Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Charizard After Rotation

eriknance

Active Member
Assuming P!P makes the mistake next year of giving us at least an AR-on format, has anyone considered how powerful Charizard decks may become? Think right quick about the advantages it will have over most other decks in the format:

:fire: Charizard will be one of the few decks in the format to have any sort of setup Pokemon as a partner (that card being HGSS Ninetails). Other decks will have to struggle to get set up or rely on flimsy first-turn heavy damage outputs (like Zekrom).

:fire: Charizard can hit for up to 100 with a single Energy since Expert Belt will still be around. Compare this to all those new Black and White Pokemon who do 60-80 for 3 Energy. When Charizard gets 3 Energy (which is easy because of Typhlosion Prime), it'll start doing between 80 and 150 damage, putting it comfortably in that OHKO range.

:fire: You might be thinking, "Why not just run Reshiram?" Well, Charizard's modified weakness gives you a good reason. Only water Pokemon capable of hitting for 110 will be viable counters against Charizard.

:fire: Since Charizard decks will work off Poke-Powers and Poke-Bodies, it's unlikely that the card creators would create anything to counter those cards (since "Abilities" will be the name of the game).

:fire: With Spiritomb still hanging around, Charizard can put a lock on you turn 1, giving them time to set up before you can even whisper the word "Catcher" (when it's eventually released).

I definitely see a viable counter in the Oshawatt evolution, but where's the setup Pokemon for that deck? It will essentially lose simply because it can't get its Pokemon in play. Of course, I see this as a good reason to transition into an HGSS-on format rather than fooling around with anything else.

Thoughts?
 
Of course, I see this as a good reason to transition into an HGSS-on format rather than fooling around with anything else.

You answered your own question IMO. Reading this gave me three or four insights into why the format is likely to be at least GS-on [the only really usable cards in that format can function with the ability rule change].
 
Jumpluff also has its own (search) engine in sunflora, HS on. It also has a resistance to donphan (like 'zard), and can hit heavy for 1 energy (like 'zard). It does have weakness to charzard, and metapod probably won't help if you're hitting for 100 anyway. However, I believe that sunflora gives jumpluff a much better recovery rate than ninetails gives to charzard.

They both have their ups and downs, and it would be interesting to see a charzard vs. jumpluff showdown (you can't say that 'zard will always win that one). A correctly built pluff will have one out every turn, but zard may not be able to. But then again, zard can take a hit, and you don't need one every turn.

I can't wait for a rotation of any kind! As long as platinum is taken out!
 
Umbreon UD shuts down Charizard completely, every attacker in Charizard (Ninetales, Typhlosion and Charizard) has a power or body. You could also use Blastgatr if charizard becomes really big. However there are still two sets yet to be released so it is hard to say for sure how good Charizard will really be in relation to other decks. I know this wasnt really what you asked but I still think it is a valid point.
 
It's pretty scary to think about, actually. Because Charizard could also use Gust of Wind, could use Spiritomb to set up, and it does have that nice little addition in Ninetales. It'll be a force if TPCi allows the format to be anything outside of HGSS-on.

It'll be hard to run anything that's water since they lack the support. Not impossible, but fairly difficult without some support along side it. They may have Spiritomb, but so does Charizard. And, it's got only +30 weakness. Frightening. Feraligatr might be able to take it, since it has the ability to at least run Magnezone...but, that's two stage two pokemon, which, without Uxie, will be really hard to set up. Even with Spiritomb. Plus, Feraligatr won't one shot Charizard...but Charizard has the potential to take out Feraligatr in one shot.

Please, TPCi, just give us HGSS-on. :(
 
I think your Ninetails point, along with Typhlosion and Emboar (two ways of energy acceleration) makes a larger point than anything else.

Even in a HGSS-on format, what other energy type of pokemon has a great poke-power draw and two forms of energy acceleration, both that can be used every single turn?

I can see the weakness issue too. Kingdra Prime, my first thought, is neutered against Fire decks sadly, either way, you're right about the 30+ being much better than 2x (in some cases, for damage >30).
 
Interesting choice. I do believe once a Charizard is active it is going to be a tough time getting him out of there, he hits hard, and has a lot of support.

However if you don't play tomb as a starter I feel that Arceus, which will be the BDIF after rotation in my opinion, out paces it and has the advantage of knocking off your important benched pokes as well as fire pokemon that may aid your damage. Also, if the format is RR-on then Lucario GL will help to even up the playing field immensely.

Umbreon can slow you down until the opposing deck has an out or you KO it with charmeleon.

Also with the errata on candy stage 2 decks are going to lose a bit of their thunder. I really feel like next format is going to be all about speed and getting quick knock outs. With GoW reprinted it is going to be really hard to get stage 2 decks fully set up in time without being disrupted.
 
How does Umbreon stop anything with Gust of Wind in the format?
 
Umbreon UD shuts down Charizard completely, every attacker in Charizard (Ninetales, Typhlosion and Charizard) has a power or body.

Charmeleon + :colorless::colorless: +:fire: = 2HKO Umbreon UD

Whoops, there goes Umbreon in two hits



haha didn't see above post
 
If charizard gets too nasty, i can see people using parichisu with lanturn prime in electric decks. Turn water type for the turn, hit for a crazy amount of damage.
 
*sigh*

Charizard will never be good. It has been hyped, albeit small, almost every set, rotation, announcement, etc. and I think it will just never work.

It was hyped when AR came out
It was hyped when HGSS came out
It was hyped when Luxpluff was BDIF

etc.

Charizard is just never going to be good. I'm sorry...it's the truth.
 
*sigh*

Charizard will never be good. It has been hyped, albeit small, almost every set, rotation, announcement, etc. and I think it will just never work.

It was hyped when AR came out
It was hyped when HGSS came out
It was hyped when Luxpluff was BDIF

etc.

Charizard is just never going to be good. I'm sorry...it's the truth.

I can safely assume its at LEAST as good as Beedrill G...

Though honestly, you did answer your own question in the first post...The best thing for the game next year is going to be a HGSS-on meta...
 
The lack of BTS and the nerf of Rare Candy will hurt Zard a bit. Charizard can be prone to bad starts and without Uxie to help on those starts and Bebe's possibly out of format, getting the required basics out and evolving them in a timely fashion could prove difficult.
 
*sigh*

Charizard will never be good. It has been hyped, albeit small, almost every set, rotation, announcement, etc. and I think it will just never work.

It was hyped when AR came out
It was hyped when HGSS came out
It was hyped when Luxpluff was BDIF

etc.

Charizard is just never going to be good. I'm sorry...it's the truth.

Porii, I have a glass trophy on my bookshelf that says otherwise. Here's some homework for you: 2010 States Report with Charizard.

If we get an AR-on format next season, Charizard will have an incredibly easy time setting up with Ninetails. This in a format where setup Pokemon just don't exist (other than perhaps Magnezone, but only in Magnezone decks). I'm not trying to hype Charizard up by any means, but I am showing where it has a few obvious advantages in such a format.

---------- Post added 04/06/2011 at 12:47 AM ----------

The lack of BTS and the nerf of Rare Candy will hurt Zard a bit. Charizard can be prone to bad starts and without Uxie to help on those starts and Bebe's possibly out of format, getting the required basics out and evolving them in a timely fashion could prove difficult.

Wouldn't this be the case for all decks though? Granted, Zekrom speed decks may be floating around here or there, but they have to have a pretty good start to get that first turn KO off. I see most decks stalling mid to late-game, which is where Ninetails would shine. The Rare Candy bit does hurt a little, but setup with Spiritomb would be the norm anyway.
 
Charmeleon 2HKOs it with little to no set up(assuming Typhlosion)

Charmeleon + + = 2HKO Umbreon UD

Whoops, there goes Umbreon in two hits

An umbreon player would not just let it die, with an expert belt it takes three hits to KO, also there are ways of healing umbreon such as that new trainer that will be in next format and blissey prime.

Plus if the Umbreon player is playing it right the charmeleon should be KO before it gets a chance to KO umbreon.
 
An umbreon player would not just let it die, with an expert belt it takes three hits to KO, also there are ways of healing umbreon such as that new trainer that will be in next format and blissey prime.

Plus if the Umbreon player is playing it right the charmeleon should be KO before it gets a chance to KO umbreon.

Well gosh, if Umbreon/Blissey/Vileplume decks are going to be used to counter Charizard, I'll just play me some fighting Arceus and a Rainbow or two. We can play the counter game all day long. :thumb:
 
Gotta be careful about them techs, bros... for every tech you theorymon into existence your credibility decreases exponentially...
 
Well gosh, if Umbreon/Blissey/Vileplume decks are going to be used to counter Charizard, I'll just play me some fighting Arceus and a Rainbow or two. We can play the counter game all day long.

I am just saying that if Charizard were to become a strong deck, umbreon would certainly be able to slow it down and could be teched into decks.
 
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