You can try you hardest to play this card but it wont be anything better than average. My score: 6/10
Magmar EX:
90Hp is good. For one fire, you can do 10 and if your opponent tries to attack next turn, they have to flip a coin, if tails, it does nothing. Very good attack. Like I said about the Electabuzz, this was the reason it was played a lot. 10 and a flip for an attack. You can stall with that until you have another fire and colorless attached. For 2 fire and a colorless, you can do 40 and a constant state of burnt. Tthat is nice. You are doing only 40 but your opponent is going to be burnt every turn without a flip. Nice! Water weakness is stupid but is on every fire pokemon. 2 retreat isn't bad. Magmar EX will see play, but wont be a big hitter like it was in the old days. My score: 8/10
Mewtwo EX:
100Hp is good! For one psychic, it can attach up to 2 energy cards from the discard pile to itself. Tthat means steel, and dark if have to. But guess wthat. Use juggler tthat turn with 2 psychic in hand, and it is broken. If you do get a psychic and anything else, you can use psyburn the very next turn. Psyburn for 2 psychic and a colorless does 60 damage. Awesome! A turn two 60 and a constant 60 without fear of ER and SER is a nice addition. Psychic weakness is average. Crappy though. 3 retreat is pretty bad, but Mewtwo wont be moving around. it is fast to build up and in 2 turns can start dealing 60 damage a turn. Nice. This card will be used a lot if not the most of any EX card. My score: 9/10
Scyther EX:
80HP is all right. That's only 10 more from the jungle one. For one grass, you can do 10 and flip a coin, if heads prevent all effects of an attack, including damage, done to scyther during your opponent's next turn. Its all right. Its not like smokescreen on magmar but good enough. Its a nice 1st turn move. For 2 grass and a colorless, you can do 50. Tthat is nice but could be better. The cool thing about Jungle scyther was tthat it could be splashable in every deck with a 3 colorless attack for 30. But they took tthat away. Fire weakness comes with most grass, and so does fighting resistance(see another reason for playing Hitmonchan EX) and one retreat cost is the best out of all the EX pokemon seen so far. This card will see some play but maybe not as much as you think. My score: 7/10
Sneasel EX:
80Hp is the same isn't it? Weakness to fighting is nice for hitmonchan lol. one retreat is all right but still abuseable. Resistance to psychic is awesome. For one dark, you flip 2 coins and do 10 for each heads. You can easily attack a rainbow to do tthat. For 2 dark and a colorless, you can do beatup. The big daddy has come home. You can easily put 2 rainbow and a psychic on sneasel and do beatup. Beatup has an average of 60 damage for 3. Tthat is awesome. It can do 0 but it can also do at most 150 damage with 3 dark energy on it. People will be playing it with Espeon from AQ because you can pick the energy off of Sneasel if it is about to die. But it is still nice to play without it. Not as fast but still broken as crap. This will be played most of any EX card just for its name and 2nd attack. My score: 9/10
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From: Asheville, North Carolina | Registered: Aug 2002
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KYDAD
Member # 30575
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posted June 25, 2003 07:55 AM
I really liked the looks of the Chansey ex.
I played an Alakazam damage swap deck way back in the early days, and revived it a few years ago as an Alakazam-Lt Vaporeon deck.
Alakazam - Chansey EX? Let's see, Chansey could do 80 each time for 3 colorless energy, Alakazam can spread the damage so Chansey can heal 100 any time that it is needed. Throw in a quartet of Pokecenters....This has the beginnings of a deck in it.
However "chances" are that Chansey EX and Alakazam will never be in Modified at the same time....
Prime...One thing that won't work is the Boost Energy on Chansey EX. Boost is for evolved pokes only.
[ June 25, 2003, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: KYDAD ]
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From: Crestwood, KY, US | Registered: Jul 2001
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Meganium45
Member # 99835
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posted June 25, 2003 02:04 PM
The most playable is Kyogre Ex, 120 HP with a BBP, 60 damage, plus 10 bench.
I have designed a raindance using this guy, pokemon center, and fisherman...Kind of nasty, not even sneasel can take this in a hit, and it is NOT clefable bait.
Kyogre Ex is the top of its class. As long as you are not against big heavy electric, but then again, that is what Tyrogue is for, n'est pas?
Thanks
Meganium45
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Trakix
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Member # 136413
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posted June 29, 2003 12:47 PM
At our local card shop pokemon just made a huge comeback and our first tournament is monday. I remade the aforementioned alakazam damage swap deck with chansey and mr. mime (I know, old school cards) to use in the tournament. I was looking at the ex version of chansey and decided that it is crap compared to the original one, at least for this deck. The main reason is it's huge retreat cost, the old one is one colorless to retreat and since you were only going to have it active as a hit taker there was no reason to have it attack, therefore the better attack is nothing. Also, the scruch attack is much better than healing egg in this situation. Just my two cents for the chansey ex.
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TrueGamer06
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Member # 138307
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posted June 29, 2003 01:46 PM
Im pretty impressed by these new EX pokemon.
Mewtwo EX has really has made a good comeback.
BUT I will rank these pokemon in the....
TRUEGAMER'S EX POKEMON RANKINGS
1)Sneasel EX
2)Mewtwo EX
3)Hitmonchan EX
4)Electabuzz EX
5)Scyther EX
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From: Hampton Roads, VA | Registered: Apr 2003
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Otaku
Member # 42359
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posted June 29, 2003 04:48 PM
A slighlty more detailed critique of the new cards... and why, for most, why they are pretty much Collection/Trade bait, at least imho. ![[Wink]](../tcg/wink.gif)
Before I start, let me explain the costing pattern I've seen for most of the Pokemon cards: a single Colorless Energy requiremet yields 10 damage or an effect. A colored energy requirement is like one and a half Cololress Energy requirements. Symbols I will use are C for Colorless, D for Dark, F for Fighting, R for Fire, G for Grass Energy, L for Lighting, M for Metal, P for Psychic, W for Water, and X for any colored energy when I am giving a generic example, like instead of typing out that an energy requirement of DD=CCC, FF=CCC, RR=CCC, etc. I'd just type XX=CCC (which just is me restating that any colored energy requirement is the same as one and a half non-colored energy requiremnts.
Magmar - If it wasn't an EX Pokemon, it'd be one of the best (non-combo i.e. Entei) Basic Fire Pokemon, and a solid contender for a new "Haymaker" deck. Of course, that's true for most of the other EXers as well. Its got one proven good attack (Smokesrcreen) that made it's Fossil cousin practically a staple for a non-Encargo Unlimited Fire deck. FFC for 40 damage is fair, so the AUto-burn is a nice bonus. Its retreat of two is not too bad... if you have to, retreating won't ruin it, particularly with its inexpensive first attack. In Unlimited, it could have been a fantastic upgrade to the old Fossil Magmar, and maybe even haver started a "Fire Haymaker" trend. A similar trend could have been feasible Fire Haymaker for Modified... but, it has a huge downfall that criples it (and nearly every other EX Pokemon: your opponent draws 2 prizes when they KO it. In Unlimited, you would would almost certainly be GoW'd and SER'ed, the wailied upon until it was KO'd-probably a mere turn long task. In Modified, it could build up, but most successful big evo's do at least 60 per turn, so if it got hit a little before setting up, its already a lost cause. You're probably better off using two of its non-EX counter part: you'll need two more energy cards, you won't do as much damage, and its easier to lose a single prize, but you get greater flexibility, a little more speed, Maggy is more a support Pokemon anyway, and of course, its harder for them to get 2 prizes this way. Maybe if Fire really needs a supporting Pokemon in "Eon" Modified...
Electabuzz - Thundershock is a fairly priced, effective attack. Quick Attack is a good attack... technically, as it is undercosted: you pay for 40 damage but get a chance at extra damage for free! Its stats are what you'd expect, but Metal Resistance is nice. Problem is, unless I your area is almost pure Metal and/or has next to no Fighting types, even as TecH, its just not good. Two Smash Punches, and it's KO'd, and your opponent grins and takes two prizes. What made Base 'Buzz king of his kind was that it had Tundershock as a first turn/stall attack, and then undercosted (or over powerd) Thunder Punch attack. Like Magmar, you're probably better off using two of its non-EX counter part: you'll need two more energy cards (One if the first one had a Recycle and gets KO'd ![[Razz]](../tcg/tongue.gif) ), you won't get the great resistance, and its easier to lose a single prize, but you get greater flexibility, a little more speed, and of course, its harder for them to get 2 prizes this way.
Chansey - Good ol' Chansey. Now, this one has enough tricks that I think its about as good as its Base Set Counter part (the best Chansey they've made) Double Edge is still over priced, but it is necessary to maintain balance (with 120 HP, it is most potent). Weakness to Fighting is still pretty bad, but at least in a 'rogue free Zone it will probably survive until thy get a stage 2. In Unlimited, where it will always face Tyrogue, it also will always have Recycle Energy, Double Colorless Energy, and Scoop up. It will also always have Unown N available to it: which, together, lets you do 80 for CCC with only 30 to yourself. Now, Pichu will give an Unown N fits, and is GoW bait, but this card will usually be played in one of three ways (the same way its counter part is usually played): generic stall, Wall/Stall, and Slowking/Chansey, which will protect is energies and Unown N from Gust of Wind. It's first attack is particularly nice for Wall/Stall decks: just spread your damage out amongst your bench. Lack of resistance is annoying, but can be supplemented from several good Dark Pokemon.
Scyther - This guy I'm assuming is supposed to be derived from it's Jungle counterpart, but unlike the other "EX" cards, it's very little like it. Agility doing 10 damage (and the normal effect) for [G] is nice, and Slash doing 50 for [GGC] is decent too. At 80 HP, it's the most vunerable of the 8 "EX" pokémon. But with a retreat of only 1, it's also the easiest to pull out of harm's way. Personally, I think this is one of the best, if not the best "EX" card, definitely playable.
Scyther: Okay, its attacks are fine... its retreat is fine... but it only has 20 more HP than its Modified counterparts who are just slightly less damaging, while it can't touch Rocket's Scyther in Unlimited for a "dedicated" Grass Basic, or and of course Jungle is better for Splashable Grass. Now, yes, it does more damage (without other flips or "special circumstances), but, well, its just a pumped up N4 Scyther, which is considered in my area among the worst. Compared to that one, its +20 HP and a +1 Prize for swaping a G with a C and 20 more damage... not quite enough.
Hitmonchan - Like Magmar, if it wasn't an "ex", it would be the best version. ;( Jab is better than Steady Punch, but Jab was underpriced (10 damage = C, so 20 should equal CC, and F only yields 1.5C). Its second attack is of course superior to Special Punch, and even better than Magnum Punch, since it doesn't apply Resistance, but does get to apply Weakness. So this one does equal 2 of its Base Set counter part... too bad that base Set Chan (or even Rocket's Hitmoncahn), just aren't used a lot in Unlimited. In Modified, it faces a similar problem: it equals two Hitmonchan... but Hitmonchan is only a "supporting" Pokemon here in Fighitng decks: something with decent HP and a cheap, efficient attack (Jab). So I'd have to scarifice two prizes when I normally would only sacrifice one...
Lapras - Honeslty, this has a decent chance, at least in my area, where Raindance (obviously, I am only talking Unlimted)is still a solid deck choice. Compared with the alternatives (LC Articuno). Energy Ball is kind of a waste: by the time it's powered up, you'll just use Confuse Ray anyway. It's be better if it was just a standard "Tackle" doing C for 10, or some other inexpensive alternative. Oh well. Confuse Ray is decent: Confusion damage is no longer blocked by Resistance or Metal, they'll have to use up their one retreat, burn a Trainer, or tough it out. People will probably understimate Confusion for a while: that flipless retreat makes it sound pointless, until they can't draw or ahve used up all their switches and realize they can't "dose do" to get around Confusion the way we used to get around Burn and anymore than 10 from Poison. I primarilly see this a a Metal counter.
Sneasel - ![[ROFL]](../tcg/graemlins/roflmao.gif) Trade bait. They took everything that made the old one "broken" and took it away: it has a Weakness, and a Retreat Costs, an overpriced (instead of under) first attack (remember, C=10 damage, and a "Colored" energy = 1.5C; contrary and yes, "good" evos will ahve a killer Power or get a cost break), and a more or less fairly priced second attack. Now, as I said, NG Sneasel was "broken"; it was better than it should ahve been for game balance purposes: its only bad stat was its HP. Everything else was "too" good: Perfect Retreat and Resistance (both none!), and under-costed attacks, which lead to extreme speed (pardon the pun). Sneasel ex has a solid HP for an unevolving basic, a good retreat, a balanced Weakness/Resistance, and a fair second attack, but a bad first attack and one other little thing: it costs you two prizes when it get's KO'd. It will be playable, but will need as much support as its Neo Genesis counter-part but with less of a return. Too me though, it'll be trade bait.
Mewtwo - An example of exactly how to make EX Pokemon: take a good, if not "Broken" basic. Now, pump up its HP and one attack. Its retreat is not as bad as it seems at first: this card is so easy to power-up with Energy absorbtion: get a "free" CPU Search in Unlimited or Juggler in Modified by discarding 2 Psychic Energy cards. It's second attack combos perfectly with its first attack, which is still discounted but would be too slow on its own. Weakness is acceptable: I don't know of any Psychic Resistant Psychics (but only have seen a handful of EX cards in detail). As such, it should be able to KO most other Psychics with ease. A higher HP, a Resistance, or lower retreat would probably break it.
There you go.
[ June 30, 2003, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Otaku ]
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