US Nationals 2010

[PuRpLe]

I really can't see any argument against NYC except "those people" would rather lay on a beach surrounded by palm trees. Lol ((I live in PA))
NYC is great every chance I get I make the trip.
Food is easy and cheap to get, there's a fast food, sandwich spots, pizzerias or a Starbucks on every block lol. There's actual CULTURE and things to see. Its easy and cheap to get around on the subway. Besides MANY aquariums, zoos, the statue of liberty, TIMES SQUARE, south st. seaport, CENTRAL PARK, beaches, museums, pools, Yankee Stadium, BROADWAY etc etc. I can keep going on but whatever whats the point it'll never happen.

(((Worlds or Nats in nyc someday plz seriously consider!)))

 

[The King Of Magikarps]

The thing is though that it is an expensive place. Also it isn't fair for the people who live on the west coast. I live VA and NYC may sound like a great place, but the Subway is not a place you want to be in late at night and it is very confusing. I would be surprised if it was there. Also where was there a beach in Columbus or St. Louis?

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

If you don't live here, you should do better research

The Wheeler downtown airport is the one that's 2 minutes away. It does not service commercial jet traffic. Kansas City International, which is where you would all fly in, is 25 minutes northwest. And we have no light rail, so come expecting to rent a car.

We have done Magic Pro Tour and Grand Prix events at this hall before, so we are certainly not strangers to large-scale gaming tournaments around here. Also, our local vendor is much better.

Oh, I simply saw an Airport north of the center I listed on Google Earth. Now that I look at it it does look rather small.

 

[Box of Fail]

I live on the East Coast. PLEASE don't hold it here. The only reason people want it on the East Coast is that so many people live here, and thus people would save money. This means more attendance, which means more competition. Hold it somewhere remote so people have to pay a lot to get there, please

 

[Qwachansey]

I don't think this thread will be very successful because naturally, people will want Nationals to be as close to their home as possible. For obvious reasons I would prefer to go to an event I can walk to (total cost: $0) or take the subway to (total cost: $4.50) than one I have to fly thousands of miles for (total cost: $TOO MUCH)

Then again - the experience? Priceless!

 

[SLOW DECK]

Please look at the various population density maps of the United states.. Maybe folks will understand why Columbus, Indianapolis, Nashville are great spots on the western. St Louis is what it is.

http://www.census.gov/geo/www/mapGallery/images/2k_night.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_population_map.png

Picking a place like Kansas city or Denver just means everyone will have a undriveable distance to go.
The west coast is just silly to expect many folks to drive from there, the Worlds on the left side is enough of a nugget for them...
Find Nashville in the middle of Tennessee, you can see why I would always be in favor of Nashville, Indianapolis, and Columbus region.

I think the Pokemon event planners are looking at costs, since they are flipping the bill.
Then they want a affordable, drivable ,or flyable location for as many people as possible.
(Hey I have been to the bricktown area this year in OKC, it was great, but I think it fails the "most amount of people can get to ")

 

[vanderbilt_grad]

Being "Vanderbilt_Grad" I would never ever argue against holding ANYTHING in Nashville TN!

I suspect that this LINK shows one reason why St Louis might have been chosen. It's darn close to the median population center of the US making it about equally far for everyone to travel ... in theory.

In practice your maps are correct. Most west coast folks face a really crazy drive and end up flying even for a "median center" like St Louis.

 

[DarthPika]

The west coast has to fly any way you look at it. Hold nats in Baltimore (I say Baltimore over D.C. for a few very good reasons).

Look at the east coast. Look around the middle... Guess what's there? Baltimore. :/ Considering how HUGE the player base is in this area, I really do think we deserve to get SOMETHING by now.

 

[Rew]

well, considering the people in portland, compared to the people in texas

Also consider the area of both States, the reason we don't have 100 person Cities and Battle Roads is because there is more than one on the day because Northeast Texas and South Texas are too far apart for people to travel to every event. Not only that, Portland would be a horrible place to run Nationals, considering that the entire United States, minus the West Coast, would have Sour Grapes.

 

[Box of Fail]

The west coast has to fly any way you look at it. Hold nats in Baltimore (I say Baltimore over D.C. for a few very good reasons).

Look at the east coast. Look around the middle... Guess what's there? Baltimore. :/ Considering how HUGE the player base is in this area, I really do think we deserve to get SOMETHING by now.

And notice how your choice is in your home state -_-

Secondary cities like Portland, Seattle, Boston, Baltimore, Columbus, Providence, Hartford, Houston, Tampa, Dallas, Jackson, Pittsburg, Tuscon, St. Paul, Philadelphia, and such shouldn't even be considered.

If it's to be the east coast, make it far from DP, preferably NY! I think the only acceptable locations, big enough to be noteworthy enough, would be:

St. Louis, New York, Phoenix, San Diego, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, New Orleans, Miami, Orlando, Atlanta, Detroit, and possibly D.C.

 

[DarthPika]

And notice how your choice is in your home state -_-

Secondary cities like Portland, Seattle, Boston, Baltimore, Columbus, Providence, Hartford, Houston, Tampa, Dallas, Jackson, Pittsburg, Tuscon, St. Paul, Philadelphia, and such shouldn't even be considered.

If it's to be the east coast, make it far from DP, preferably NY! I think the only acceptable locations, big enough to be noteworthy enough, would be:

St. Louis, New York, Phoenix, San Diego, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, New Orleans, Miami, Orlando, Atlanta, Detroit, and possibly D.C.

Ya, I live in MD, and I said Baltimore over DC for some very good reasons. Notable ones include the fact that Baltimore is over all the easier city to stay at due to traffic/hotels and such. Also, it has a very large convention center. Furthermore, it's not like those visiting couldn't go down to D.C. for a day or so. It's not exactly far to drive. :/

For the record... Baltimore is far better than St. Louis. And I'm not saying this for the driving time for me either. I've been to both places. Baltimore is just plain old nicer.

And no, I wouldn't mind it being in NY at all. I just looooooove how you over look my whole post JUST to say that "oh you live in MD so your post doesn't count for anything". I gave several very good reasons why Baltimore would be a good nats location. TBH, as long as it's in a nice city on the east coast, I really don't care that much.

 

[pokemonrocks777]

and y can't be in NM in the albrequrque area???

 

[legotack]

And notice how your choice is in your home state -_-

Secondary cities like Portland, Seattle, Boston, Baltimore, Columbus, Providence, Hartford, Houston, Tampa, Dallas, Jackson, Pittsburg, Tuscon, St. Paul, Philadelphia, and such shouldn't even be considered.

If it's to be the east coast, make it far from DP, preferably NY! I think the only acceptable locations, big enough to be noteworthy enough, would be:

St. Louis, New York, Phoenix, San Diego, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, New Orleans, Miami, Orlando, Atlanta, Detroit, and possibly D.C.

I don't think New Orleans is holding any events for a while. If not for the hurricane, it would be great!

 

[The Gorn]

I will reiterate my initial point...


2005 Nationals - Midwest

2005 Worlds - West Coast


2006 Nationals - Midwest

2006 Worlds - West Coast


2007 Nationals - Midwest

2007 Worlds - Hawaii


2008 Nationals - Midwest

2008 Worlds - Orlando (East Coast)


2009 US Nationals - Midwest

2009 Worlds - West Coast


2010 US Nationals - TBD

2010 Worlds - Hawaii


If 2010 US Nationals is not on the East Cost, then it will be at least 3 years between major events on the East Coast.

And only ONCE in the past 6 years.


That's just not right.

There are too many player on the East Coast to not warrant a major event.

 

[DarthPika]

I would just like to point out that FL hardly counts as the East Coast as it is. From Annapolis MD, (which is about the middle of the East Coast) it's a 22hour drive to FL. That's longer than it was to stupid St. Louis.

Please... show some love for the NE. We're starting to feel forgotten. :'(

 

[drmario]

And notice how your choice is in your home state -_-

Secondary cities like Portland, Seattle, Boston, Baltimore, Columbus, Providence, Hartford, Houston, Tampa, Dallas, Jackson, Pittsburg, Tuscon, St. Paul, Philadelphia, and such shouldn't even be considered.

If it's to be the east coast, make it far from DP, preferably NY! I think the only acceptable locations, big enough to be noteworthy enough, would be:

St. Louis, New York, Phoenix, San Diego, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, New Orleans, Miami, Orlando, Atlanta, Detroit, and possibly D.C.

I would love to see how you came up with that list of "secondary cities". Apparently none of it is rooted in fact. If you would have bothered to look up the top Metro areas in the US by population, you may have noticed that Houston is the 6th largest Metro area in the country. It's actually LARGER than all but 4 of the cities that you say are big enough to be noteworthy.

To further illustrate my point, the Philadelphia metro area is the 5th largest in the country. New Orleans only has about 255,000 people living it in at the moment. They're the 46th largest metro area in the country.

And just a few more points. Dallas is hardly a secondary city. It has the 4th largest metro area in the country.

Why am I counting metro areas instead of just the city population? Because it makes more sense for the purpose of this discussion. It also gives you a more accurate view of how many people really live in the area.

So as you can see, your list of secondary cities is woefully inaccurate. You put some of the largest cities in the country in that list. Maybe before you categorize do this again you could do a little bit of research.

 

[Chairman Kaga]

I will reiterate my initial point...

And I'll reiterate mine (using yours):

2005 Nationals - Midwest
2006 Nationals - Midwest
2007 Nationals - Midwest
2008 Nationals - Midwest
2009 US Nationals - Midwest

These threads inevitably devolve into a bunch of "hold Nats in my backyard" posts. It's not happening, unless your backyard happens to be the Midwest.

The reasons for this...well, apparently, I do need to enumerate them after all.

1. Cost of hosting the event itself. The primary consideration. Convention hall space in major population centers on both coasts is astronomically high. Major Midwest cities (like Chicago) are similarly priced. These cities also tend to have their convention space in high demand that does not necessarily align with TPCi's schedule. Responding to a point made earlier, secondary cities are all that will likely be considered for this reason alone.
2. Cost of people getting to the event. Some average airfare costs for various cities that have been thrown out here (taken from Bureau of Transportation Statistics report, Q1 2009):
   • Baltimore: $263.87
   • Columbus: $284.52
   • Chicago: $309.10
   • Indianapolis: $276.43
   • Kansas City: $287.65
   • Memphis: $396.52
   • Nashville: $289.17
   • New York City: $335.68
   • St. Louis: $297.99
   A lot of people drive to Nationals -- far more than is being credited in this thread. Average distance therefore becomes a factor, along with gas prices (the closer to either coast, the more expensive it gets).
3. Cost of people staying at the event. Average per-diem prices (combined hotel, car rental, and food costs, taken from Business Travel News Corporate Travel Index 2009):
   • Baltimore: $407.72
   • Columbus: $319.05
   • Chicago: $436.95
   • Indianapolis: $298.98
   • Kansas City: $331.17
   • Memphis: $346.57
   • Nashville: $316.22
   • New York City: $615.19
   • St. Louis: $298.27
4. Cost of TPCi getting to the event. Besides transporting their personnel to the event site, TPCi also has to invest in freight transportation for all the stage and display pieces. It's far cheaper to transport across half the country then across the entire country.

Most of you toss out city suggestions but fail to consider any of the dynamics surrounding the city choice. It's not a "hey, this city is nice, let's go there" decision. It's a "hey, we want a great event without bankrupting the company" decision.

There are some other non-financial factors to consider that were obviously not researched for Nationals this year (availability of things such as food, and the area crime rate). Hopefully the lesson was learned this year. Major corporations hire event planners to scout and avoid these issues, along with researching the major points above; TPCi should do the same next year.

 

[drmario]

There are some other non-financial factors to consider that were obviously not researched for Nationals this year (availability of things such as food, and the area crime rate). Hopefully the lesson was learned this year. Major corporations hire event planners to scout and avoid these issues, along with researching the major points above; TPCi should do the same next year.

In this day and age, it would've taken minutes on Google Maps (or some other similar service) to find out about local dining. All you do is type in the location of the convention center, and then search for "fast food". So unfortunately that excuse really doesn't fly.

As for the crime rate, St. Louis is the most dangerous city in the country. Sure there are bad areas and good areas, but don't you think that having the distinction of being the most dangerous city in the country would set off some alarms?

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

1. Cost of people getting to the event. Some average airfare costs for various cities that have been thrown out here (taken from Bureau of Transportation Statistics report, Q1 2009):
   • Baltimore: $263.87
   • Columbus: $284.52
   • Chicago: $309.10
   • Indianapolis: $276.43
   • Kansas City: $287.65
   • Memphis: $396.52
   • Nashville: $289.17
   • New York City: $335.68
   • St. Louis: $297.99
   A lot of people drive to Nationals -- far more than is being credited in this thread. Average distance therefore becomes a factor, along with gas prices (the closer to either coast, the more expensive it gets).

You also fail to realize, that for anyone on the West Coast, the Midwest is way to far to drive. They all have to fly. The price difference between flying from San Diego, CA to St. Louis, and from San Diego to Columbus, OH was about $5 around the time of Nationals last year. However by moving Nationals from Columbus to St. Louis, many people on the East Coast who used to be able to drive had to fly. Even with high gas prices, it's far more cost effective to stuff 5 or more people in a car or SUV than it is to fly that number of people. My point is, if Nationals is in the Midwest, or the East Coast, everyone on the West Coast has to fly. If it's in the Midwest, people on the West and East coast have to fly. If Nationals where on the East coast, generally only people on the West Coast would have to fly. Obviously I'm making some generalizations, however, the bottom line is that flying costs more than driving, and that it would be prudent to place Nationals in a location that allows the largest number of people possible to drive there.

 

[DarthPika]

Oh so suddenly cost is a factor? Do you think we're stupid or something? You hold words in HAWAII and then tell us you were afraid that one city might cost too much? Please... stop treating your players like we're stupid.

And crime rate? Jeez... you put us in St. Louis. More than one friend told me about rather strange encounters that they would have liked to avoid.

 

[Prodigiosus]

Hey, if it's in New York, you can all stay at my house! About the prices-at least you can find food EVERYWHERE here in New York City... In Manhattan, I assure you, every block has a hot dog vendor, Starbucks, McDonalds, or some other place where you can get a cheap meal for a decent price. Compare that to St. Louis where people had trouble finding some place to EAT.

Seriously though. do you know how much it costs to fly to Hawaii from New York? There are hardly EVER any direct flights. And it's even rare to find a flight that has 1 layover. Two layovers-three chances for you to be delayed, or canceled. After two years of bad experiences of missing Nationals (we had to make a sudden road trip to Ohio at 11 at night in 2008... not very pleasant!), I do not want another one due to missing flights.

 

[The Gorn]

I really don't like these "put it in my backyard" suggestions. They add nothing.

But if travel cost for players were a major consideration, would Worlds REALLY be held in Hawaii 2 out of 4 years?!

(Sorry, I think Prodigiosus mae the same point)