vaporeon
Moderator
I'll start by saying that Pokemon has gotten out of hand. In the other thread I posted about Side decks in Pokemon, most of you did not want to give it a time of day and others saying it wont work because its Pokemon and the cards are not design for it, which I don't agree with because many cards find life as side deck materials. However, in a game where you can play 4 of everything, a side deck seems almost worthless to the less competitive and some of the more competitive who want to play tier 1 decks because its a easy win but thats not fun and is ruining the fun of the game.
To start off with this, I would say I would outright ban a large amount of cards, due to my playstyle but we cant have a system like that. To correctly have a ban list, A LOT of factors must be accounted for and not just "I can't play my favorite Pokemon because of X". The largest factor of what is to be banned or restricted is its impact in the health of the format. Remember the Mewtwo EX format? Now we have Yveltal EX. Turns out Mewtwo is still good. What makes these to ban worthy? Their ability to do fast damage to evolving basic, making them worthless. These two cards are powerful against evolving decks, whether or not they go first and against the deck with single energy attachments and decks with no energy manipulation. Mewtwo and Yveltal are good because they require little energy to do huge damage, Yveltal doing 60 based damage whilst Mewtwo deals 40 based, both of which can deal more damage due to aggressive items such as Hypnotoxic Laser and Muscle Band. Back in Mewtwo's format and current since Mewtwo is still good, players argued that Double Colorless Energy was what broke it. That may be a true statement but why ban DCE because two cards over utilize it? The simple answer is... You don't. DCE is a powerful card and allows many colorless Pokemon to attack faster, as they have no real support, while other decks can make plays to get more energy into play faster, while also giving help to other attacks that can attack faster with it. Emolga EX with DCE isn't broken so why punish it?
I would argue, based on their impact against EVERY deck they face that Mewtwo EX and Yveltal EX be placed on the Ban list. There are still plenty of problem cards. Based on my gameplay experience. I would say they are;
Sableye (Junk Hunt)
Ability/Item Energy Acceleration (Emboar, Dark Patch, Blastiose, Colress Machine)
Crushing Hammer
Enhanced Hammer
Hypnotoxic Laser
Juniper/Sycamore
Pokemon Catcher/Lysandre
"Instant Killing" Pokemon/Trainers
Aggressive Trainers (muscle Band, dark Claw, Silver Bangle)
Overpowered Benched sitters
Trainer Lock
I believe this is the above issues I see with the game. In order to have a fun and competitive game, somethings are removed from the format deemed unhealthy for it. While ANY ban/restriction has some bias, its done almost all of the time to make the game healthier. Keep in mind what I listed above is NOT what should be banned but what I fell should be addressed. Sableye I would ban because of its usefulness in one deck type. Not only that, if Junk Hunt required any energy to be used, it would over centralize decks, make other deck types unplayable because it makes other "big basic" decks more powerful because they have more access to spent resources. One of Pokemon's current factors is little risk vs huge reward. Playing 4 Junipers in a deck allows many aggressive decks to at least see 1 card for a play. "Well I'll play this Virbank City Gym and juniper away 7 cards and hope I get my lasers. No need to worry much because I have Sableye." Sableye would be on my ban list because of its utility and exclusiveness. Other cards I would argue to ban are cards able to deal 200 or more damage in a single attack. Reason for that is these cards are backed by support that give them access to their attacks faster and have consistent use of the attack throughout the game. Some I would say are G-Booster, Black Kyurem EX (Black Ballista), and Both M Charizard EX (I would argue Charizard EX 012 due to its ability to 1 shot all stage 1 and 2 Pokemon, also some EX Pokemon with help). Maybe Rayquaza EX???
Similar to the VGC, a website came up with a group of rules to help make the game less broken and fun. One of their rules is a rule that prevents attacks that score instant knockouts from being used because they are fast and are hard to recover from. I argue the same for a TCG. No one wants to see their stage 2 they worked 3+ turns getting into play to be taken out by a big EX which only required 1 deck space to score the knockout. Recently a deck I build on PTCGO using a stage 2 Pokemon would lose out to things like G-Booster and Black Ballista, costing me 5 to 6 cards, instantly ending the game for me. Losing 5 or 6 cards to 1 card, that can do what it did the turn before again ends games for most, considering my 60 deck uses 28 to 32 trainers, while your 60 card deck can use up to 45. Removing these big hitters from the format opens up the game to other cards as well as make games more fun.
Other cards like Hypnotoxic Laser people would liked to be banned. I would like it to be banned but is it banned worthy? Like I said, all cards in Pokemon are at a automatic 4, unless the card says otherwise so when we see a Laser drop, we know 3 more are to follow, unless a Sableye is in play, then it can be 5+, depending on if the opposing got a good hand or not. By removing problematic cards like Sableye, cards can only be used up to 4 time. Even without Sableye, Laser as 4 is still too good. Bringing it down to 3 is still very useful. A good number for it would 2 but its still useful. Putting laser at 1 per deck will be best because it can still be useful, however Pokemon is a game with 60 card decks so I would argue we test it at 2. Virbank City Gym would be the reason I put it at 1 without banning or limiting Virbank City Gym.
Hammers are another think I think are a problem. While getting rid of DCE is a good option and one I really want to do during a game, we only do it because of Mewtwo EX, Yveltal EX and Bouffalant but other cards suffer from it, that are the main options of their deck. Without Sableye, the stress of dealing with hammers go down and decks that rely on them do better without seeing Junk hunts for hammers, the death wish of a game for that player. The only card I would ban here would be Crushing Hammer, as its able to discard any energy with the flip of a coin. I would put Enhanced Hammer at 1. There are still recovery options to get it back but its far less detrimental to the decks that rely on DCE or other special energy. I would argue for a outright ban of Enhanced Hammer as well as I feel energy should safer than what they are now.
I would restrict Juniper/Sycamore to 1 per deck, to help slow the pace of the game and for more strategic plays. Players wont burn their only Juniper/Sycamore to find 1 card and players can use other cards and perhaps better deck design, other trainers and draw support can be played. I would also restrict N but N would be put at 2 per deck. Another problem with the game is its draw power. While it can't be helped as its a fundamental flaw of the game, this format will offer more balance and skill. The goal is to not remove draw from the game but to slow it down and allow other options.
Other restrictions would be on energy acceleration. Thing like Dark Patch are less powerful without sableye and with a limit or 2. Pokemon like Blastiose and Emboar become 2 per deck, enough to still get their strategy but at a limit to where it can be overcome with careful planning. This places less importance of energy acceleration and allows other decks to be played. In a more skillful format, you see a little bit of everything. In a game where you can see 4 blastoise in play, you dont go after them but Blastoise at 2 becomes a better target where the player using the Blastoise has to stay on his toes. Other Bench sitters such as Garbodor and energy movers will also become 2 of as well. There are other cards that may be considered for a ban, such as Archeops for unintended card interaction with Pyroar.
A handfuf of items should be looked at, such as Max Potion but only items that are good at what they do and can impact a game. Bans and restrictions should only be used when they create unbalance within the game. Ideally you dont want to create cards that will get banned but sometimes card interactions are unintentionally created and must be addressed. As of now, my ban list would looks like this if used for testing.
Banned- 0 Per Deck/Side Deck
G-Booster
M Charizard- Flash Fire 013,069,107,108
Charizard EX- Flash Fire 012
Black Kyurem- Plasma Storm- 095
Sableye Dark Explorers
Crushing Hammer
Mewtwo EX
Yveltal EX
Dark Claw
Limited- 1 Per Deck/Side Deck
Professor Juniper/ Professor Sycamore
Enhanced Hammer
Hypnotoxic Laser
Pokemon Catcher
Lysandre
Klinklang (Plasma Steel)
Energy Retrieval
Superior Energy Retrieval
Professor Letter
Leafeon -Plasma Freeze- 011
Limited- 2 Per Deck/Side Deck
Aromatisse (Fairy Transfer)
Emboar (Infernal Fandango)
Blastoise (Deluge)
Keldeo EX
Garbodor
Trevenant
Dark patch
Blacksmith
Colress Machine
Muscle Band
Silver Bangle
Max Potion
N
Limited-3 Per Deck/Side Deck
None at this time
Again, this list is what I think would bring a healthy format to the game. if not adopted, I suggest it be tested and used for what I call Standard-Special, which will use 75 Minute, best of 3 with a side deck and a ban/restriction list.
I posted what I felt would be a justified reason for a ban and or restriction. What would you think would be best for the list or what would be remove. Please explain why you would add or remove. Try to keep bias out of it and think of the health of the game as a whole. Thank you for reading.
To start off with this, I would say I would outright ban a large amount of cards, due to my playstyle but we cant have a system like that. To correctly have a ban list, A LOT of factors must be accounted for and not just "I can't play my favorite Pokemon because of X". The largest factor of what is to be banned or restricted is its impact in the health of the format. Remember the Mewtwo EX format? Now we have Yveltal EX. Turns out Mewtwo is still good. What makes these to ban worthy? Their ability to do fast damage to evolving basic, making them worthless. These two cards are powerful against evolving decks, whether or not they go first and against the deck with single energy attachments and decks with no energy manipulation. Mewtwo and Yveltal are good because they require little energy to do huge damage, Yveltal doing 60 based damage whilst Mewtwo deals 40 based, both of which can deal more damage due to aggressive items such as Hypnotoxic Laser and Muscle Band. Back in Mewtwo's format and current since Mewtwo is still good, players argued that Double Colorless Energy was what broke it. That may be a true statement but why ban DCE because two cards over utilize it? The simple answer is... You don't. DCE is a powerful card and allows many colorless Pokemon to attack faster, as they have no real support, while other decks can make plays to get more energy into play faster, while also giving help to other attacks that can attack faster with it. Emolga EX with DCE isn't broken so why punish it?
I would argue, based on their impact against EVERY deck they face that Mewtwo EX and Yveltal EX be placed on the Ban list. There are still plenty of problem cards. Based on my gameplay experience. I would say they are;
Sableye (Junk Hunt)
Ability/Item Energy Acceleration (Emboar, Dark Patch, Blastiose, Colress Machine)
Crushing Hammer
Enhanced Hammer
Hypnotoxic Laser
Juniper/Sycamore
Pokemon Catcher/Lysandre
"Instant Killing" Pokemon/Trainers
Aggressive Trainers (muscle Band, dark Claw, Silver Bangle)
Overpowered Benched sitters
Trainer Lock
I believe this is the above issues I see with the game. In order to have a fun and competitive game, somethings are removed from the format deemed unhealthy for it. While ANY ban/restriction has some bias, its done almost all of the time to make the game healthier. Keep in mind what I listed above is NOT what should be banned but what I fell should be addressed. Sableye I would ban because of its usefulness in one deck type. Not only that, if Junk Hunt required any energy to be used, it would over centralize decks, make other deck types unplayable because it makes other "big basic" decks more powerful because they have more access to spent resources. One of Pokemon's current factors is little risk vs huge reward. Playing 4 Junipers in a deck allows many aggressive decks to at least see 1 card for a play. "Well I'll play this Virbank City Gym and juniper away 7 cards and hope I get my lasers. No need to worry much because I have Sableye." Sableye would be on my ban list because of its utility and exclusiveness. Other cards I would argue to ban are cards able to deal 200 or more damage in a single attack. Reason for that is these cards are backed by support that give them access to their attacks faster and have consistent use of the attack throughout the game. Some I would say are G-Booster, Black Kyurem EX (Black Ballista), and Both M Charizard EX (I would argue Charizard EX 012 due to its ability to 1 shot all stage 1 and 2 Pokemon, also some EX Pokemon with help). Maybe Rayquaza EX???
Similar to the VGC, a website came up with a group of rules to help make the game less broken and fun. One of their rules is a rule that prevents attacks that score instant knockouts from being used because they are fast and are hard to recover from. I argue the same for a TCG. No one wants to see their stage 2 they worked 3+ turns getting into play to be taken out by a big EX which only required 1 deck space to score the knockout. Recently a deck I build on PTCGO using a stage 2 Pokemon would lose out to things like G-Booster and Black Ballista, costing me 5 to 6 cards, instantly ending the game for me. Losing 5 or 6 cards to 1 card, that can do what it did the turn before again ends games for most, considering my 60 deck uses 28 to 32 trainers, while your 60 card deck can use up to 45. Removing these big hitters from the format opens up the game to other cards as well as make games more fun.
Other cards like Hypnotoxic Laser people would liked to be banned. I would like it to be banned but is it banned worthy? Like I said, all cards in Pokemon are at a automatic 4, unless the card says otherwise so when we see a Laser drop, we know 3 more are to follow, unless a Sableye is in play, then it can be 5+, depending on if the opposing got a good hand or not. By removing problematic cards like Sableye, cards can only be used up to 4 time. Even without Sableye, Laser as 4 is still too good. Bringing it down to 3 is still very useful. A good number for it would 2 but its still useful. Putting laser at 1 per deck will be best because it can still be useful, however Pokemon is a game with 60 card decks so I would argue we test it at 2. Virbank City Gym would be the reason I put it at 1 without banning or limiting Virbank City Gym.
Hammers are another think I think are a problem. While getting rid of DCE is a good option and one I really want to do during a game, we only do it because of Mewtwo EX, Yveltal EX and Bouffalant but other cards suffer from it, that are the main options of their deck. Without Sableye, the stress of dealing with hammers go down and decks that rely on them do better without seeing Junk hunts for hammers, the death wish of a game for that player. The only card I would ban here would be Crushing Hammer, as its able to discard any energy with the flip of a coin. I would put Enhanced Hammer at 1. There are still recovery options to get it back but its far less detrimental to the decks that rely on DCE or other special energy. I would argue for a outright ban of Enhanced Hammer as well as I feel energy should safer than what they are now.
I would restrict Juniper/Sycamore to 1 per deck, to help slow the pace of the game and for more strategic plays. Players wont burn their only Juniper/Sycamore to find 1 card and players can use other cards and perhaps better deck design, other trainers and draw support can be played. I would also restrict N but N would be put at 2 per deck. Another problem with the game is its draw power. While it can't be helped as its a fundamental flaw of the game, this format will offer more balance and skill. The goal is to not remove draw from the game but to slow it down and allow other options.
Other restrictions would be on energy acceleration. Thing like Dark Patch are less powerful without sableye and with a limit or 2. Pokemon like Blastiose and Emboar become 2 per deck, enough to still get their strategy but at a limit to where it can be overcome with careful planning. This places less importance of energy acceleration and allows other decks to be played. In a more skillful format, you see a little bit of everything. In a game where you can see 4 blastoise in play, you dont go after them but Blastoise at 2 becomes a better target where the player using the Blastoise has to stay on his toes. Other Bench sitters such as Garbodor and energy movers will also become 2 of as well. There are other cards that may be considered for a ban, such as Archeops for unintended card interaction with Pyroar.
A handfuf of items should be looked at, such as Max Potion but only items that are good at what they do and can impact a game. Bans and restrictions should only be used when they create unbalance within the game. Ideally you dont want to create cards that will get banned but sometimes card interactions are unintentionally created and must be addressed. As of now, my ban list would looks like this if used for testing.
Banned- 0 Per Deck/Side Deck
G-Booster
M Charizard- Flash Fire 013,069,107,108
Charizard EX- Flash Fire 012
Black Kyurem- Plasma Storm- 095
Sableye Dark Explorers
Crushing Hammer
Mewtwo EX
Yveltal EX
Dark Claw
Limited- 1 Per Deck/Side Deck
Professor Juniper/ Professor Sycamore
Enhanced Hammer
Hypnotoxic Laser
Pokemon Catcher
Lysandre
Klinklang (Plasma Steel)
Energy Retrieval
Superior Energy Retrieval
Professor Letter
Leafeon -Plasma Freeze- 011
Limited- 2 Per Deck/Side Deck
Aromatisse (Fairy Transfer)
Emboar (Infernal Fandango)
Blastoise (Deluge)
Keldeo EX
Garbodor
Trevenant
Dark patch
Blacksmith
Colress Machine
Muscle Band
Silver Bangle
Max Potion
N
Limited-3 Per Deck/Side Deck
None at this time
Again, this list is what I think would bring a healthy format to the game. if not adopted, I suggest it be tested and used for what I call Standard-Special, which will use 75 Minute, best of 3 with a side deck and a ban/restriction list.
I posted what I felt would be a justified reason for a ban and or restriction. What would you think would be best for the list or what would be remove. Please explain why you would add or remove. Try to keep bias out of it and think of the health of the game as a whole. Thank you for reading.
