(Who plays jumpluff anymore, for serious?
)
It is kinda popular here; seen a few. That was just an example
I can go into a metagame of Machamp with Luxchomp and do well. I have done it before.
I can not go into a metagame of Shuppet with Luxchomp and do well.
Again, just an example
Donks shut other decks down by preventing the game from ever even starting. It's not a metagame issue when there are no decks that can reliably stand up to it.
All right, let's be honest. Have you ever been donked when playing Vilegar with Calls before? Maybe once or twice by Sableye; but it's unlikely. Like, what if, every time you played BLG, you'd have all your Blazikens, Luxrays, and Garchomps prized. You have little shot of winning now; but that's just luck. It's just luck that you didn't have a double Tomb start when I Cycloned your Tomb awa. It's unlucky that you missed that SSU on that Uxie that may have gotten you a collector. Donks are DEPENDENT on luck. I'm a donk.dec player; I would know. You have to be pretty darn lucky; and know when to go for the donk and when not to when playing a donk deck.
Not really: Sableye doesn't have room, there would be zero point in Gyarados, and Machamp needs the fighting for Take Out. They would if they could, that's the thing. When half of the serious metagame doesn't run a card, it stops being universal. Great obviously, but not universal.
OK, maybe I stretched it a bit. Machamp, imo, can use it better tho. Just saying.
I... what? What am I supposed to get out of this sentence? "it works" - so it does good? "But" it works? It's moderately successful, but it does good? What? Make up your mind. Is it good or not.
lol sorry, I grammar failed :lol:. My bad. It is good when it works (by sheer speed and overpowerment).
Don't even lie, it does 40. <<
When you put it down...
And yet you just told me that if people want to avoid getting donked they should just run Vilegar... but Vilegar doesn't even have a solid shot against you... which was my point to begin with...
What is "solid"? Vilegar has a VERY favorable Beedrill G matchup (it's hard even IF you know what you're doing and your opponent misplays) but, let's be honest, it's pretty hard for me to donk a Vilegar; at least with Beedrill G. If you play Gyarados and 4 Magikarps/Azelf get prized, then you're probably gonna lose. Have you played the Beedrill/Vilegar matchup? It's a pain; I don't even like playtesting it. They have a good shot if they don't get donked. Yes, they MAY get donked, but this is rare.
Well, yes, obviously. I have no idea what this has to do with Shuppet/Beedrill/Uxie, though. I can take Beedrill into an area that plays Luxchomp, Gyarados, AND Machamp. AND Sableye. AND Dialga! Why? Because I don't care what my opponent plays. They start with one, MAYBE two Pokemon. I can end the game on my first turn with trainers. Doesn't matter what those Pokemon were, I can KO them.
It's essentially saying that you may have to play different stuff depending on the decks in your meta. Just adapt and play the correct build/deck.
I don't think you see the basis of this argument.
Mmkay
I suppose I should be acknowledging that Uxie/Beedrill/donkwhatever.dec is not BDIF by a stretch, and that's for numerous reasons - it has trouble if it doesn't go second, it DOES sometimes hit those Tomb/Call/Gastly/Spray starts, etc, etc. But they remain a pretty solid gameplay option. The fact that such an option exists, one that isn't fun to play against at all and resolves games without allowing the opponent to take their turn, is the issue. If it was just this silly thing that never worked, then yeah, it can be a silly thing that doesn't work, but the fact that we are even having to discuss how Beedrill or Shuppet actually matters in a tournament proves that the problem exists.
So, are you saying that Beedrill G is viable only because it donks? I have played 15 matches this season. Guess how many were donks. Guess. 1 was. ONE GAME. 1/15 of my games were donks. What were my other wins? Sheer outspeeding and overpowering.
I have nothing against new decks, but I have a lot against donk decks.