Werewolf xvi the rise of team plasma: Town wins

[ProHawk]

@JewelQuest: I did not say that Butler was in the game, nor that Cantor is claiming to be Butler. It is an example. Just that, an example. Butler's scenario/story is just an example of how I have inturtpreted the mentioning of a professor by Ghetsis in the update. I aslo did not single out Cantor with my thoughts. I just took "professor" and worked with that reference. A scientist can be loosly taken as Professor as well, in which the title can be one in both or singular.
Also, an archeologist is a doctor, by title. Science teachers with a degree can be a Professor. Just saying how I was trying to make a connection is all with an example.

@DP- I did not brush it aside, I have been saying all along that there is somethings that need to be considard and looked into. I do not think anything is "to broken", I think and do know that there is balance. This is where we will find wolves, in the un-balance.

Like, Ulti. I still think he is townie. I believe his role is balanced and he will have a concsequence of some sort. Ulti was correct when he said I had picked up on something. I do believe it is wise of Ulti to use his role wisely with the right timeing.

I also think there is good balance with the Monkey trio. Look at how they have a 1/3 role, there is 3 of them to have to work together, and there roles are balanced to be not OP.

I also think Omega is balanced out. Needs help to be balanced.

I know things need to add up. I know that my role is further proof of balance, and not OP. I have a psudeo-seer role, balanced and not OP. I have explained why already.

Also, "follow the cop" or whatever the deal is a balanced role as I see it right now. It would be balanced, a wolf could have that ability, and be a wolf as a drawback to create the balance.

If Akane is the true seer, that would be the counter-balance to KP.

I do not want to waste my role, and I would like to take out a wolf or an unfriendly Indie.

I will target the unfriendly Indie with my role, and vote on who I think is a wolf, based on what I believe to be un balanced.

Vote: KP

I believe KP that your bright powder "bluff" is where you are at fault in the logic of the risk you took. An item like that is too OP to be balanced fairly. Also, you can not keep the info about the bright powder strait as to what it does, and another player has to assist you in getting the item's ability strait. To wishy-washy by saying that the bright powder makes it impossable for a wolf to target you. And posative effects can get through? Seems a bit to good to be true. Your "reveal" timeing was interesting as well. If you have such a strong role, why did you reveal at all? Akane at least revealed at a good time, and with something to counter you as well. I think Akane is the best counter to you in regards to having things balanced.

I think I know why we have so many "mini" seer roles. Like myself. We have one true seer. A game should have at least one full detective and full seer. This has not been the case. (I am saying this in order to get the idea out and with logic) The wolves are unbalanced as well, look at what they have/had as far as roles go. It does fit that the wolves would need to have a seer type role in this game to balance out the number of townies who have seer abilities or possible seer ability gain. The wolves would be way out numbered, and the town would be unable to stop the wolves if there was not a way to have some sort of "back-up" roles to keep it fair. Akane is the solid seer role. KP is the counter.

Do I make sence with what I am saying? I believe KP to be a wolf. I believe Akane to be a seer.

Looking at the odds and the way the game could go, somewhere the game could shift in one way to favor a certain side. I think that everything is designed to have balance, and a way to keep that balance if it was to be off-set by the way the game is played.

I know certain things, I have yet to be able to verify certain things. But I can at least say that with the flavor text of my role and the way certain things are going, I can speak up a little bit more on my thoughts.

For each action, there is a reaction. To each reaction, balance needs to be regained.

I also would like to look a little more in to the professor issue.


Thoughts everyone?

My thoughts...

I like where you are going with the balance issue, but your point against KP... not so much.

Your argument is based on the fact that Akane is a seer, which is completely false from her reveal. She claimed to be a priest and even got her role mixed up thinking that it did not role-block. Personally, I find Akane to be much more suspicious (Akane vs KP). She lurks the whole game up until today. Her posts this game day have a 180 degree turn from how she had been playing. Her role reveal was TERRIBLE. I am not sure why you thought the moment was opportune... I dont know why you thought it was a good time, in fact it counters your statement about revealing at all. Priests are the one role that stop the wolves from their nightly rampage. Akane has been pushing VERY hard, focused on one person this whole game day, KP. I can understand why she feels KP has been suspicious, but I see very little concrete evidence.

With that said, the one thing that Akane has going for her is the update that points heavily to supporting her claim as Dr. House.

If I had to choose one vote Akane or KP, Akane would get mine at the moment. However, neither hold my suspicion over others players at the moment, particularly Ultimatedra who seems to be avoiding the fact that he may have mis-led the town into believing he has a role that is really bogus. And is trying to avoid the consequences that come with lying around here...

 

[King Piplup]

Just got home, way too exhausted, but I'll get on this right now...

@JewelQuest: I did not say that Butler was in the game, nor that Cantor is claiming to be Butler. It is an example. Just that, an example. Butler's scenario/story is just an example of how I have inturtpreted the mentioning of a professor by Ghetsis in the update. I aslo did not single out Cantor with my thoughts. I just took "professor" and worked with that reference. A scientist can be loosly taken as Professor as well, in which the title can be one in both or singular.
Also, an archeologist is a doctor, by title. Science teachers with a degree can be a Professor. Just saying how I was trying to make a connection is all with an example.

@DP- I did not brush it aside, I have been saying all along that there is somethings that need to be considard and looked into. I do not think anything is "to broken", I think and do know that there is balance. This is where we will find wolves, in the un-balance.

Like, Ulti. I still think he is townie. I believe his role is balanced and he will have a concsequence of some sort. Ulti was correct when he said I had picked up on something. I do believe it is wise of Ulti to use his role wisely with the right timeing.

I also think there is good balance with the Monkey trio. Look at how they have a 1/3 role, there is 3 of them to have to work together, and there roles are balanced to be not OP.

I also think Omega is balanced out. Needs help to be balanced.

I know things need to add up. I know that my role is further proof of balance, and not OP. I have a psudeo-seer role, balanced and not OP. I have explained why already.

Also, "follow the cop" or whatever the deal is a balanced role as I see it right now. It would be balanced, a wolf could have that ability, and be a wolf as a drawback to create the balance.

If Akane is the true seer, that would be the counter-balance to KP.
Akane claimed Priest....
I do not want to waste my role, and I would like to take out a wolf or an unfriendly Indie.
So now I'm a waste...awesome.
I will target the unfriendly Indie with my role, and vote on who I think is a wolf, based on what I believe to be un balanced.

Vote: KP

I believe KP that your bright powder "bluff" is where you are at fault in the logic of the risk you took. An item like that is too OP to be balanced fairly.

OK, OK hold up. I bluffed two things about the Brightpowder-

• % of working. This was to totally discouarge the wolves from targeting me
• What type of roles it protected me from. Perhaps this was a mistake, but I was concerned about roleblock/redirect. I really hadn't considered that a seer would actually be concerned with me, but I should've been more specific.

Also, you can not keep the info about the bright powder strait as to what it does, and another player has to assist you in getting the item's ability strait. To wishy-washy by saying that the bright powder makes it impossable for a wolf to target you.

Quote it. All I ever "mixed up" was the bluffs posted above.

And posative effects can get through?

Pikamaster can confirm that only offensive roles are blocked, but I don't actually know what that means-supposedly Roleblock/Kill+other stuff. (Per AAM)

Seems a bit to good to be true. Your "reveal" timeing was interesting as well. If you have such a strong role, why did you reveal at all? Akane at least revealed at a good time, and with something to counter you as well. I think Akane is the best counter to you in regards to having things balanced.

What on earth....? I was taking serious pressure, and wanted the town to move on to better targets.... Please re-examine your facts before posting stuff like this..

I think I know why we have so many "mini" seer roles. Like myself. We have one true seer. A game should have at least one full detective and full seer. This has not been the case.

XV had this many (more?) pseudo seers.

(I am saying this in order to get the idea out and with logic) The wolves are unbalanced as well, look at what they have/had as far as roles go. It does fit that the wolves would need to have a seer type role in this game to balance out the number of townies who have seer abilities or possible seer ability gain. The wolves would be way out numbered, and the town would be unable to stop the wolves if there was not a way to have some sort of "back-up" roles to keep it fair. Akane is the solid seer role. KP is the counter.

Wolves didn't have one last game, and there were plenty of (I know, different mod, but Gym games tend to follow a pattern) psuedos/detectives.

Do I make sence with what I am saying? I believe KP to be a wolf. I believe Akane to be a seer.

Akane claimed priest....:nonono:

Looking at the odds and the way the game could go, somewhere the game could shift in one way to favor a certain side. I think that everything is designed to have balance, and a way to keep that balance if it was to be off-set by the way the game is played.

I know certain things, I have yet to be able to verify certain things. But I can at least say that with the flavor text of my role and the way certain things are going, I can speak up a little bit more on my thoughts.

That was extremely helpful to the town. "The game could go either way, and I know certain things" Great content there.

For each action, there is a reaction. To each reaction, balance needs to be regained.

I also would like to look a little more in to the professor issue.


Thoughts everyone?

bold...

 

[JewelQuest]

Like what everyone else said, Akane claimed PRIEST. Also, I did post after the first time pointing out my mistakes in my logic.

And if you are so worried about KP, why is your role suddenly a 'waste' on him?

Also, we have absolutely no proof that you are who you say you are either. You could be a wolf seer just as KP could. The difference is that we have a pretty good idea who KP is, why we have no idea who you are.

Also, I'd like PF5 to step up and be a contributing member. Same to you, TheKing. I would like to have us lynch a wolf today, and we can't tell whether or not you are a wolf when you are just sitting there twiddling your thumbs.

 

[Benzo]

KP is "not a waste"- that part I do admit to wording incorrectly. I appologize on that aspect with faulty wording. I voted for KP, therefore why would I need to use my rore on a possible lynch lead? That is my intentions on with my wording.

@KP- getting a person to respond with more information is my purpose. I wanted better clarification on the situation between you and Akane. I also was looking to see if/when and how Akane would respond to my posting. I do also admit that I confused priesting with seering between the two of you.

I am aware that I am in the same situation as to being trusted or not in my words and my alience. I am still waiting on AAM to reply as to getting my role info and making sure I am correct in what my role does. If my role does not see alience, and is seer for roles, then I will know and so as you all will know who would be a better target choice based on what I can get with my role. The only solid garuntee I have for proof as to show my alience is to show it in the up-date.

 

[pokemonfreak5]

Just posting to let everyone know that I am back.

You'll hear from me as soon as I catch up on things, both at home and on the game and make some posts.

Please bear with me on this.

Also, I'd like PF5 to step up and be a contributing member. Same to you, TheKing. I would like to have us lynch a wolf today, and we can't tell whether or not you are a wolf when you are just sitting there twiddling your thumbs.

Fair enough, just pointing out that very few musical instruments actually involving the use of thumbs, particularly not in a twiddling motion....

 

[JewelQuest]

Just posting to let everyone know that I am back.

You'll hear from me as soon as I catch up on things, both at home and on the game and make some posts.

Please bear with me on this.





Fair enough, just pointing out that very few musical instruments actually involving the use of thumbs, particularly not in a twiddling motion....

It's something my parents use a lot. So I picked it up from them.

I'll await your post, then.

 

[King Piplup]

King Piplup has been incredibly wishy-washy and flip-floppy this game, and could very well have been lynched already if he didn’t claim seer.

True, and I certainly don't deny it. I played pathetically Day 1/2, thats for certain.

Curious, then, that he hasn’t been killed or (judging by the updates) even targeted by the wolves yet. I’ll elaborate more on this in a bit, but first let’s look at some of his posts:

Brightpowder. /story

BrightPowder turned out to be a "bluff". Even if it wasn't, though, it still wouldn't have explained why you weren't targeted by the wolves, only why you weren't killed by the wolves.

OK, I have the item. I was over exxagerating its powers to discourage the wolves from going after me. Explain how this is a bad play?

“No lynch is by far the best thing we can do right now!”


Then we get three posts in a row by PF5, ProHawk and DP, all expressing their dislike of voting No Lynch. And, of course, what does KP follow up with?


“Disregard my last post, guys, No Lynch is obviously a terrible idea!”


“Eh, you know what? I don’t really care about the No Lynch thing anymore. Oh, and I’m not gonna vote. But you should totally vote!”


“Yeah, I got called out on my fence sitting, so I guess I’ll go ahead and post my thoughts. But I’m still not gonna vote!”

Adressing all of these points together below, but FWIW, I'd been playing TCG all day and am lying in bed far too late in a hotel room. Clearly I should've just kept my mouth shut, because I do make myself look like a complete idiot and like I have no idea what I'm doing, as well as looking scummy as possible.

FWIW? That's not worth anything. You can't expect to be cleared of suspicion because you admit to playing scummily.

FWIW, which was nothing. I expected nothing, but lying it is stupid...

“Yeah, I’d be all for lynching Dave today. I’m still not voting, though!”

I'll be honest, I didn't see you making any constructive posts/points against people. With half the 'Gym offline, we needed ideas quickly, and I didn't have anyone. I was basically asking if anyone had any ideas, because if we didn't, Diaz would likely be lynched, and I felt he was town. If you look at past Day 1's, alot of the time the person who makes the radical vote gets lynched. I frankly did NOT want that to be me.

Way to strawman your way out of that argument. Me contributing or not contributing has nothing to do with this. Also, your argument has nothing to do with the post in question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Piplup
You have a good point.
At this point, as posted above, my favorite lynch is dave268 (sorry if the numbers are wrong), simply because I think the one post made in his defense should not be enough to get him off the radar.




Posted with Mobile style...

Can't see anything about asking people who to lynch here. You're saying "My favorite lynch is dave628" and then not voting for him. Why?

Again, see my voting fears and etc. It's not good logic, and I seriously regret it and am trying to play better.

“Time to completely disregard PMysterious! Oh, and I feel like voting now. Can you tell me who to vote for, please?”

I'll be honest again, I thought PM was just a total idiot. Clearly I was wrong, but hindsight is 20/20...

“I think Dave’s the best lynch today (still not going to vote for him myself, though, in case people disagree with my vote), but I actually don’t really know why we’re lynching him.”

Again, yep, this makes me look totally stupid and was really illogical.

“Yeah, PM’s a valid lynch, probably the best, but I’m not gonna vote him because I don’t think a lot of others will vote him and then I won’t be on the popular bandwagon. Oh, and since he's the Alpha, I don't really want to vote for him either way.”

Again, more of my "fear of stepping out of line because the vets rule the world here" syndrome. I realize I need to shake that, but that's my (not the greatest) logic.

There's a difference between being careful and scummy. Things that just look odd (erratic vote and opinion hopping, not voting at all even though you've clearly stated suspicions strong enough for casting a legitimate vote) usually fall firmly into the latter category.

Difference maybe, but on here it's a razor thin difference.

"Last-minute chance to control my vote, everyone!"

Not how I meant it, but that is how it reads.

Then how did you mean it? You said "Any last thoughts before I vote Dave?". That gives very clear signals to me that you're attempting to go with the popular opinion and letting yourself be swayed by others, to the point where you're inviting others to basically convince you of the best vote instead of formulating an opinion yourself.

Meant that unless anyone had any better ideas (Seriously, it's Day 1 and I didn't feel as strongly about Dave as I was leading onto) I was going to drop my vote. Crime?

These posts are all from Day 1. Already, he's looking scummy from all the flip-flopping and unwillingness to take an independent stance. Also, his reluctance to consider PM as a valid lynch target for various reasons makes a lot more sense now that he flipped wolf.

You saw my reasoning above.

To summarize-
• I freak about getting lynched early (especially with a seer role), and did not want to be on the wrong side of the vet's ire so early. Clearly all I've done is put suspicion on myself, but that's the logic.
Let's go through some more posts:


This is where he stole an argument from a post two posts above his. He blames it on Tapatalk delaying his post, but that claim is just so incredibly easily fakeable.

It's true. I clearly can't prove this, but I'll go to the developer to see if there's a log on these type of things if you really want proof.


Awesome contradiction right there. Do you want the priest playing a guessing game, or do you want them protecting DP?

Total stupidity. Seriously, that was stupid.

Stupid of you or of me?

Me, but I like how you ignore my last two points.

"OH HEY GUYS, DP IS A POWER ROLE TOWNIE. JUST THOUGHT YOU OUGHT TO KNOW."
Wow, really? Way to be completely anti-town by revealing a power role who wasn't very pressured anyway.

Thought you all would like to know my night activities, since hiding them would be anti-town as you can get.

So then all seers, priests, roleblockers and everyone with a night role has to claim ASAP because "hiding their night activities would be as anti-town as you can get"? Faulty logic.

In case you hadn't noticed, I had already claimed at that point. Faulty logic alright, but not mine.

This post is delicious. It's such a convenient scheme for the wolves! KP, the wolf rolecop, seers someone. The wolves nightkill KP's target, getting rid of a townie AND giving KP credibility by distancing him from the wolves. But the wolves missed one big point: they haven't even targeted KP yet. Why would the wolves kill KP's targets instead of KP himself? Sure, killing a seer's targets prevents his night role from being useful, but killing the seer would accomplish the same thing and more! So logically, the only reason for wolves to do the above would be because they want to keep the seer alive. And when would they want that? When the seer is a wolf, of course!

Wolf/seer? See post on screwed up game. If that's true, then we have serious issues with the game here.

Not as messed up as a 100% protection item…

Do I really have to continue this...? I can't believe that the people accusing me here can't realize I was trying to bluff the wolves. Seriously.

I don’t think you’re Shauntal, KP. There’s been no evidence so far to suggest the Elite 4 being in the game, which means that E4 claims should be taken with exactly as big a grain of salt as non-Pokémon universe name claims.

You'd be wrong. I'm Shauntal, /story. If I was a wolf, would I be stupid enough to claim Shauntal (a Pokemon E4 from the Region the game is based off of, when there are clearly characters from other universes that wouldn't be likely to be countered)

Textbook example.

How is it WIFOM? How stupid would it be to claim someone likely in the game that early if I wasn't that person? Plus Thunderjolt has already semi-confirmed me as Shauntal since the flavor text in our roles match up almost exactly

I’m also interested in your BrightPowder. If it really does protect against everything that can happen to you during the night forever, wouldn’t that be extremely broken? Think what an actual town-aligned seer could do with that thing! They could reveal as soon as they get it, and then essentially ensure a town win! How is that even remotely balanced?

It does offer 100% protection at this point. My theory (since it does only raise evasion in the Video Game) is that the level of protection eventually falls or even completely goes away. It's not unheard of to have items that prevent wolf kill. (See DP Paraisan Intrigue)

It was all a "bluff"!

It really gets frustrating when all you do is attack the Brightpowder issue when I was trying to protect myself from the wolves.

I see a number of you advocating for a “follow the cop” strategy, where we let KP seer the “IDK list” and give us the wolves. However, for a strategy like this to work, we need a confirmed town seer. Which is exactly what KP is NOT. And even if there was a possibility that he is town-aligned, which I don’t see, why would we take the risk? Following a wolf rolecop is a fast and easy way to lose.

Again, I have never even considered a Wolf seer. Ever. It would be ridiculously OP.

To summarize my points against KP:
• Has been posting illogically and scummy
Can't deny it.

• Has not been using his role well (yeah, sure, go ahead and seer Lil_Magma (who didn’t even post that game day) on Night 1 instead of someone who actually took heat like PM or Diaz. Sure, target Redados1 Night 2 instead of someone like desufnoc.)
Wanted to get a read on Napoleon so we didn't have a power player possibly joining the wolves. Same logic with Waynegg replacing Redados1.

• Revealed DP as a power role townie by repeatedly telling the priests to protect him
Perhaps dumb, but in all honesty, it would be more scummy for me to withhold information.

No. No it wouldn't. Revealing DP as a townie power role is incredibly scummy, because it basically screams out to the wolves "Hey guys, killing DP will weaken the town considerably!". You've stated you wanted a priest to protect DP a number of times now, but priesting DP would roleblock him, rendering his power role useless. And by repeatedly stating how much you feel he needs to be priested, you're opening a perfect opportunity for the wolves to get a guaranteed kill - just don't kill DP!

Priests didn't have to protect him, but with the pressure there for them to do it, any smart wolf wouldn't target him.

• Has not been targeted by the wolves yet
Can't honestly speak to why this has happened. The Brightpoweder explains last night (Along with the freeze)

Nope, BrightPowder explains nothing. If you were targeted by the wolves and BrightPowder blocked the kill, then this would be a valid argument.

Maybe the wolves were smart enough to not target me with the threat of 100% immunity? (Even 25% would be risky for a group of wolves that really can't afford to waste a kill if they want to win)


• Claims to have a gamebreaking item that should not exist by any reasonable WW modding standards
Again, see WWX(I?)

• Has a somewhat shady name claim
How? Please elaborate.

We have no evidence of your character being in the game, and IIRC no character with even a slight resemblance to Shauntal has appeared in the updates yet. Evidently at least some (if not all) night roles are shown in the updates - so why no mention of a girl with a Jellicent?

Not all show up, clearly. I believe AT's last game was an exception rather than the standard for updates.

And here’s what I think needs to happen:
• Ideally, we lynch KP today, getting rid of another wolf. If not, then for the love of Arceus at least seer him.
Sounds fun, seer a seer...I welcome it though, if the town has a consensus.

• Ultimatedra, I recommend you challenge KP. Going by KP’s vague description of BrightPowder, it should not protect him from roles during the day. If you challenge him, the resulting update will surely reveal whether or not he’s telling the truth about his claim.
I welcome this also.

• KP, you obviously have a lot to answer. I would specifically like to hear this from you, however: how does your BrightPowder work more specifically, and who gave it to you?
I elaborated more on it above, and it is seriously best for that person to remain anonymous. They have even requested it through a bit of a coded message in their post(s).

• I’ve obviously painted a huge target on my back. So, to my other doctor friend out there (you know who you are), please protect me tonight.
Agreed, the wolves will be on you.

Let’s lynch a wolf today.

VOTE: King Piplup

~Akane

KP:

Did you miss my entire post? Read the parts in purple again. Are you claiming I didn’t refute any of your points?

Actually, I did miss it.

Also, you yet again fail to see what I mean with the BrightPowder. I don’t care about what it actually does – I was talking about your “bluff”. This is your “bluff”:

I've explained this already, but I'll do it again-

• Wanted to discouarge roleblockers/obviously the kill
• I hadn't considered anybody would want to seer me, so it seemed a non-issue. Clearly I was wrong.
  

All I can see here is you claiming it protects you from ALL night roles. Not just offensive roles, but everything. So why would you claim it protects you from seers if you just “bluffed” the claim to avoid wolves targeting you?

Pull evidence from 100 posts ago ("Hold up a minute")when reasons above still applied to the bluff. Not very solid reasoning.
~~~


http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Role_Cop
No.


~~~



That’s not nearly enough. We have no evidence (minus your claim) that Hawes is in the game – heck, we don’t even know Lenora’s in the game yet. More proof, please?

Bold/blue...Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I've caught up on my missed accusations.

 

[Pikamaster]

Benzo, I don't know if Cantor is lying about his role or not. However, I'm almost positive I know who he is claiming and that this person IS town. It WOULD make perfect sense if this person is in the game, and I'm almost certain Cantor is town if he is who he says he is.

 

[JewelQuest]

Benzo, I don't know if Cantor is lying about his role or not. However, I'm almost positive I know who he is claiming and that this person IS town. It WOULD make perfect sense if this person is in the game, and I'm almost certain Cantor is town if he is who he says he is.

Same here. If he is lying about his role, however, then I can that he must be either wolf or indie hiding their role.

I am almost positive that Juniper is in this game because of the first post.
But I am not sure about the person that Cantor is claiming, as there is absolutely no proof of that person being in any of the updates. So, I do not think it would make perfect sense of this person being in the game(providing we are talking about the same person here.

 

[Cantor]

First of all, The people who are quoteing and then replying via bold/ diff colors.

STOP. STOP IT NOW. Cannot read well...no not reading the words reading the person....when they do not pick what to reply to.

If you want to deal with what someone said, quote the portion you are talking about...then respond to it.

Then quote the next portion... don't be lazy in responses.

@Everyone else.

Because of so many roles and names being revealed, we are now playing race to the finish with the wolves.

This game is and always has been information-centric.

We need to seriously prioritize information gathering. This means that we prioritize via an information calculus. We target people with specific roles via a metric based on how much information can be garnered about the state of the game via that role result.

This is the honest purpose of my list which DC725 seems to avoid at all costs

Obviously we need to learn information about people whom we know least about. To do this, we need to do one of two things.

The first, for whom I need to scour the rules is the use of a public key-cryptographic system in order to allow people to send messages to PCoPB through the forum that would be readable only by PCoPB. Because he is confirmed town almost absolutely, he is a safe repository of all town knowledge. This system is totally up my ally as cryptography and number theoretical cryptographic systems, such as public key cryptography are one of my specialties.

If this is mod permissable, I would post a system by which those who are townies who have information that PCoPB should have can send him the information via an encoded system in the forum.

However as this utterly breaks the game, it is likely that AAM will not go for this option. Which while utterly win on so many levels is utterly broken in a game such as this.

Rather it is likely that we ought to go with option two. This option is centralized around a complete core dump of all role garnered information this day. This means that all seer info and other such information that can be used to discern someones role would be publically posted. This is because in this race, there is a specific end date at which the wolves win, and the only thing that can move our win time forward is information.

In the case of omega, whose identity is still obfuscated, this would require a bit of a special working. As the only seer who is publically known whom I do not know the identity of, we ought to try and keep it that way. This is difficult only in the case that there are results which were shared by omega with people who are now dead. In that case I would say that Omega him/herself should reveal the results acting as if omega had partnered with them. In that way omega's identity could be hidden while still getting the info out.

For the sake of falsifiable claims and entropy reduction, the lynch should be pointed at those who we know least about. This would very much be TheKing/PM5.

In terms of seers, that is a toughie. One method of information calculus would say the result which would garner or verify the most information would be to verify the identity of the possible-seers who have vouched for specific people. Another would be to climb the claim ladder.

At this moment, we need read-capable discussion however.

Ultimatedra, you are a liar via all reads I can see. Prove me wrong and challenge TheKing.

PM5 via all research I have done on the gym, hiding behind RL is a classic wolf scheme. You said your back...so why aren't you back?

DC725 you refuse to use my list, you make changes without purpose and you avoid it. Why?

AT... You got silent real fast. Sure RL excuse, but you were quiet before that. Why did you drop off the grid?

SoA! All I have seen you do the entire game is make small pithy statements at someone else's expense without adding anything to the game. Why?

This lynch CANNOT be another one were we decide it last day. Every single time y'all demonstrate you have plenty of time to play this game. Play now so we don't screw up later.

Benzo, I like how you are thinking. I want you to expand. Don't look simply for out of balance elements. Look for logical, inductive, deductive, and statistical anomalies. Look for things that are horribly OP and things that are horribly UP. As for a prof being an indie or a wolf. I find that rather unlikely given what I can see from the talk about the profs in the roles of dead players and in the intro to the game.

 

[JewelQuest]

You realize that when Omega posts acting like one of Omega's helpers, Omega is going to be revealed because people will be looking out for the person who does this? Some people are gonna put 1 and 1 together and realize his identity....

 

[Cantor]

except for the fact that there will be no distinguishing characteristics that make omega omega.

Saying hey, omega asked me for help and we got results on X. These results are: Y

Is exactly what the people who helped omega would say. which is exactly what omega would say. So there is no characteristic out of place for the wolves to discover who omega is.

Beyond this, it is not known whether omega in fact has gotten results from someone helping him/her who is now dead.

According to my math, two times omega failed because Absol and Nap refused. This means there have only been three omega results possible. IIRC two of them have already been revealed, although I do not recall which one was revealed besides ultimatedra...so there may be two needing to be revealed.

 

[Son_of_Apollo]

Why I make short statements... it's how I always am tbh. I'm generally kinda quiet, and when I do talk I just make a quick summary of my opinion, then move on. If anyone has seen my posts in other areas of the gym, you know this is true. You say I don't add anything. ehhh. Agreed. My role really isn't interesting, and it seems like whenever I come up with something I look back and see someone beat me to it.

Not gonna make excuses. I do need to step up.

 

[DragonClyne725]

except for the fact that there will be no distinguishing characteristics that make omega omega.

Saying hey, omega asked me for help and we got results on X. These results are: Y

Is exactly what the people who helped omega would say. which is exactly what omega would say. So there is no characteristic out of place for the wolves to discover who omega is.

Beyond this, it is not known whether omega in fact has gotten results from someone helping him/her who is now dead.

According to my math, two times omega failed because Absol and Nap refused. This means there have only been three omega results possible. IIRC two of them have already been revealed, although I do not recall which one was revealed besides ultimatedra...so there may be two needing to be revealed.

Except for the fact that the one person who miraculously "helped Omega" for every single Night and is able to post the results of each night is most likely Omega. However, I am up for an information-dump. That way, not matter who dies Tonight, no information is really lost, and we can all be on the same page (except for the wolves who are on an entirely different page, but w/e)

Benzo, I don't know if Cantor is lying about his role or not. However, I'm almost positive I know who he is claiming and that this person IS town. It WOULD make perfect sense if this person is in the game, and I'm almost certain Cantor is town if he is who he says he is.

From his hinting, I have a pretty good guess as to who he is claiming to be. However, what makes me suspicious is this: Why say you are a Professor, and then NOT say which one? It could be so that he can just hint around at being someone and not actually claim the name until he is certain that they are not in the game. His not name claiming could be the fact that he is afraid of being counter-claimed.

According to my math, two times omega failed because Absol and Nap refused. This means there have only been three omega results possible. IIRC two of them have already been revealed, although I do not recall which one was revealed besides ultimatedra...so there may be two needing to be revealed.

One of the Nights, I used my Woobat on someone who happened to help Omega that Night, and I was able to receive the results of the search, aka the target person's role. The role would be of almost no use to a wolf, so for now, I presume that person to be Town. If we do the Info-Dump, I would be happy to reveal the information. However, since the person is not under suspicion as of now, I will keep the info safe.

One thing that bugs me is the fact that PCoPB and Omega were only able to see a PART of Ultimatedra's role. From the info I received from my Omega helping target, I received the target's entire role.

DC725 you refuse to use my list, you make changes without purpose and you avoid it. Why?

Not sure, I just don't really like the way it's structured. I'm cool with organization, I'm just not 100% sure why your list helps us at the moment.

 

[Absoltrainer]

AT... You got silent real fast. Sure RL excuse, but you were quiet before that. Why did you drop off the grid?

I'm in DC until tomnorrow, I'n a little drunk, nows shape to rwpalty, replay, uh, will respond when sober. family reuinion anfd party:smile:

 

[ultimatedra]

Ultimatedra, you are a liar via all reads I can see. Prove me wrong and challenge TheKing.

Liar? Nope.
Completely upfront about my role? Nope , same as everybody else. If I have to play my cards out I will - but I will not be playing into your "I am the leader" strategy. You tried pressuring me before and I gave my defense even though PCoPB already cleared me. You are playing a very aggressive game right now and even willing to try to bend the rules of the game. I don't like this play personally but who am I to speak up and tell you what to do? I am just the guy who did a challenge day 1. And that is all anybody cares to focus on when my name comes up.

 

[Absoltrainer]

hey so, I need to ead pagees 107 108 abd 109. I;m in ow shape to respond. BIGKV familhy pparty. will talk tomarrow morning. sorryyu.

 

[ProHawk]

Except for the fact that the one person who miraculously "helped Omega" for every single Night and is able to post the results of each night is most likely Omega. However, I am up for an information-dump. That way, not matter who dies Tonight, no information is really lost, and we can all be on the same page (except for the wolves who are on an entirely different page, but w/e)



From his hinting, I have a pretty good guess as to who he is claiming to be. However, what makes me suspicious is this: Why say you are a Professor, and then NOT say which one? It could be so that he can just hint around at being someone and not actually claim the name until he is certain that they are not in the game. His not name claiming could be the fact that he is afraid of being counter-claimed.



One of the Nights, I used my Woobat on someone who happened to help Omega that Night, and I was able to receive the results of the search, aka the target person's role. The role would be of almost no use to a wolf, so for now, I presume that person to be Town. If we do the Info-Dump, I would be happy to reveal the information. However, since the person is not under suspicion as of now, I will keep the info safe.

One thing that bugs me is the fact that PCoPB and Omega were only able to see a PART of Ultimatedra's role. From the info I received from my Omega helping target, I received the target's entire role.



Not sure, I just don't really like the way it's structured. I'm cool with organization, I'm just not 100% sure why your list helps us at the moment.

I want to jump on Cantor as well for a second... I want to point out something very interesting.

I find it VERY interesting that Cantor has guessed each lynch correctly. I want to lay out his day by day actions to see if anyone else picks up on the trend that I have been seeing.

NOTE: All of my blue comments are assuming he is a wolf, analyzing his behavior.

DAY 1 - 3 Posts - 1st post attacks Diaz, 2nd post Votes Diaz, 3rd post DEFENDS a NO LYNCH, without voting for a NO LYNCH and maintains his stance on Diaz. #476.Nothing too interesting here, except that he posts very little in comparison and does not talk about anyone else except for Diaz, despite the constant conversation about PM (wolf) and Dave (townie who we lynched).

Lurking, does not participate in town discussion, maintains stance on someone he knows is not a wolf (assuming that the information we received from bluenation is true), maintains distance from the Alpha wolf - avoids discussion of PM's (Alpha Wolf) terrible play Day 1

DAY 2 - 1 Post 869 - This was the SS7 lynch. He posts once to use a RL excuse of his absence, promises that he is back to post, does not post again, No mention of Diaz, and does not continue in his reasoning from Day 1. Does not vote, even after acknowledging SS7 being a wizard, and mentioning that the only good wizard was Gandalf. Vote count on SS7 at the time of this post was 9, with a majority lynch of 15.

Lurking, again, even after posting an excuse for it. Does not vote for anyone, does not maintain any view of Diaz from the previous day and maintains distance from the lynch of SS7 (wolf). He would have known that SS7 was a wolf and silently hoped that he would not die.

DAY 3 - 15 Posts - DRASTIC increase in activity level. Wants to look into who sdrawkab was looking into to find Ghetsis, but never does. Disappears for a lot of posts, and comes back to attack Diaz again. Votes Diaz. Banters with jellyfisher about Diaz/DP/Vets.#1449#1466 Tries to stop the name-claiming. Tells me my vote against Redados1 could be better placed with someone else #1424. Tells everyone that scottistru is not a wolf, and mentions that wolves avoid ties with other wolves. #1538 He uses about 4 posts to try and keep Scottistru from being lynched and maintains his attacks on Diaz.

Could the drastic increase in activity be that he now filled the role of the strongest wolf (with SS7 gone) and had to step up his game? After a day of avoiding the subject, focuses all of his attention on attacking one player. Does not comment on anyone during the day until the end to try to stop the lynch of Scottistru (townie). Being a wolf, he knew Scott was not one and would look admirable defending him when the role-reveal would come back townie. NOTE: Does not weigh in on the "witch hunt" that Diaz was conducting the whole day - another instance of distancing himself from the Alpha (Ghetsis/PMysterious who was on the list)

DAY 4 - 6 Posts - Begins the day voting early and calling out PMysterious as a wolf. Posts two more times against PM. Weighs in on mine and Benzo's conversation and asks for priests protection, talks about dying/being a target.#1870. Two more posts, commenting on the death of PM, adds unnecessary votes on PM.

Reverts back to lurking. Knowing that PM was a wolf, and that PM was playing terrible from Day 1, plan was to remove him from position to help Cantor appear more townie. One post to contribute to town discussion about Benzo and his item, this begins his descent to town discussion contribution to blend in. Asking for priest protection when you know you wont die could tie up a priest from protecting a townie, overly stating that you are going to die would help you appear like you are frightened of the wolves, when in reality there is no threat. Also if a priest if protecting you, the seers will be blocked from seering you as well.

DAY 5 - 23 Posts - States the reason the wolves did not come after him due to asking for priest protection. Begins to look at and respond to other posts to contribute to discussion, something missing from Days 1-4. Attacks DarthPika. #2051. Votes DarthPika. Mentions his entire Day 4 of going after PMyserious. #2068. Defends Jason's role reveal. Unvotes DP, and begins to start helpful town discussion which will continue to the end of this day. #2153. Calls for a list of players to provide a dossier/defense statement. Presents his own dossier/defense statement along with an analysis. Votes bluenation for failure to comply with his demands. Continues to defend Jason, states that I(ProHawk) have no evidence. #2295. Votes Bluenation again. Asks for priest protection again for himself and a list of targets to be randomized. Unvotes Bluenation. States that he is going to die (again) #2351. Posts making it look like he votes for Jason, but does NOT bold it.

Drastic Playstyle change. Cantor is a strong advocate of townie discussion now. He averaged <10 posts Days 1-4, and Day 5 has 23. Days 1-4 posts lack contributory posts with dissemination of information. Day 5 begins to collaborate. Again tries to get priest protection and mention death being near. He knew Jason was town, something a wolf would. Defends Jason to add to his pro-town list.

Day 6 - 22 Posts - Maintains contributory and high number of posts. The day is not over, and I think I have my point made from previous days' analysis.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FIRST - I want to point out that the blue text is SOLELY speculative and by no means has any meat to it. It is only a what if and is mostly WIFOM arguments. The actions outlined by days are factual evidence of Cantors actions each day. Make your own analysis of how he has played up to this point.

SECOND - These points are cause for suspicion. I believe that they warrant a full role-reveal and name-claim along with a seer to verify their veracity. I do not think this is lynch-able material, but we need to get information on him. His play-style has changed drastically, and has taken the lead as townie investigator. His analysis/take of more than one lynch has been correct. I don't know about most of you, but mine has been off. He defended two townies against the majority lynch (Scottistru, and Jason) as well as lynched a wolf (PMysterious). He is either has some really good luck/is really good at this game, or he is a wolf and knew their alignments before they died. Or maybe I am just upset that I have been wrong the majority of the time. Either way, we know little about him, so I think that he would be an excellent SEER TARGET.

 

[Benzo]

@Prohawk: This is what I would like to see more of, piecing together actions. Name claims right now are not trustworthy behind actions and intent behind the actions.
Making a list of actions on players is going to get us results better then trying to continue to discuss name claims. To much time has been spent in trying to counter claim names. Heck, at this point anyone who has not fully spoken up can be a wolf and counter claim a name on a true townie. Does that make sence?

Although I do not fully agree with all your thoughts Prohawk, but your thoughts are no different on how I try to piece togather info to see if it adds up. I guess there is a fine line in thiis game of speculation and WIFOM. But it does create discussion for sure.

Along the lines of Cantor, here is some more thoughts.
Like I said, balance is the key. I will ask this to Cantor then:

@Cantor: Dream World?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

If you understand this Cantor, I can make a better descision on you and possibly clear you in favor of being Indie-townie.
If you can not make a connection to my question, even as vague as it is, I do not think that you are Indie- townie, but Inde- unfriendly.

The time is not quite right to speak of certain things, Knighty night on that for now.

----------------------------------------

As far as KP:

Unvote: KP
I got what I needed, and thanks.

 

[Absoltrainer]

Hmmm, not one of my finer moments lol. Got a long flight pretty soon. I'll catch up on the last 3 pages today, and have a post up by tonight.