Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Charizard After Rotation

eriknance said:
Tell you what Tagrineth, you give me an AR-on Samurott list and I'll put it to the test and post results here. I'll even record the matchups if I get a chance. By the way, this isn't an "I told you so" thing, as I'm genuinely interested in how decks not using Ninetails will set up sufficiently in the AR-on format. Also, consider the lack of Lucario GL a tradeoff for the fact that Samurott will have a ton of difficulty against Zekrom speed decks.
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Why should I provide you with any Samurott deck list? It's not complicated at all. Besides, you're the one that brought Samurott up in the first place. Your whole point was some asinine BS about how Samurott apparently won't be able to set up a single Samurott before Charizard can get out multiple Charizards with a full bench of Fire-type pokemon (and probably also an Expert Belt) all because of Spiritomb, while downplaying the very notion that Samurott decks could play Spiritomb to set up just as fast...

I wasn't saying Samurott would be any good in the metagame or anything like that. Was basically just pointing out your godawful excuse for logic.
 
Tagrineth said:
before Charizard can get out multiple Charizards with a full bench of Fire-type pokemon (and probably also an Expert Belt) all because of Spiritomb
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It's not just spiritomb. It is spiritomb and ninetales. One darkness grace gives you four cards a turn instead of one. This allows Charizard to set up sooner than Samurott and it gives it a much better mid to late game abilities from its consistent draw. I also think he meant that after he kills one or two samurott the charizard player will be able to overtake the Samurott player because it has the consistent draw.
 
Tagrineth said:
Why should I provide you with any Samurott deck list? It's not complicated at all. Besides, you're the one that brought Samurott up in the first place. Your whole point was some asinine BS about how Samurott apparently won't be able to set up a single Samurott before Charizard can get out multiple Charizards with a full bench of Fire-type pokemon (and probably also an Expert Belt) all because of Spiritomb, while downplaying the very notion that Samurott decks could play Spiritomb to set up just as fast...

I wasn't saying Samurott would be any good in the metagame or anything like that. Was basically just pointing out your godawful excuse for logic.
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First of all, I think we can discuss this without being downright rude. Like I said in my previous post, I wasn't trying to be cocky, just intrigued with the notion that Samurott can set up as well as Charizard without Ninetails.

Second, you must not have read my original post since my very first point was this:

Charizard will be one of the few decks in the format to have any sort of setup Pokemon as a partner (that card being HGSS Ninetails).
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That was my very first point! Not "all because of Spiritomb," but all because of Ninetails. Most decks cannot operate at all with a Ninetails engine since it generally requires a 2-2 or 3-3 line and at least 11 Fire Energy (any less and you miss drawing into more Fire Energy for Ninetails on subsequent turns).

Third, I'll come up with a Samurott list. I was just coming up with a friendly challenge, so there's no need to get upset.
 
eriknance said:
First of all, I think we can discuss this without being downright rude. Like I said in my previous post, I wasn't trying to be cocky, just intrigued with the notion that Samurott can set up as well as Charizard without Ninetails.

Second, you must not have read my original post since my very first point was this:



That was my very first point! Not "all because of Spiritomb," but all because of Ninetails. Most decks cannot operate at all with a Ninetails engine since it generally requires a 2-2 or 3-3 line and at least 11 Fire Energy (any less and you miss drawing into more Fire Energy for Ninetails on subsequent turns).

Third, I'll come up with a Samurott list. I was just coming up with a friendly challenge, so there's no need to get upset.
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LOL first off your post at his was REALLY rude, and second i agree with him your just saying charizard is GOING to start off perfectly everytime i play charizard and aside from spiritomb and blazikin FB it has NO starters and with the rare candy nerf its going to be kinda slow it runs two stage 2's and relies on a stage1 to draw. that takes some time to set up just in evolutions and in a AR on format spiritomb will be over played so the advantage goes both ways, emboar is a great card BUT its not for this deck thats a whole diff strat, And dont forget what makes charizard so strong is :fire: on the bench and well if you load up with spiritombs and other crap he becomes not so strong :) what about donphan prime? lol magnazone prime?? lostgar? with all those stage 2s in the hand lostgar will have a blast tossing my poor pokes into the oblivion :nonono: i think charizard will be good he just may be able to win if your not ready for him BUT to say he will be BDIF is hyping. i think we will get good draw with prof Jun and the crew :) thanks for reading not tryin to come off rude just interested in the subject is all I LOVE CHARIZARD!!!! haha
 
^ Rude?

eriknance said:
Lucario GL does have the potential to hurt Charizard, but only if you can setuo the water threat. See above concerning Spiritomb (though I will concede that Samurott can actually survive a hit from Charizard and can OHKO it back if you manage to get it all in play).
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You mean that post?
Or...

eriknance said:
Tell you what Tagrineth, you give me an AR-on Samurott list and I'll put it to the test and post results here. I'll even record the matchups if I get a chance. By the way, this isn't an "I told you so" thing, as I'm genuinely interested in how decks not using Ninetails will set up sufficiently in the AR-on format. Also, consider the lack of Lucario GL a tradeoff for the fact that Samurott will have a ton of difficulty against Zekrom speed decks.
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That one?

I fail to see rudeness anywhere. Nance is one of the most level-headed people I have ever seen. =\
 
He's not saying Charizard will be the BDIF, guys. He's saying there's a decent chance it will become a force in an RR-on or AR-on meta. Which it probably will. It will have massive HP, the best draw support in the game, and powerful, cheap attacking. That's generally what makes a winning combination.

Dosle, if you're playing it with Blaziken FB, that's problem #1.
 
Dosle said:
LOL first off your post at his was REALLY rude, and second i agree with him your just saying charizard is GOING to start off perfectly everytime i play charizard and aside from spiritomb and blazikin FB it has NO starters and with the rare candy nerf its going to be kinda slow it runs two stage 2's and relies on a stage1 to draw. that takes some time to set up just in evolutions and in a AR on format spiritomb will be over played so the advantage goes both ways, emboar is a great card BUT its not for this deck thats a whole diff strat, And dont forget what makes charizard so strong is :fire: on the bench and well if you load up with spiritombs and other crap he becomes not so strong :) what about donphan prime? lol magnazone prime?? lostgar? with all those stage 2s in the hand lostgar will have a blast tossing my poor pokes into the oblivion :nonono: i think charizard will be good he just may be able to win if your not ready for him BUT to say he will be BDIF is hyping. i think we will get good draw with prof Jun and the crew :) thanks for reading not tryin to come off rude just interested in the subject is all I LOVE CHARIZARD!!!! haha
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Okay how was that post rude at all??? You're the one flaming people. And spiritomb won't really clog the bench. Most likely it will get knocked out. Not a huge deal.
 
Yeah, Erik hasn't been rude to anyone in this thread. Yes, I'm biased.

I'm just wondering, when it comes to the most effectiveness, is HGSS Sunflora better for Grass decks than Ninetails is for Fire decks.

Sunflora:

  • Doesn't have to discard anything to use it's poke-power.
  • Isn't random, like drawing cards, and can search out exactly what you need (that is grass).
  • Has a resistance (water).
Ninetails:

  • It's use is consistently high all game, unlike Sunflora's that settles down after you've set everything up.
  • Does 20 more damage for the same energy as Sunflora.
  • Has a better basic (flip for burn or 20 w/ potential discard or heal 2)
  • Has +10HP, which is odd, which gives it an advantage when it comes to 2x weakness.
I was surprised to see I didn't have any Sunflora, so I'm going to order me three of them and start testing it out. A friend at the local league in my area is running them in her Jumpluff and is working rather well.

The downside of Sunflora not having anything to setup (mid-late game) may not be that large if decks focus less on saving pokemon (less healing) and more on recycling pokemon, which would allow Sunflora to allow heightened setup speed throughout the entire game.

With Ninetails, you have to worry about recycling the fire energy either with a stage 2 like Typhlosion or Emboar, with an attack, like the other HGSS Ninetails :thumb: or with a trainer or supporter like Fisherman. I would also think at a certain point, drawing 3 cards wouldn't be that useful, perhaps in risk of decking oneself.

Sunflora does nothing to help draw into energy, though. Or needed trainers/supporters.
 
FWIW I was able to easily set up Bellossom/Vileplume fairly quickly using only Sunflora, Spiritomb and other RR-on cards. I think I had 1 uxie for emergencies only.

I'd worry about grass-types vs Charizard though, just saying.
 
Not all grass pokemon are weak to fire, though. Yanmega and such are weak to lightning, and Vileplume and such are weak to psychic. Also HGSS gave us a Metapod that will remove the weakness on all grass pokemon. That's something Charizard won't be able to pack.

(I don't think it'll be anything other than HGSS-on though)
 
eriknance said:
First of all, I think we can discuss this without being downright rude. Like I said in my previous post, I wasn't trying to be cocky, just intrigued with the notion that Samurott can set up as well as Charizard without Ninetails.

Second, you must not have read my original post since my very first point was this:



That was my very first point! Not "all because of Spiritomb," but all because of Ninetails. Most decks cannot operate at all with a Ninetails engine since it generally requires a 2-2 or 3-3 line and at least 11 Fire Energy (any less and you miss drawing into more Fire Energy for Ninetails on subsequent turns).

Third, I'll come up with a Samurott list. I was just coming up with a friendly challenge, so there's no need to get upset.
Click to expand...

What I was originally saying though is that Samurott doesn't NEED to set up as much as Charizard does.

It really comes down to who pulls back their Spiritomb first. Samurott can calmly sit behind Spiritomb setting up as long as it wants while Ninetales slowly decks out. Charizard pretty much has to go offensive first, which means Samurott could revenge one Zard, weather a hit, and draw a second prize next turn. Plenty of time for another Samurott to be ready on the bench to revenge again, et al.
 
Basically, anything with an attack cost of 0-1 energy, it's own support, a cool body/power, high HP, or any comination of these will be beast in the next format--depending on what the BW2 set looks like and what rotates.

I would still vote using jumpluff or donphan over charizard, but it is definitely in the top 5.
 
If you're playing Charizard and are worried about Moonlight Fang, tech in Reshiram or possibly ERL (the latter's Detonation Spin OHKO's Umbreon).

- Croatian "c'mon, play with fire" Nidoking
 
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