DragonairMaster8
Active Member
HGSS-on fixes problems 1 and 3 from the OP. I didnt read all the posts in the thread realizing that I posted in the middle of a discussion about something else entirely.
Issues Facing the TCG
- Thread starter Ness
- Start date
- Status
HGSS-on fixes problems 1 and 3 from the OP. I didnt read all the posts in the thread realizing that I posted in the middle of a discussion about something else entirely.
Skull Hatter
New Member
The problem with volunteering is you DON'T get to play. For bigger events, you are missing on vital playing and points.
ChaosJim
Member
As someone who wouldn't mind entry fees, I think it is also worth noting for countries that do charge them, you have no idea how many people AREN'T coming, and how much bigger things might be (unless there was a time when events were free, and you could track your event growth rate against a standard sample).
NoPoke
Active Member
regarding free vs fee: I know what has been happening to my Junior attendances. An entry fee is just yet another reason for parents not to want to attend. If fees were introduced in the USA then not much would change for a couple of years as the current band of juniors will stay with the game, but if hard times continue for parents during those two years then the future is not so good. It is much harder to attract new juniors when there is an entry fee.
For the first time that I can remember my BR tournament had zero juniors.
For the first time that I can remember my BR tournament had zero juniors.
Agreed, I had the worst time getting judges for our cities a few years ago because everyone in the area wanted a shot at those rating points and prizes. I'm one of those players who has the rules down pat but rarely top cuts at a tournament - so I never mind judging.
Exactly. As I mentioned before, a lot of parents aren't too keen about constantly spending money on cards, let alone paying an entry fee for a tournament. Juniors are essential because they will keep the game going in the future.
Benzo
Front Page News Editor<br>Forum Moderator
@skull hatter- Yes, player points are important to getting invites and status, ect....- Volunteering is on a personal basis for those who want to or are willing to contribute back into the Pokemon community.
Not everyone can affort/take vacation/time off of work who are some of the best players around.
It is a personal choice on their part to see what kind of a reward they are looking for: help the community or ranking.
Maybe those who volunteer can be given player points to help that player keep with in their goal of keeping their ranks up.
@ice'cold- The vg scene is a lot larger then you think, and it DOES NOT require expensive equipment to have a tournament. Nintendo does their thing, and it is on their budget as Nintendo has access to all the DS's needed to hold their event. With 1 million+ copies of cartridges sold, and having DS's at their use, and paid employees with VOLUNTEERS- Nintendo can provide the VGC on THEIR method of giving back to those who play the video game.
TCPI on the other hand is focused mainly on the card game aspect, and thus is BRANCHING out to accomidate DS players as well in the community.
TCPI/PTO's can only rely on KNOWLAGED VOLUNTEERS to run the DS and do the best they can to keep cheating out of the mix. TCPI and the PTO's can find experianced and knowlaged players in the local area of where their is a fanbase/community of TCG players and ask around to find a DS player who is willing to at least assist or run the DS tournaments.
Also- if you doubt seeing the video game tournaments on a scale level of the TCG- 1 million plus sold game cartridges vs the number of TCG players with POP ID's- you do the math.
MAYBE TCPI and NINTENDO can team up and help each other out to bring the VG scene to a larger scale.
( and man- do I have ideas on this)(but- this is another topic for a different thread)-
But having the VG tournies as a side event at Play Pokemon events is a GOOD thing and does bring in more interest in the TCG, meaning more possable players.
Also- even with all that "expensive" equipment- it still can not detect EVERY cheat, and whats to say that cheating does not happen in the TCG scene as well?
Not everyone can affort/take vacation/time off of work who are some of the best players around.
It is a personal choice on their part to see what kind of a reward they are looking for: help the community or ranking.
Maybe those who volunteer can be given player points to help that player keep with in their goal of keeping their ranks up.
@ice'cold- The vg scene is a lot larger then you think, and it DOES NOT require expensive equipment to have a tournament. Nintendo does their thing, and it is on their budget as Nintendo has access to all the DS's needed to hold their event. With 1 million+ copies of cartridges sold, and having DS's at their use, and paid employees with VOLUNTEERS- Nintendo can provide the VGC on THEIR method of giving back to those who play the video game.
TCPI on the other hand is focused mainly on the card game aspect, and thus is BRANCHING out to accomidate DS players as well in the community.
TCPI/PTO's can only rely on KNOWLAGED VOLUNTEERS to run the DS and do the best they can to keep cheating out of the mix. TCPI and the PTO's can find experianced and knowlaged players in the local area of where their is a fanbase/community of TCG players and ask around to find a DS player who is willing to at least assist or run the DS tournaments.
Also- if you doubt seeing the video game tournaments on a scale level of the TCG- 1 million plus sold game cartridges vs the number of TCG players with POP ID's- you do the math.
MAYBE TCPI and NINTENDO can team up and help each other out to bring the VG scene to a larger scale.
( and man- do I have ideas on this)(but- this is another topic for a different thread)-
But having the VG tournies as a side event at Play Pokemon events is a GOOD thing and does bring in more interest in the TCG, meaning more possable players.
Also- even with all that "expensive" equipment- it still can not detect EVERY cheat, and whats to say that cheating does not happen in the TCG scene as well?
Jimmy, I think I was unclear on my meaning of pre-registration. I meant like in the terms of nats, the night before where deck lists are collected.
I am all for 2 day regionals where attendance is so great the day ends after midnight for older players or 9pm for the younger ones. It is my preferred solution.
The other option is to start the events earlier, if it starts early enough there could be pre-registration the night before, like nats. Since an early start will have more people drive the Friday, and staying the night, registration that night works and speeds up the following day, therefor allowing an earlier start, therefor a decent ending time for the drive home that same day.
Or, a two day event. Drive there the morning it starts (registration could end at noon or so), play day one, make top-cut and play day two, then drive home that night.
Either way I spend one night away from home. The difference is in a 2-day event there is less stress! Will I make top cut? Heck no, Not even if I did play. But other people do.
Or the current situation, wake up at 4-5am, leave for the drive, arrive at your regionals, register, start the event at noon or so, play until well after midnight, maybe one or two. Then what? take the four hour drive home? Spend the night? OK, this is worse than the other two scenarios.
And before you talk about Juniors, note that I am not a player, I am a parent of a Junior. I am a huge advocate of Juniors entering the game and think selfishly in regards to the game being tailored to them, not to the college students who can and will adapt to any schedule. We were not going to nats in 2010 because I heard too much about nightmarishly late nights of years past, they made it three days and we made reservations within a week.
NoPoke
Active Member
from this years regional's attendance thread
note the figures for juniors and seniors. Only one of the junior's events manages A T16 cut and 7 rounds. Even for the seniors that only rises to three events. It is hard to arque that 6 rounds and a T8 cut requires a two day event.
Code:
[B]Regional Championship Jr / Sr / Ma = Total (Last Year) (% Difference)[/B]
[URL="http://www.pokemon.com/us/organized-play/tournaments/15859/"]South East [/URL]31 / 57 / 103 = 191 (25/36/73=134) (24 / 58.3 / 41.1 = 42.5)
[URL="http://www.pokemon.com/us/organized-play/tournaments/15692/"]Southern California [/URL]35 / 63 / 229 = 327 (36/47/158=241) (-2.8 / 34.0 / 44.9 = 35.7)
[URL="http://www.pokemon.com/us/organized-play/tournaments/15875/"]Mountain West [/URL]22 / 46 / 76 = 144 (24/36/65=125) (-8.3 / 27.8 / 16.9 = 15.2)
[URL="http://www.pokemon.com/us/organized-play/tournaments/15844/"]Midwest [/URL]42 / 58 / 105 = 205 (39/53/89=181) (7.7 / 9.4 / 18.0 = 13.3)
[URL="http://www.pokemon.com/us/organized-play/tournaments/15840/"]North East [/URL]48 / 49 / 160 = 257 (44/54/130=228) (9.1 / -9.3 / 23.1 = 12.7)
[URL="http://www.pokemon.com/us/organized-play/tournaments/15740/"]East Canada [/URL]42 / 46 / 81 = 169 (37/40/76=153) (13.5 / 15 / 6.6 = 10.5)
[URL="http://www.pokemon.com/us/organized-play/tournaments/15959/"]Great Lakes [/URL]36 / 48 / 146 = 230 (46/55/109=210) (-21.7 / -12.7 / 33.9 = 9.5)
[URL="http://www.pokemon.com/us/organized-play/tournaments/15918/"]Northern California [/URL]22 / 28 / 72 = 122 (24/29/74=127) (-8.3 / -3.4 / -2.7 = -3.9)
[URL="http://www.pokemon.com/us/organized-play/tournaments/15943/"]Florida [/URL]50 / 63 / 131 = 244 (65/66/135=266) (-23.1 / -4.5 / -3.0 = -8.3)
[URL="http://www.pokemon.com/us/organized-play/tournaments/16003/"]Mid-Atlantic [/URL]24 / 42 / 100 = 166 (29/44/119=192) (-17.2 / -4.5 / -16.0 = -13.5)
[URL="http://www.pokemon.com/us/organized-play/tournaments/15981/"]Mississippi Valley [/URL]45 / 73 / 117 = 235 (71/65/145=281) (-36.6 / 12.3 / -19.3 = -16.4)
[URL="http://www.pokemon.com/us/organized-play/tournaments/15892/"]North West [/URL]60 / 69 / 172 = 301 (100/85/179=364) (-40 / -18.8 / -3.9 = -17.3)
[URL="http://www.pokemon.com/us/organized-play/tournaments/15917/"]New England [/URL]27 / 44 / 75 = 146 (38/47/94=179) (-28.9 / -6.4 / -20.2 = -18.4)
[URL="http://www.pokemon.com/us/organized-play/tournaments/15997/"]Southern Plains [/URL]69 / 70 / 166 = 305 (121/96/159=376) (-43.0 / -27.1 / 4.4 = -18.9)
[URL="http://www.pokemon.com/us/organized-play/tournaments/16017/"]West Canada [/URL]15 / 28 / 50 = 93 (31/28/62=121) (-51.6 / 0 / -19.4 = -23.1)note the figures for juniors and seniors. Only one of the junior's events manages A T16 cut and 7 rounds. Even for the seniors that only rises to three events. It is hard to arque that 6 rounds and a T8 cut requires a two day event.
Note my quote...I care less about the number of rounds, it is ending time that matters, that is all. If organizers can get nine rounds done with meals before nine PM then by all means a one day event works. At nine o'clock it is time to leave for younger kids.
I don't care if it is just two kids left playing at 9pm. It is too late, they have been excited all day and up early. It is not the time for them to be entering a game that really matters that's for sure. Let them take a break, yes for the night.
Again though, if you can get every (and I mean every) Junior out of there before 9pm and Seniors out by 11pm, then by all means a one day event works, maybe not optimal, but it works. Otherwise change the schedules.
And I CAN argue for a two day event in lieu of a single day that ends at 9pm. I STILL need to spend the night, You think i want to end at nine, leave by ten and then a four hour plus drive home? My normal day starts at 6, if I drove to regionals that day, my day started at 4. I am not a 20-year old, those days just don't happen any more. You really want me on the road after sleeping for four hours, then being up for 22 hours? THAT is what you are arguing for! So, with events ending at or after nine PM, I can (and will) argue for two-day events.
Benzo
Front Page News Editor<br>Forum Moderator
@ Prodig- Here in the NW- we have had successful turn-out numbers of players signed up for the DS side events.
We had 76 players sign up, and 78 players again at the following large event.
DS player attendence is slowly on the climb, and yes- where there is larger fan base the numbers are bigger vs smaller locations.
As far as "mixing" goes- the TCG players also play the DS. Why not cater to both gamer sides?
We had 76 players sign up, and 78 players again at the following large event.
DS player attendence is slowly on the climb, and yes- where there is larger fan base the numbers are bigger vs smaller locations.
As far as "mixing" goes- the TCG players also play the DS. Why not cater to both gamer sides?
Last edited:
NoPoke
Active Member
If I wanted to attend the SoCal regional my travel time would be around 20 hours there and 20 hours back. That isn't an arguement or justification for a two day event. I am not arguing that you should get little sleep and then travel for many hours followed by a long day and then more travel. If that is what you face then I'd suggest you stay overnight. I would say that your particular needs should not be forced on every other player. It is no surprise that I wont be at the SoCal regional.
Look at the junior figures more closely: the average is 37 players: there is just no way that justifies a two day event.
This is a tricky issue with no obvious solution because it is clear that a two day event would be bad for the many younger players who can currently complete the event comfortably in a single day. Bad in the sense that they may not be able to attend a two day event because parents may be unable to commit to the overnight stay. It is tricky because the masters attendance is so very large at a small number of events.
By posting the figures I was not trying to minimise or belittle your opinions but to highlight the current position vis-a-vis attendance.
Look at the junior figures more closely: the average is 37 players: there is just no way that justifies a two day event.
This is a tricky issue with no obvious solution because it is clear that a two day event would be bad for the many younger players who can currently complete the event comfortably in a single day. Bad in the sense that they may not be able to attend a two day event because parents may be unable to commit to the overnight stay. It is tricky because the masters attendance is so very large at a small number of events.
By posting the figures I was not trying to minimise or belittle your opinions but to highlight the current position vis-a-vis attendance.
And I fully agree, where regionals are smaller, keep them one day. I would never suggest stretching to two days an event that can easily be completed in one. I am trying to get across that regionals that last forever be stretched to two days. Nats was changed from two days to three for that reason.
Due to geography, I would say that most people have to travel more than two hours to get to a regional and that must be taken in to account when scheduling. I would actually estimate that my 3-5 hour drive is "normal" not an exception.
Personally, I will go to a regional whether it be one day or two. A one day event means I spend two nights most likely, a two day event that starts later day one and ends early day two means I only spend on night. I could always drive back after missing top-cut, but everyone plans on making top-cut.
Due to geography, I would say that most people have to travel more than two hours to get to a regional and that must be taken in to account when scheduling. I would actually estimate that my 3-5 hour drive is "normal" not an exception.
Personally, I will go to a regional whether it be one day or two. A one day event means I spend two nights most likely, a two day event that starts later day one and ends early day two means I only spend on night. I could always drive back after missing top-cut, but everyone plans on making top-cut.
jeffrey123
New Member
Figure this.
You spend $500 to travel to play in a Worlds/Nationals
You get donked twice.
You spend $500 to travel to play in a Worlds/Nationals
You get donked twice.
Cyrus
Iron Chef - Master Emeritus
No, he's not arguing for that - what he's arguing for (if you can call it an argument rather than a set of facts) lends itself to people just making the decisions that best suit them. You have the choice to go to the event, as well as the choice to do what you think is most responsible.
Even if Regionals was a one day event, it seems like the smart choice for you would be to stay in the hotel. That choice isn't dependent on whether or not sixteen masters stick around another day for finals.
I may only have one semester left, but I'm still a college student, and as a college student, I'm not thrilled with the prospect of staying an extra night in lieu of just toughing it out for a while. However, if the overwhelming majority of players really do want to take this step forward, then I'll happily go along with it.
Last edited:
You could tier it with free for Juniors, a few bucks for Seniors and more for Masters. What could you do to enhance a Regionals with an extra $2000 to play with? Danish and Coffee in the morning? Some kind of buffet lunch? Additional prize support? Maybe actually pay your judges something? Organized chess is all pay to play and the quality of the tournament experience is much better than Pokemon despite the complete lack of any kind of "corporate" support.
Swordfish1989
New Member
The quality of most things increase when you add an ' admission ticket ' to it. I've played other TCGs where there was an entry fee for playing and everything ran very smoothly and on time. Money has a magical way of making things more serious and to work better since people are more accountable for their actions (players and judges).
And the prizes are better
And the prizes are better
I wouldn't be completely against making entry fees $5 for tourneys, but I could see this alienating A LOT of players, especially the ones who go to tournaments without "winning" as their primary goal(s)
- Status