Werewolf xvi the rise of team plasma: Town wins

[King Piplup]

Jason also seems to have disappeared.....Or is this normal?

Seems normal.


As for me, I have play testing to do and sleep to get for Regionals Top Cut tommorow, so I'm kinda busy...


Posted with Mobile style...

 

[JewelQuest]

Unvote:dave628
Vote: pokechampofpokebeach
Sheeping, bandwagoning, and refusing to take a solid stance. I still have my eye on Dave thought.
@people voting lilmagma: don't. He will be replaced, and lynching him is no better than a random lynch.
Posted with Mobile style...

Ah, good point

Unvote: Lil' Magma

 

[Arcanine/Arbok Master]

Votes to lynch : 16!

Vote count:

Diaz (2): sdrawkcab, Cantor
Sdrawkcab (1): Diaz
Dave628 (1): pokemonfreak5
Pmysterious (1): jellyfisher
PokeChampOfPokeBeach (2): jpulice, scottistru
Lil_Magma (1): DragonClyne725

Continue play!

 

[JewelQuest]

So, are we gonna decide who to lynch?

 

[Absoltrainer]

So, are we gonna decide who to lynch?

Who do YOU think we should lynch?

 

[JewelQuest]

Who do YOU think we should lynch?

Uh.....Good question?

I'm just trying to get the conversation back up and running....

 

[cabd]

446
Good question, Absoltrainer. Let me answer it.

It’s time people stopped sitting on the fence. We only have under two days left. We have several suspicious players already, but at the same time, nobody seems willing to commit en masse to a lynch target.

So I’ll follow my own advice. Vote: PokeChampOfPokeBeach

Reasoning as follows:

Though I agree that, all in all, PMysterious is probably the best candidate for the lynch at the moment. But I'm not going to just write off Diaz' play because he does the same thing every game. I agree with Cantor, he lied to us. Deceit isn't exactly a quality of the innocent.

I read this as “I want to point attention at this helpless new player but I’m afraid it’ll backfire so I won’t vote so I can save my butt later if it backfires. I’ll also slyly agree with some other targets so I look like I agreed no matter who ends up going.”

@ My accusers:

I stand by what I have said. I do not think there is anything wolfy about my posts at all, though I can see why you are concerned so I shall attempt to clarify. It was my belief at the time that PMysterious is a townie. His mistakes to me seem like the mistakes of Magneboar and FJM in previous games, which was Scottistru's point. While I did say those things and they're probably still relevant, it is my belief that he is a townie. Furthermore, I don't understand why I look suspicious to you. Please keep in mind, I haven't cast a single vote all game day. I think I have the right to change my opinion, don't I?

Furthermore, my posts DO NOT contradict each other, if you read them carefully. I will quote myself:



PMysterious is PROBABLY the best candidate for the lynch AT THE MOMENT. That is not overtly committal AT ALL, I do not even back it up with a vote, WHICH SIGNIFIES THAT I A NEVER FLIP-FLOPPED. I was never sold to begin with of PMysterious' wolfishness.



Again, I do not condemn him as a Werewolf nor do I cast a vote in an attempt to seal his fate. My only statement that I made was that he does not know what he is doing, which is true, he is a newer player and is getting grilled for making awful posts. Does that make him a Werewolf, I do not know.



And the final post which got me some controversy apparently, even though when you consider I never explicitly jumped on the bandwagon against PMysterious it really doesn't seem so bad to me (to me at least).

To summarize...

--I do NOT feel that PMysterious is a Werewolf. To me he seems like a townie with a nerve problem. His play resembles the play of Magneboar and FJM in other games and I do not buy that he is a Werewolf. Does that mean he is not one? Maybe, maybe not. He could be, for all I know. Which leads to my next point...

--Despite the fact he is probably a townie, are there any better leads? Is dave's play really condemning enough to consider voting him out at this stage? Is Diaz a viable vote? I do not think so. So point number three

--All things considered, despite my belief PMysterious is a townie, I do not think there is a better lead at this point of the game.

If you misunderstood me as advocating for PMysterious, I am not. I think he should probably be lynched off. It is my belief that he is a townie, but this is from personal experience and a mixture of gut feeling and not based on any evidence aside from Scottistru's IMO excellent post. If I missed anything, lmk. If I hit the nail on the head, then I kindly ask you to unvote me.

This post seems to be saying to me: “I still don’t want to commit to anything, I’d rather continuing to deflect attention.” You make all these points clearing dave and diaz from your vote list… and then say PM is still the best choice. But then you fail to vote anyways. You hit a nail indeed, but not the nail you were hoping for.

^ In my opinion I haven't acted weird. I was never completely convinced of PMysterious being a wolf in the first place. That's why I never voted. If I haven't voted for someone yet, everything is hypothetical. In my opinion, using the same logic, people who actually vote for a person and take it back are more suspicious than I. Ridiculous, you say? Well, so are the accusations against me! I don't see why I haven't even cast a vote and all of a sudden I'm supposed to "explain myself". I mean, really? I think I've played a completely rational game so far!

The one little thing I said that might be misconstrued as suspicious is that I said my read of him is complete townie. I don't know if this is what the big deal is all about. Let me clarify that my read of someone is based purely on the "feeling" I get from someone's playstyle. Scottistru made an excellent post about similar lynches in the past and I analyzed PMysterious' posts and decided I felt the same way. I mean, Scottistru said it, not me. Don't know why I'm taking the heat honestly.

Same goes to you Jewelquest. You say I've acted weird? Prove it. Tell me what I've done that isn't optimal. Because I don't see it, sorry. I mean, my accuser is limited to five lines per post. It's very hard to figure out what someone is accusing you for when they can't even fully formulate a though. :/ You however aren't affected by that restriction, so if you would please enlighten me as to where I went wrong, I would be most gracious.

So now we have an ad hominem attack upon jpulice, who has proven himself over past games to be a decent logician. We also have you using straw man arguments, to be precise, #3 from the list on wikipedia:

Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person's arguments — thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.

Where here “the” defender is jpulice, and therefore trying to weaken jewelquest’s rational argument(s).


I agree with jellyfisher’s Post #249:

I don't think dave628 is a wolf. Seriously, there are only two lynch candidates currently, and he is one of them. If he really were a wolf, why would he go so far to defend the other? I think that if he were a wolf, he would be trying to get PM lynched. The only reason defending PM would make sense if dave628 were a wolf, would be if PM was also a wolf.

So for now, I'm thinking that dave628 is probably not a wolf.

So with the majority seeing dave as less wolfish; and if we take PM to be naive townie, that leaves us two leads: Diaz and PCPB. Diaz, besides using his own special homebrew of RVS/RQS, has done nothing really wrong in my eyes. I kind of expected such a move from him out of the gate. Had Ulti not challenged me early, Diaz probably would have been the only one creating discourse. Therefore, I feel PCPB is a more solid lead, and therefore, he has earned my vote.

Thoughts?

~~~~~~

Aside from main post, thoughts elsewhere:

lil_magma is still red zoned. I’d like him to be replaced before we start drawing reads off of him.

I’m still waiting to hear from Benzo about the lie he found.

 

[DragonClyne725]

The Stark Mountain thing was pre-game. We sorta played spam-the-Werewolf-thread before the game started. I ended up on Stark Mountain, and he "saved me" from it exploding. We were messing around.

Ah, ok, that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up

Same goes to you Jewelquest. You say I've acted weird? Prove it. Tell me what I've done that isn't optimal. Because I don't see it, sorry. I mean, my accuser is limited to five lines per post. It's very hard to figure out what someone is accusing you for when they can't even fully formulate a though. :/ You however aren't affected by that restriction, so if you would please enlighten me as to where I went wrong, I would be most gracious.

Just because jpulice can only speak in 3's, doesn't mean he can't get his point across. You are under suspicion because first you say this:

Though I agree that, all in all, PMysterious is probably the best candidate for the lynch at the moment.

...and then you go and say this:

@ Scottistru: Good point, I gotta agree despite his lack of skill PMysterious does read complete townie to me.

...and this:

--I do NOT feel that PMysterious is a Werewolf. To me he seems like a townie with a nerve problem. His play resembles the play of Magneboar and FJM in other games and I do not buy that he is a Werewolf. Does that mean he is not one? Maybe, maybe not. He could be, for all I know. Which leads to my next point...

--Despite the fact he is probably a townie, are there any better leads? Is dave's play really condemning enough to consider voting him out at this stage? Is Diaz a viable vote? I do not think so. So point number three

--All things considered, despite my belief PMysterious is a townie, I do not think there is a better lead at this point of the game.

You read him as a "complete townie", but you think that he's the best candidate for the lynch? The point of lynching people off is to try and find the WOLVES, not to get rid of people you think are townies. If you do not feel that he is a Werewolf, then why go after him? You also compare PM's play to that of Magneboar and FJM, who were BOTH townies if you recall. That comparison only adds to the conclusion that PM is a townie, but you still advocate that PM is the best lynch. Why?

And yes, at the moment we do have a better lead: YOU. I would like to hear what you have to say before voting for you.

 

[ProHawk]

446

So with the majority seeing dave as less wolfish; and if we take PM to be naive townie, that leaves us two leads: Diaz and PCPB. Diaz, besides using his own special homebrew of RVS/RQS, has done nothing really wrong in my eyes. I kind of expected such a move from him out of the gate. Had Ulti not challenged me early, Diaz probably would have been the only one creating discourse. Therefore, I feel PCPB is a more solid lead, and therefore, he has earned my vote.

Thoughts?

~~~~~~

Interesting arguments against PCPB. I agree that he has been very indecisive, yet accusatory. As for my thoughts on your second lead…

After much conversation about Diaz’s playing style at the beginning, the conversation switched to new players and their ineptitude. I believe the same can be said of veteran players who know exactly what to do in order to avoid suspicion. Can deception be played too perfectly? There has already been some referencing to the need for Diaz to act similar to past games in order to maintain consistency. What about conforming to the town’s wishes to escape heat? After post #313 (which was a very short joking explanation of his behavior), his next posts #353, #375, #389 (A seemingly normal post, but not explaining why he began joking), and #407 have lacked his initial style of play. His antics are missing, as well as his posts.

I realize that some feel Diaz’s actions to be normal and non-threatening, so I am throwing this back to all of you who have experience. Is the change of behavior (conforming and dropping his antics) any cause for additional suspicion?

Although there have been speculation as to why, I would love for Diaz to formally respond himself instead of basking in the confusion he has created.

As a side note, @DragonClyne725, great summary of DarthPikas Posts :thumb:

 

[DarthPika]

I really wouldn't worry about Diaz yet. He could be acting strange for any number of reasons. People who act strangely are like nice little puzzles that tend to work them selves out, since they also tend to draw a attention to them selves... wanted or otherwise. Dropping his behavior is perfectly normal. It's very likely he was simply trying to stir up trouble, see if a n00b would bite, and possibly get something productive done.

 

[sdrawkcab]

Posted towards PMysterious

I doesn't seem like you want to lynch dave628 anymore. I can't say I'm surprised. As soon as I saw how much he was defending you, I knew that you wouldn't support lynching him.

So if you don't want to lynch dave628, then who do you think we should lynch?

I've only been able to read up to this post right now, and wanted to record my thoughts before I forgot about it.

This seems very team aligned to me. Whether they're wolfs, in a mason group, brothers? If the town is leaning towards voting PM we might get some info on jellyfisher. Good or bad news we don't know, Like i said I just wanted to point it out.

Of course it could be nothing :redface:

 

[Scottistru]

Don't know if it's obvious from my vote, but I fully support a pcpb lynch at this point, for reasons already stated by myself and others.

 

[Jason]

Day 1 is nothing but a crapshoot in the dark.

Due to that reason, I prefer not to do a vote yet unless there is an absolute majority.

For now, I see nothing totally fishy about anyone - even if those newcomers like PMysterious and Dave may make their own mistakes, and I do know veterans like Diaz and others often doing alot of bluffing and trolling which is a normal part of the game.

So yeah....

Forgive me if I do not have much to say at this point in time..... God, I hate day ones.

 

[PokeChampofPokeBeach]

I made a mistake; you are absolutely correct, townies should never be lynched. This was AWFUL logic on my part and I hope it can be forgiven. Honestly, my opinion changed about PMysterious. I didn't want to admit this entirely. For some reason, I think jpulice's vote scared me (and to be completely honest with you these new votes scare me a lot too). I know that's not really an excuse, but it's true. I don't have anything to hide, so I will come completely clean.

Scottistru's post changed my mind about PMysterious. At this point, I am completely unconvinced that he could be a Werewolf. When jpulice caught my contradiction, I still had an out. I could have clarified that my opinion changed and I probably wouldn't be having this much heat thrown on me. But I didn't. I made a huge mistake and that was trying to justify what I had said before. This is obviously quite a huge mistake. You can't take two conflicting opinions and merge them, but I honestly tried to do that. The result was bad logic... no surprise there.

I can't really defend the things I have said recently... all in all, I will completely admit that my logic at the time made no sense. But I see my error and realize what I did wrong. And I totally agree. Townies never should be lynched if there is evidence to suggest they are townies. I completely agree with this. And I do not believe that PMysterious is an acceptable candidate for the lynch. This is my opinion.

In summary, I can't truly defend bad logic... it is exactly what it is, bad logic cannot be defended because there is no reason in it... and there was no reason in what I was saying.

All I can ask for is a second chance. If you're willing to give me a second chance, I promise I won't mess up like this again. I realize that's probably too much to ask for.

I made an error and I hope you can see that. Even so, if you lynch me I understand. I would probably lynch myself at this point of the game.

 

[Diaz]

454
That doesn't sound like the pcpb that I remember.
I'm still at regionals, so I need to read the last page more carefully. We need to act with a little urgency now since it is the last rl day in the game day.
I think that this has been answered before, but is the midnight thing west coast time?
For those of you interested in my game history, just read through these:
pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=151074&highlight=diaz
pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=140945&highlight=diaz
pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=132681&highlight=diaz
pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=114540&highlight=diaz

I will be back on later today to weigh in. We need all hands on deck tonight. Esp vets.

 

[jellyfisher]

Posted towards PMysterious



I've only been able to read up to this post right now, and wanted to record my thoughts before I forgot about it.

This seems very team aligned to me. Whether they're wolfs, in a mason group, brothers? If the town is leaning towards voting PM we might get some info on jellyfisher. Good or bad news we don't know, Like i said I just wanted to point it out.

Of course it could be nothing :redface:

No, I'm not in a mason group with PM. If we really were in a mason group, I would have just sent him a message to start posting instead of voting for him.

 

[PokeChampofPokeBeach]

I'm running out of time. I made a horrible mistake and I don't think I have any other choice. Yes, this is dumb, but I don't see any other way of living past this day if I don't do this. You must understand, I'm basically dead anyway. This may only keep me alive that much longer, but if so perhaps there is a little good I can still do...

"Welcome. Thank you for coming. I am..."
"As the mayor, I've given everything to developing the city."
"As a trainer, I've simply been pursuing greater strength."
"But what I'm searching for now is a young Trainer who can show me a bright future."
"Perhaps you can show me that future the way Iris has."

 

[Absoltrainer]

I'm running out of time. I made a horrible mistake and I don't think I have any other choice. Yes, this is dumb, but I don't see any other way of living past this day if I don't do this. You must understand, I'm basically dead anyway. This may only keep me alive that much longer, but if so perhaps there is a little good I can still do...

"Welcome. Thank you for coming. I am..."
"As the mayor, I've given everything to developing the city."
"As a trainer, I've simply been pursuing greater strength."
"But what I'm searching for now is a young Trainer who can show me a bright future."
"Perhaps you can show me that future the way Iris has."

dum dum dum.....DUUUUUM, thickens does the plot

 

[Diaz]

@absol if you keep making yoda sounding posts, I'm gunna have to assume its either part of your role or a clue. You've said that it isn't intentional. If thats the case, stop it.
Posted with Mobile style...

 

[DragonClyne725]

"Welcome. Thank you for coming. I am..."
"As the mayor, I've given everything to developing the city."
"As a trainer, I've simply been pursuing greater strength."
"But what I'm searching for now is a young Trainer who can show me a bright future."
"Perhaps you can show me that future the way Iris has."

For those who don't know these quotes, these quotes are said by Drayden, Gym Leader of Opelucid Gym. I assume from this that PCoPB is claiming to be Drayden. If this is true, than PCoPB is probably town allied. He's on thin ice for sure, but I think we should give him some time to try and redeem himself.

On a different subject, I just looked over Absoltrainer's posts and I realized that he hasn't said much, and what he's said doesn't really contribute to the discussion at all. Here are some of AT's posts (in no particular order):

dum dum dum.....DUUUUUM, thickens does the plot

Dum Dum Dum, never good it is to reveal your role, espesially when you are not even close to being lynched. Past is past. An interesting post you have made.

@NoOneInParticular: Unwise it would be to make judgments on anyone using past games as a basis. Lies flow easily through a soil with no ground.

Double posting is bad, Diaz is annoying, reverse psycology perhaps, attract attention to not attract attention. Food for thought.

A fool Diaz acts as. Did the same in previous games he's done. Perhaps nothing to worry about, perhaps something to notice.

Who do YOU think we should lynch?

Even though he denies it, I'm thinking that he has some sort of speech impediment. So Absoltrainer, Who do YOU think we should lynch?