Issues Facing the TCG
- Thread starter Ness
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Prof Clay
New Member
I agree...we really should be able to start events earlier than noon...8 am, as much as I hate getting up early, to begin registration at a regional should be do-able...If we have access to the venue then starting early should not be a problem. Nats starts very early showing that even the most active night owl teens can still manage to get to the event on time.
Top Cut Comics
Member
Definately not...
We gain no additional time because of the 30+3 rule. It easily takes just as long as the prior 40 minute rounds. The biggest difference I am noticing is that the rounds are now more consistant in length. No more 40 minutes and then 5-20 minutes of next prize wins.
Starting earlier is a way to make it seem like the tournament is shorter. Even if it is the same length as previous years.
Jimmy
This is a very bad idea. I can not even get my League players (OK, parents) to sign up for a FREE ID, much less have to pay 10 bucks. Charge for tournaments, fine, but just for the POP ID number? No way, No How!
And regarding insanely late night events, I hate them! You think players are bad after 14+ hours? What about judges and staff? Make them two days, with top cut a second day. The size of the venue can shrink considerably for day two. Did anyone notice National's room size was about a third of it's size for the last day? And they still had a TON of open space, even with the League play there along with top cuts.
But, the better idea is start early! 8am registration, 9am start time. Pre-registration anyone?
Top Cut Comics
Member
Pre-registration is a terrible idea. In my experience, it only slows down the start of a tournament. Waiting for people who pre-registered, keying them in, then back out, locationg them for a deck list, who knows, maybe they didnt even show up.... These are just some of the issues facing per-reg.
I tried a pre-reg at 1 of my event. I will never, ever do it again. If the player is in the venue, they can sign up and play like everyone else. This also keep the playing field level for all players.
Jimmy
bullados
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?
Agreed here. I'll only do Preregistration for Prereleases, but that's for reasons completely unrelated to smooth tournament function. For my Constructed events, first come first serve, regardless of my venue restrictions.
Benzo
Front Page News Editor<br>Forum Moderator
not saying that you would have to pay to get an ID. #.
I am saying that those players who have been around or plan to be around for a while can and prolly will pay the fee because it is a hobby or an activity that they plan to be involved in for more then just a one time thing.
True, there are poeple who come and check it out. And then they never touch a card again.
But the same applies to everything else in the world when it comes to activities and hobbies.
If you had a membership to go into Disneyland that every day of the year, you get 1 free meal at Mickey's snack shack-
would you be able to go EVERY day?
I pay for the internet service- I am not on the net 24/7.
What I mean by "Active"- is that for 1 year- you help contribute to the growth and expansion by choice. If the players want to continue to complain that the venue location is too small and croweded, they should ask themseleves " Did I contribute a small fee to improve?".
Sure- players come and go. But alot of players have been around for a long time, and all we the "old fogies" see is more and more growth and a need for improvement.
I am saying that those players who have been around or plan to be around for a while can and prolly will pay the fee because it is a hobby or an activity that they plan to be involved in for more then just a one time thing.
True, there are poeple who come and check it out. And then they never touch a card again.
But the same applies to everything else in the world when it comes to activities and hobbies.
If you had a membership to go into Disneyland that every day of the year, you get 1 free meal at Mickey's snack shack-
would you be able to go EVERY day?
I pay for the internet service- I am not on the net 24/7.
What I mean by "Active"- is that for 1 year- you help contribute to the growth and expansion by choice. If the players want to continue to complain that the venue location is too small and croweded, they should ask themseleves " Did I contribute a small fee to improve?".
Sure- players come and go. But alot of players have been around for a long time, and all we the "old fogies" see is more and more growth and a need for improvement.
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Ness
Member
I'm going to use some very simple logic and some common sense to further explain the need for two day Regionals for those of you who think starting them at 8 AM is a better alternative.
Regionals draw players from all over. It isn't a local tournament like a City Championship. There are people with 4+ hour drives. That means 8 AM Registration requires these players to do one of two things:
1) Wake up between 3-6 AM (depending where they live) and begin their drive to begin playing a 12-hour tournament.
2) Drive to the venue Friday night and get a hotel.
Option 1 should be a no brainer. No one wants to do that and it will ultimately make for a much less enjoyable tournament experience. Option 2 is silly because staying the first night is not necessary in most cases with a two day Regionals since the Regional could around noon. So instead of staying Friday night, those remotely close to the tournament could simply drive Saturday morning, and stay Saturday night, with the tournament ending early enough on Saturday for everyone to drive home Saturday night. Ta-duh.
Regionals draw players from all over. It isn't a local tournament like a City Championship. There are people with 4+ hour drives. That means 8 AM Registration requires these players to do one of two things:
1) Wake up between 3-6 AM (depending where they live) and begin their drive to begin playing a 12-hour tournament.
2) Drive to the venue Friday night and get a hotel.
Option 1 should be a no brainer. No one wants to do that and it will ultimately make for a much less enjoyable tournament experience. Option 2 is silly because staying the first night is not necessary in most cases with a two day Regionals since the Regional could around noon. So instead of staying Friday night, those remotely close to the tournament could simply drive Saturday morning, and stay Saturday night, with the tournament ending early enough on Saturday for everyone to drive home Saturday night. Ta-duh.
Or they could leave Friday night, stay at a hotel near the tournament, and be ready to go and really well rested. Plus a traffic accident 2 hours into your drive wouldnt make you late for your tournament/ruining your experience. Then you play in said saturday tournament and whenever you finish you go come and avoid having to stay for 2 nights just as you pointed out in your scenario. However, in your scenario, whoever man'd up and drove those 4 hours to get there at 10am for registration is gonna be butt tired the whole tournament (and probably do worse than in my scenario).
You may say "omg do you want people who stay midnight or later potentially crash on their way home cause its late?!?" but realistically this is only a problem for the people who top-cut, and even then, it would only effect like the top4 or top 2. Those players who do really well can eat the extra expense and stay an extra night if they dont think they're able to drive home after midnight. I mean, they probably just won a box of pokemon cards/scholrships so its not like said player is going broke.
With two day regionals, I would pretty much always have to stay 2 nights at a hotel if I wanted to put myself in a position to do really well.
I'd much rather stay the night before at a tourney and be really well rested and at my potential to do my best than drive there in the morning the day of a tournament. As a matter of fact, i'm doing (staying the night before) it this weekend!
bullados
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?
Jason, when would you want the tournament to start, then? Remember: US Nationals started all 3 days at 9am. The staff were pretty much all in place by 7am, if not earlier. Pretty much any time that you start Regionals, you'd have people having to decide between staying overnight on the day before, or waking up insanely early for the drive, especially outside of the (general) North East areas. I have a 3 hour drive to two equidistant Regionals, and a 4.5 hour drive to a third. I'm certain that some on the West Coast and Mountain West areas would consider that a short drive. I don't know about anybody else, but I don't want to have to drive 3+ hours and then have to play/Staff a tournament for the next 6+ hours. I'll take my time on Friday, stay in a hotel overnight, and then wake up at a reasonable hour with enough time for breakfast and a nice shower before the tournament starts.
All the current 1 day regionals I have been to are part of 3 days. The nearest regional to me has been a 7 hour (legally) drive. So my first day is driving most of the way there, if not all the way there.
Then the 2nd day is the tournament itself. Since I'm staffing I have to be there early and stay late. Doesn't matter the time I get out, it's already been a 16+ hour day for me and others with me so far. I'm not about to drive back home that night as well, so it's a night at the motel, then the rest of the way home on the 3rd day.
Turning it into a 2 day event might turn that into a trip over 4 days or a longer 3 days.
Then the 2nd day is the tournament itself. Since I'm staffing I have to be there early and stay late. Doesn't matter the time I get out, it's already been a 16+ hour day for me and others with me so far. I'm not about to drive back home that night as well, so it's a night at the motel, then the rest of the way home on the 3rd day.
Turning it into a 2 day event might turn that into a trip over 4 days or a longer 3 days.
I think paying for a POP ID would only work if it were a completely optional thing, and you got some kind of reward for it. Maybe a alternate art/alternate foil/stamped promo card? Right now, I'd be willing to pay $10/year for the guarantee that I'd get a neat version of a useful card, without a doubt.
You absolutely cannot, imo, make it mandatory to pay a fee, though. That would be a death sentence for the game.
You absolutely cannot, imo, make it mandatory to pay a fee, though. That would be a death sentence for the game.
QFT! I'd say half of the staff at every regional does this. To make the event go over to sunday to finish may just add a 4th day to the staff member's trip. Remember, we do this on the side. We have REAL JOBS to work through the week. We only get so many vacation days a year. We have to use them wisely.
Vince (Meg45) and I are both lawyers. I recall when Nats was in St Louis (Vince's homebase) and he was HJ for MAs, he still had to make calls to the office on Thursday and maybe even friday. Heck, I got a call from the office while I was in Hawaii last year, addressing a problem. Real life gets is the way sometimes. I prefer an early start (staff are there already anyway), then the folks can stay or leave for topcuts. Most top cuts at a Reg's will start around dinner time. A good time for a short break for food while staff does deck checks. The younger age groups are usually well into top cuts bc they are usually 1-2 rds less than the MAs and we keep them moving.
Keith
Benzo
Front Page News Editor<br>Forum Moderator
Players willing to pay an annual membership fee could have some extra rewards for being a member as long as the rewards are with in a good ratio pay-out to the annual fee.
Say a $10 membership annual fee, with a $2 "return"value through out the year in special printed cards that if you display your membership card at events, you get the card. This is just an idea. As with all ideas, it needs to be worked out in detail and see if the idea is even feesable for ALL parties involved: in this case: TCPi, PTO's, and the Players.
How do issues get resolved if ideas are shot down because there is not a 100% "in favor" vote to even collaborate some of these ideas?
Say a $10 membership annual fee, with a $2 "return"value through out the year in special printed cards that if you display your membership card at events, you get the card. This is just an idea. As with all ideas, it needs to be worked out in detail and see if the idea is even feesable for ALL parties involved: in this case: TCPi, PTO's, and the Players.
How do issues get resolved if ideas are shot down because there is not a 100% "in favor" vote to even collaborate some of these ideas?
@Lawman: Although I think that the needs of the staff definitely needs to be taken into consideration and I understand that it's a very valid issue, couldn't most of the staff be able to go home after Day 1, as theoretically, only the top cut would take place on Day 2, therefore requiring less judges/staff, etc? I know that's not a sure fire fix and some people will still have trouble, but I think it's something to consider.
@Benzo: Word, I get what you're saying. I could even see membership being something like...become a $10/year member, and gain the ability to pre-register for tournaments, or other intangible benefits for that. I'm willing to bet that sticking with a single, or a playset of foil/alternate art promo cards would get more than enough people to sign-up, though.
@Benzo: Word, I get what you're saying. I could even see membership being something like...become a $10/year member, and gain the ability to pre-register for tournaments, or other intangible benefits for that. I'm willing to bet that sticking with a single, or a playset of foil/alternate art promo cards would get more than enough people to sign-up, though.
DragonairMaster8
Active Member
JUST GIVE US HGSS-ON
ugh
IT would fix everything....
ugh
IT would fix everything....
yep, really a 2 day regionals is a bad idea for a few reasons. This is a really good one as so many people do travel long distances to get to them. Only those who have no real job or school can do a 2 day regional. Or those who live in the city they are held at.
I don't get how starting early solves much. Everyone (staff included) admits the day can go on 14 - 16+ hours. If the event starts at 8 AM, 10 AM, or 12 PM, it will still run 14+ hours. That can make for a long day any way you look at it. Staff will have even longer days, getting there early and staying late.
Yes, but Nationals goes on for 3 days and the staff still manages to get time off from work/etc in order to help there. Why not Regionals? Yes, there's only so many vacations in a year, but maybe the people who serve at Regionals won't be able to do Nationals too. If Regionals is allowed to go on for 2 days, serving as a staff member may be just as rewarding as serving at Nats. (I mean no disrespect towards the Judges, I appreciate the time and effort they put forth)
On the other hand, I'm not very familiar with the staffing at these events, is it ever lacking? It may be a bigger problem if Regionals does turn into a 2 day event.
Yes, but Nationals goes on for 3 days and the staff still manages to get time off from work/etc in order to help there. Why not Regionals? Yes, there's only so many vacations in a year, but maybe the people who serve at Regionals won't be able to do Nationals too. If Regionals is allowed to go on for 2 days, serving as a staff member may be just as rewarding as serving at Nats. (I mean no disrespect towards the Judges, I appreciate the time and effort they put forth)
On the other hand, I'm not very familiar with the staffing at these events, is it ever lacking? It may be a bigger problem if Regionals does turn into a 2 day event.
ChaosJim
Member
Day 2 Staff is smaller. Another reason compensation doesn't directly double.
If people are traveling 7 hours or more for Regionals, should we have an additional one? I know I've got it easy having to drive 30 minutes - 2 hours to get to my regionals depending on the year, but 7 hours is super crazy. People who are driving 7 hours: do you have a state championship in your state? How many people normally attend?
I'll reach out to some Magic judges I know, but if another game can have 18 grand prix events in a year, each at 2 days, and 4 3-day weekend events on top of that (Pro Tour events), and manage to have staff for those, I don't think the difficulty is insurmountable. Could this all be a money issue? Yes, maybe.
TPCi has ways in which they can literally print money that people would thank them for, maybe improving OP would be a great source for that money. Maybe the people working for Play Pokémon who would like to do this realize if they printed such money they wouldn't get to keep it. Tough to say, especially without going off topic.
If people are traveling 7 hours or more for Regionals, should we have an additional one? I know I've got it easy having to drive 30 minutes - 2 hours to get to my regionals depending on the year, but 7 hours is super crazy. People who are driving 7 hours: do you have a state championship in your state? How many people normally attend?
I'll reach out to some Magic judges I know, but if another game can have 18 grand prix events in a year, each at 2 days, and 4 3-day weekend events on top of that (Pro Tour events), and manage to have staff for those, I don't think the difficulty is insurmountable. Could this all be a money issue? Yes, maybe.
TPCi has ways in which they can literally print money that people would thank them for, maybe improving OP would be a great source for that money. Maybe the people working for Play Pokémon who would like to do this realize if they printed such money they wouldn't get to keep it. Tough to say, especially without going off topic.
Nearest regionals from Southern Nevada is in California which is abot 5.5 hours depending on traffic (and how fast you speed, lol). Yes we have a states, last year we had 120+ entrants, about 90 of which were from California
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