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Author
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Topic: Yet another ruling I find questionable...
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Otaku
Member # 42359
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posted July 30, 2003 02:31 PM
*Sighs*
I know that this is yet another futile effort, but I must try. Again, it invovles the Legendery Dogs. This time, its the ruling that Legendery Body from the Non-Holo versions of the Dogs partially blocks Double Gusts efect should it be your active. I am confused as to why. Here's is what the text for the cards in question:
quote:
Legendary Body
As long as [this Pokemon] is your Active Pokemon, [this Pokemon] and Energy cards attached to it aren't affected by effects from Trainer cards other than Stadium cards. As long as this Power is active, discard any Trainer cards attached to [this Pokemon]. (This power works even if [this Pokemon] is Asleep, Confused, or Paralyzed.)
Here's the text from Double Gust:
quote:
If you have any Benched Pokemon, your opponent chooses 1 of them and switches it with your Active Pokemon. Then, if your opponent has any Benched Pokemon, choose 1 of them and switch it with his or her Active Pokemon.
I did replace the Pokemon name with "[this Pokemon]" as the only difference between the text on each Dog is it's name. Now, I understand that no Trainer can affect an active Dog or its Energy. The problem is that I do not understand how Double Gust affects it. With all other Trainers, if something is chosen by a Trainer's effect, then that is what the Trainer targets. With Double Gust, it targets one Benched Pokemon of the opposing player, making it active, while the person playing it has one of their benched Pokemon selected. Now, here is where one could say it target's Suicune. It say's to "switch" it with the active. The reason the active is benched is because another Pokemon has been promoted (made active), and you can't have two Actives, so the new active replaces the old. Think of it like the old penny riddle:
You have three pennies in a row, touching each other (so "ooo"). You may touch and move the first one (ooo), touch but not move the second (ooo), and move but not touch the third (ooo). Now, you need to move the third one (that you can't touch). So, if you have never done this, go do it now, it's oddly fun. back, okay, so the reason I brought this up is it's kind of like like our situation. See, the solution is to hold down the middle penny (the one you can touch), then move the one you can move and touch back a bit, and ram it into the one you are holding down. This makes the middle one conduct the kinetic energy from the first penny (that you are moving) into the third (that you can move but not touch). Well, in this case, its a simplified version of that brain teaser. DOuble Gusting the Bench up is like being allowed to slam the penny you can't touch (in the above example) directly. It's technically the Pokemon's promotion that is making you bench your active.
The other people I have discussed this with are also unsure, so please, can someone clarify who knows?
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From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001
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Prime
Member
Member # 102940
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posted July 30, 2003 02:39 PM
Okay, that makes perfect sense to me. Now that I read the dog's power it doesn't seem that double gust affects it. It doesn't say to do anything to the dogs so that it isn't "affecting" them. Really now that I think about it, it does say switch it with the active, so you do have to mess with the active. So that might be where it was affecting it.
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From: Asheville, North Carolina | Registered: Aug 2002
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The Dark Llama
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Member # 75434
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posted July 30, 2003 02:42 PM
I was unsure of this as well, until it was reccomended in my Scizor deck, this is how I believe it works.
Suicune(and the other dogs)'s Power protects itself and its Energy. This means, it can't be affected by ANY non-Stadium Trainers unless Special Conditioned. A good thing about this is, putting them as Active Pokes and building up your bench will prevent your opponent (or yourself) from Dbl Gusting up someone you dont want Active (yet you still get the effect on the opponent's bench) The bad part is, you cannot use Potion, Switch, Gold Berry, etc on him or to get him, since he isn't affected.
example - I want to retreat my Furret, but have no energy to retreat with, I cannot play switch to directly bring out Suicune, as he isn't affected, so to get around it, I use Switch on a Baby, free retreat and bring up Suicune.
So, yes, he is immune to things like that.
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From: San Diego | Registered: Apr 2002
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NoPoke
Member # 42315
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posted July 30, 2003 04:11 PM
I do understand that you are arguing that it is the benched pokémon alone that is displacing the active NH dog rather than an effect from the trainer card. Though there is some merit in this view, both switch and gust have an implied target of the active also. At least this is the common understanding of how switch and gust work: take two pokémon and swap them. It was never necessary to make the implied targeting of the active explicit before, though with the new Nintendo format of 2-on-2 a specific choice will have to be made.
[aside: FWIW in your penny example the middle coin that you are holding down with your finger must move inorder to displace the coin that you are not allowed to touch. A compression wave is propagated through the coins' atomic structure displacing the atoms from their nominal position. This shock wave then pushes the last penny. The only scenario where the atoms of the middle penny don't move is where no no impulse is transmitted to the third penny. ]
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From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001
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Otaku
Member # 42359
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posted July 30, 2003 04:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by NoPoke:
[aside: FWIW in your penny example the middle coin that you are holding down with your finger must move inorder to displace the coin that you are not allowed to touch. A compression wave is propagated through the coins' atomic structure displacing the atoms from their nominal position. This shock wave then pushes the last penny. The only scenario where the atoms of the middle penny don't move is where no no impulse is transmitted to the third penny. ]
Thank you Mr. Wizard. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) I debated adding the clause that technically the middle penny must be moving. The earth is still spinning too, after all, the the penny isn;t stationery. Oh, and so now Trainer can affect a Legendery body dog at all, unless you can prove that no light has bounced of the Trainer to hit a Dog's card, thus "affecting it". This is not a viscious attack, but rather pointing out that you are over-analyzing my example. That being said, the earlier paragraph has more merit,but I still am not convinced. As usual, we have both card text and intent. As someone mentioned on my other thread, "see how it works in Japan". Does anyone know?
[ July 30, 2003, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: Otaku ]
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From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001
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WizPog_BJJ
Member # 113374
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posted July 30, 2003 07:24 PM
Double Gust targets a Benched Pokémon. But it effects your Active as it switches your Active to the Bench. Therefor Double Gust does not work against a Legendary Body Pokémon. Reference promo Mew ("Lilypad").
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From: Warwick RI USA | Registered: Nov 2002
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