Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

FlyDon: A Sand Storm Production

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I wonder how this deck does vs. Abomasnow?

Plus I honestly don't think Hippo is Flygon's best combo. There is little to no synergy between them. Your better of using some other more useful sidekicks like Blissey (PL), Manectric(PL), Gardevoir (SW), Alakazam(MT). With Blissey you have a combo similar to that of Queendom from a few years ago.
 
Actually, I name most of the decks in the format as "play themselves decks." You basically told me everything I already knew about how to play the matchups, and I didn't need to sit down and waste 40 hours doing it. Plays with this deck, and the majority of the decks in this format, are so obvious it suprises me how anyone misses them, and they miss them a lot. This isn't any different than anything else I've seen all format. Just another toolbox deck that has incredibly obvious strategies, otherwise a rookie like you (you joined last august, according to your profile) wouldn't have come up with all of them already.

I haven't honstly seen a deck that took real skill to play since absol/eeveelutions, and this is no absol. Don't tell me about skill.

Please refer to the PM regarding to how much of a loser I find you to be. Your worthlessness does not need to clutter my thread with people that have intellectual comments and critiques.

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You really going to cite Regigias as a 90-10 matchup? Really? They one hit your main attacker, are capable of continuous power lock, are capable of out-speeding you are you list it as 90-10?

I call shenanigans.

First of all, a 90-10 matchup does not exist in this metagame. Just about any deck is capable of a bad start/donk and techs can easily account for 5-10% in any given matchup. Matchups should realisitcally be 25-75/30-70 at their lowest.


Secondly. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE MEANS NOTHING, especially when you supplement everything that didn't go your way with incorrect Theoreymon.

However, since this is mindless bashing, ill give my input on each of your "Matchups" as well as one you forgot.


Dialga G + Variants: Deafen is difficult in this matchup, and you must choose how to set-up carefully. Get a Claydol out Asap and work on setting up a benched Hippowdon. Make sure if you bring it active that you can kill their Dialga G Lv.X in the same turn, because Hippowdon Lv.X has a hefty retreat cost without rainbow float. Watch for Power spray on Sand reset, try to bait them into an unfavorable position beforehand. A good Dialga G player will Opt not to use uneeded stadiums here, so you probably won't get much use out of Flygon's first attack. Still, once you get a Flygon Lv.X powered up you should be able to pull it out, by sniping any level X's they have, still, they tend to outspeed you so play it carefully.
Ruling: Flygon 60 - Dialga G 40


Dialga G/Palkia G: You max out at 80 damage in this matchup due to Palkia G's power. In addition, be careful of weakness on Hippowdon. Like the dialga G Matchup, you still need to watch for power spray, but you also have the added problem of Mesprit locks to deal with. If they manage to prevent Trapinch from getting his power off then you are in trouble. Build a Flygon X on the bench and snipe what you can before they revenge kill you. It's a difficult matchup, but through usage of Flygon Lv.X, you should be trading 2 prizes for every one. Still, This is more difficult then straight Dialga due to weakness and their ability to power lock/snipe you bench.
Flygon 50 - Dialga G/Palkia G 50


Legos: Similar to the Dialga/Palkia matchup, this depends on the number of Mesprit's being run by your opponent and how quickly they can snipe your bench. If they can slow you down enough through power lock and hit your benched Trapinch/Vibrava's then you are in trouble. Strategy is very similar to the last. Don't worry about Hippowdon and go for broke in getting a Flygon Lv.X set-up. If you can snipe the Palkia X then you have a decent shot of winning, but only if you can do it while a reasonable amount behind. A difficult matchup
Ruling: Flygon 45 - Legos 55


Kingdra: While it has seen a considerable drop in play, it is still a viable deck. However, you have one major ace in the hole against Kingdra. Vibrava. Vibrava renders Aqua stream useless against Flygon. If they Aqua stream with less then 7 energy in their discard then it is weaker then a boosted Dragon pump, but if they don't then you can hit their active Kingdra for 140+ with a Vibrava and change the tide of the game. They do have a speed and weakness advantage though, as well as the ability to donk early, so it's still not a positive matchup, just remember exactly how good Vibrava can be here for turning the tide.

Ruling: Flygon 45 - Kingdra 55


Ttar: You don't use very many powers outside of Trapinch, and you can Utilize both Sand reset and Tyranitar's weakness extremely effectively. This is probably one of your easier matchups, just watch out for a Sableye donk or a quickly set-up tyrannitar. Still, barring bad starts and prizes, you should win this more often then not.
Ruling: Flygon 75 - Ttar 25


AMU/PAMU: Battle of One hit Ko's. They one hit you with Supreme blast and you One hit them with Both Flygon's second attack, and Xtreme attack, although if snowpoint is in play, only the latter is a One hit KO. This is not an issue because of Flygon's first attack however. Allowing you to do 40, discard the stadium, and follow up with a Ko the next turn. The speed difference is noticible, but not substantial enough to cause major problems, Flygon has the edge here due to Flygon Lv.X, but watch out for supreme Blasts.
Ruling: Flygon 60 - AMU/PAMU 40


Toolbox/Toxitank: They can outspeed you and donk you, but if you manage to get a Flygon powered up then you should be able to win due to the invincibility provided by the first attack. The only major threat toxitank poses is the donk, which should still be watched for.
Ruling: Flygon 75 - Toolbox/Toxitank 25


Gengar + Variants: A difficult matchup. Gastly Trainer locks you preventing you from getting an early Flygon. To make matters worse, Trapinch has a power, meaning it can actually be donked by shadow room(LOL). They have resistence as well, meaning you won't get any OHKO's against them. In addition the coin-flip further throws the matchup in their favor. Although you can Circumvent the Coinflip through careful Usage of Flygon Sw, this is still an incredibly difficult matchup due to Shadow room sniping benched Trapniches and Coin flips taking care of your active Flygon. Anti-gengar techs(De-evoluter) are highly reccomended.
Ruling: Flygon 35 - Gengar 65

GeChamp: This matchups difficulty lies solely in who they start with. If they start with a Gastly, then it's as tough as Gengar, if they start with Machop then the fear of a Shadow room donk is gone, as well as any immediate threat to the active flygon. It takes 4 heads on hurricane punch to knock out a Flygon, however you won't get much usage out of Flygon X in this matchup outside of the extra HP and mill. X-treme attack does do 190 damage to machamp level X, but you should rarely have to use it like that. Hippowdon is dead weight in this matchup due to low energy costs for Machamp and Gengar. Still, it's a little easier then Gengar

Ruling: Flygon 45 - GeChamp 55


Machamp + Variants: Much easier then Gengar. You have an advantage here due to Take out only doing 40 damage and you being able to hit for much more damage much faster against them. Hippowdon is pretty useless, but their main attack against you is luck-based, while yours is most certainly not.
Ruling: Flygon 65 - Machamp + Variants 35(Matchup changes to 40-60 if Machamp player is using Rigged dice)


Blaziken + Variants: Finally a simple matchup. They rely on Heatran for consistency and you can snipe Heatran easily. In addition free retreat makes it simple to get Away from burn, and Hippowdon can mess them up once they get set-up. You have an edge in most places here, and the matchup reflects it accordingly.
Ruling: Flygon 70 - Blaziken + Variants 30


Speedrill: Beedrill can one hit you with one energy. In addition, it doesn't have to play a stadium if you drop your own time space tear. It is for this reason that it is reccomended that you do not drop your own stadium. If you can force them to use a stadium then you can 2 hit a Beedrill safely. Still, Beedrill one hitting you is a Problem. Level up quickly and hope that they don't have enough pluspowers/bucks to one hit your Level X. Hippowdon is pretty useless here thanks to the cheap attack cost of Beedrill
Ruling: Flygon 40 - Speedrill 60


Regigigas: The Most important part of this matchup. Regigigas can One hit your main attacker as well as your level X. Being as you cannot evolve and level up in the same turn, it is Highly reccomended that you wall with Hippowdon while setting up a flygon on the bench. Once the Hippowdon dies, bring up the Flygon, level it up, and Kill regigigas. This sets Gigas back pretty far, but If Gigas runs Mesprit then they will without a doubt outspeed you. This matchup depends on how far you get behind and when you use your Sand reset Poke-power. No matchup where they One hit-Ko your main attacker is easy, and this is no exception.

Ruling: Flygon 50 - Regigigas 50

Holy Handgrenades, an accurate matchup!

Torterrible/Shaymin Variants: The reliance on Shaymin is too heavy and easily KOd with Flygon. Torterra is a force on its own, but can be taken down with Flygon RR and a good bench on your part. If they are foolish enough to play a dawn's, then grab the opportunity and protect ftw.

Ruling: Flygon 65 - Torterra 35


Flygon + Mirror: This is the most interesting test I have done as the weakness to colorless on the RR Flygon lineup means its back and forth KO. Use the advantage of strong supporters and drawing power to setup faster. It is the only way (obviously strategy must compliment this) to win a mirror when the mirror is so potent.
Ruling: Flygon 50 - Mirror 50

Porygon- They outspeed you and only need 2 energy to attack. They also don't need to drop the level X, meaning you are trading prizes at a Poor ratio with them. Sand Reset is Key here. Use it when they have 4 or more Tm's on the field and it will set them back quite a bit. Still, even with Hippowdon hitting their Weakness, they outspeed the Hippo and he can't respond with One Hit KO's. Definetly in Porygon's Favor.

Ruling: Flygon 35 - Porygon 65


There, there are some more believable matchups for you. Now, the predictable response will be "I tested over 90 games and you think I don't know my Matchups?" My answer, yes. Not accurately anyways. I'm going to borrow a comparison from the Video game world here.

In Video games such as Smash brothers(Melee, Brawl) Tier lists are determined by two players playing at an equal skill level. This is the first problem with your matchups. We are to inheritely believe that your opponents are as good as you. I for one cannot believe that when reviewing your matchups.

Secondly, your metagame- You claim that you have faced 16 different competitive decks numerous times. Georiga Regionals, with your established metagame, had a grand total of 6-8 different decks in T16. Either everyone around you plays pokemon, or you have friends building decks with the sole purpose of testing against your Flygon. This is a form of Bias not commonly recognized.

By having someone else build a deck just to test against it you are losing some crucial factors. There is the abscence of techs, the occurence of Misplays, and the Inability to have tweaked the deck to their liking. In your case, having Proxied and played Flygon for quite a while from what i gathered, you have had the opprotunity to eliminate misplays, find suitable techs, and tweak your deck to how you had seen fit. That automatically sways most matchups about 15% in your favor.

I'm not personally attacking you, I'm simply saying that you can claim your not Biased, but unless you compete against all these decks at a Premier event level then your matchups are no better then theoreymon. From a certain perspective, they can actually be worse.


Also, run 4 call energy, it's the best card in the format.


Overall I agree with your statement on the meta. I would absolutely have loved to been able to take Flygon to Regionals and have outside results. Unfortunately I rely on a handful of friends, leagues and solitaire games to constitute as my evidence. That is what I have to work with and until Nats and BR, I can not change that. I think it is better than your average Theorymon, but at the same time you are right in saying there is some bias with the fact that my opponent does not always play the matchup deck as thoroughly as I do Flygon.

Very good points within this. In theory, these all make perfect sense. I will admit some things have changed since I originally wrote this and your gigas observation has proved to be accurate. After playing more than 20 games against my friend's great gigas deck, I won 14-15 of them. I would say 70-75% of the time Flygon takes the prize but that was purely based on my skill as a player. The deck itself if given to someone with no experience with it would almost absolutely lose majority of the time against gigas. Thankfully Hippo and SW Flygon gave me great advantages.

Calls are ok but I like the T1 Felicity and T2 Flygon Power Swing more.

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I wonder how this deck does vs. Abomasnow?

Plus I honestly don't think Hippo is Flygon's best combo. There is little to no synergy between them. Your better of using some other more useful sidekicks like Blissey (PL), Manectric(PL), Gardevoir (SW), Alakazam(MT). With Blissey you have a combo similar to that of Queendom from a few years ago.

See my Flygon Players Read This thread in the cards section. These cards are foo foo and trust me I have played them all (except Gardy) and none of them provide any real substance that can be used effectively like FlyDon. HOWEVER, you are correct in stating that Hippowdon may not be the best. I am perfectly aware of this as just recently Hippowdon has been taken out as I have a better record with a new variant (none of the ones you listed) as the new variant provides substance and is able to sustain itself. Blissey works out to be the best of ones you suggested.
 
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calisupra2nr, I like your deck, it's pretty cool. My only suggestions would be the following:
1) -1 Stark Mountain, +1 BTS
I understand where you're coming from with running the Starks, but I feel as though the BTS's are much more vital, as it allows you to put stuff back up through night maintenance and rose/bebe's/lux ball etc to keep the flygon onslaught going.
2) -2 Pokedex and -1 Pokeradar, +3 Quick Ball
I see quick ball as very necessary in this deck, because you could use ANY of you're Pokemon, basically at any time in the game. Quick Ball ensures that you get one (obviously).

I hope I've been of some help, and again, good job and the deck and good luck with it!
 
calisupra2nr, I like your deck, it's pretty cool. My only suggestions would be the following:
1) -1 Stark Mountain, +1 BTS
I understand where you're coming from with running the Starks, but I feel as though the BTS's are much more vital, as it allows you to put stuff back up through night maintenance and rose/bebe's/lux ball etc to keep the flygon onslaught going.
2) -2 Pokedex and -1 Pokeradar, +3 Quick Ball
I see quick ball as very necessary in this deck, because you could use ANY of you're Pokemon, basically at any time in the game. Quick Ball ensures that you get one (obviously).

I hope I've been of some help, and again, good job and the deck and good luck with it!

I like your input. The quick balls are a great item to consider as I normally do not think to include them in much. The stark and bts combination really just depends on the game and neither have proved to be better with more or less. I switch them in and out all the time. Thanks.
 
did you play test against dusknoir?, pure manetric?

No sir, I did not even think about that. I think I will just to see what happens, but I think Dusknoir has seen its days pass and Manectric is pretty rogue. That does not mean if someone plays this against me I win, in contrast, Manectric actually puts a dent in Flygon Xtreme attack. Luckily if the deck is pure manectric I will not need to use it. Also, I have fighting as his weakness so from just thinking about it, it may not turn out well.
 
BIG EDIT: Decklist was reworked and now shows HUGE improvement. This is substantial as before it was good, but now it is great.
 
Just curious, to what extent have you tested the GeChamp matchup? I'm no proponent, merely stating that you have no hard counter to Fainting Spell, you have lots of Shadow Room and some Poltergeist vulnerability, and your Sand Reset doesn't hinder them when they each have overwhelming attacks at the one energy drop. I want to know if this becomes a factor or if you've tested it extensively against a solid GeChamp player/list.
 
Just curious, to what extent have you tested the GeChamp matchup? I'm no proponent, merely stating that you have no hard counter to Fainting Spell, you have lots of Shadow Room and some Poltergeist vulnerability, and your Sand Reset doesn't hinder them when they each have overwhelming attacks at the one energy drop. I want to know if this becomes a factor or if you've tested it extensively against a solid GeChamp player/list.

GeChamp is actually easier then facing a straight Gar deck. Assuming that most of your post means you are more concerned with Gengar, that is what I will address. In this case for Gengar, I use Flygon SW body to finish off when I can to avoid the spell. Sometimes I even use Uxie for the final 10-20 for the KO. In terms of Poltergeist, it really does not do much damage as I am playing my trainers as soon as I get them (in order to get or evolve my pokemon). Shadow Room on the other hand is the bad part. I just have to attack, attack, attack and fight my way through this. I may end changing things around for an unown g. I will wait for the RR meta to become fully established first, to see how popular gengar remains. Thanks for the interest.

Adam
 
I like what you've done here, but I don't agree with the deck, But I'm going to leave it at that so we don't flood this with more hate posts. (mainly because I'm not a huge Flygon fan)

The "article" itself is a very nice read. Congrats for that.
 
I like what you've done here, but I don't agree with the deck, But I'm going to leave it at that so we don't flood this with more hate posts. (mainly because I'm not a huge Flygon fan)

The "article" itself is a very nice read. Congrats for that.

I appreciate that. I did not set out to convince or preach to everyone. It was merely to attract Flygon fans to a controversial deck that contrary to popular belief, does very well. Personally, Flygon is a favorite of mine so as soon as I heard of a Lv X I began to build and test. Other people think he is ok and if I were not a big fan of him I would probably follow that mindset. To each their own.
 
Well, that was harsh? I admit I'm being rough with him, but posting poor testing results only misinforms the rest of the pokemon community. No matter how much time he has spent on the deck, all he's giving the rest of the players is bad advice. I'd rather have a concise post with some admittance that some of the results may be off instead of trying to post something formal and professional looking that every player starts to follow and regret in the end because the article was wrong. Regardless of intent, it only makes all the new players worse off.

When you're getting insane deck results across the board it's really time to start looking where you're going with your testing and seeing if you made some mistakes, and fix them before posting a long article. The whole article needs help because they're based only on his results with an obvious bias, something that he failed to fix.

Every post on the Pokegym is biased (aside from reports from events, rulings, and event info) - even your posts. You calling this 'bad advice' is your biased opinion. No matter where they turn, players need to think critically about what they're reading.

Your posts do come off as rude and know-it-all - if you can't give constructive criticism, what is the point of even posting?
 
Well, that was harsh? I admit I'm being rough with him, but posting poor testing results only misinforms the rest of the pokemon community. No matter how much time he has spent on the deck, all he's giving the rest of the players is bad advice. I'd rather have a concise post with some admittance that some of the results may be off instead of trying to post something formal and professional looking that every player starts to follow and regret in the end because the article was wrong. Regardless of intent, it only makes all the new players worse off.

When you're getting insane deck results across the board it's really time to start looking where you're going with your testing and seeing if you made some mistakes, and fix them before posting a long article. The whole article needs help because they're based only on his results with an obvious bias, something that he failed to fix.

Watch who you're talking to you. I am not some random new player that just decided to foil up some formal deck that is really failure. Testing is testing and sure they are my results, but how else would I get them? I work together with several other Flygon players on this board and I also ask for input from outside players such as those Gengars, Machamps, G's and Kingdras so I can get accurate decklists to test against. My test results were not insane... go look at them. I have only edited my gengar matchup as I continued to test against dark artisans variant and it added to my loss column.

I clearly stated this deck is not for everyone and it is not the best thing out there. If you want to take it as that go ahead, but do not lecture me. I hate being lectured. It is ineffective and in real life I would just ignore you. Since you are overflowing to the rest of my thread, I must intervene and ask for you to keep your thoughts to yourself as vegi is right, you are biased in thinking you know what your talking about.
 
You talk a bit in the machamp matchup about having resistance, but Flygon is resistant to lightning, not fighting. :x
 
You talk a bit in the machamp matchup about having resistance, but Flygon is resistant to lightning, not fighting. :x

wow, great catch. I must have been thinking about amphylock when typing up this matchup. Edited and credit to Ralts for doing some great proofreading.
 
alright guys its time to start fresh again so any one who reads the list please just give constructive critism about the list i hate to see people fighting over things on the posts and just getting other people involved when there is other posts that actually needs help when they just go without the help because people are stuck on arguing on one thread and not taking a glance at others so if you guys can keep that in mind i would really appreciate it yours truely- Mamoswine42
 
Get the article right the first time and I won't feel the need to post anything.

And I know exactly what I'm talking about, if you're still acting like this after I sent my apology, it's pretty obvious you're the one who's the stubborn one, now.

The article is constantly being shifted as I continue to play with the deck. The fundamentals remain the same and are sound. I just read your apologetic pm and I think things like that need to stay in the pm's and not in the thread.

Mamoswine is right, keep this on topic.


To follow suit, I was thinking of changing around my quickball and pokeradar lines. Maybe -1 radar and +1 quick. How does everyone feel about quick balls? Also maybe drop azelf and add unown g for protection against gengar?
 
I think Quickball is a better idea in this deck; less random, and at 21 pokemon (many of which you will have most likely already have searched), you are better off guaranteeing one.
 
Also Pokeric make a comment that I originally played once or twice and that was concerning upper energy. I think I will change some things around tonight and test some more with 2 upper.
 
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