Big Invites for Little Competiton
- Thread starter the_sniper
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I think Steve is just trying to make a point here. Can any of you justify 4 invites out of 400+ Master players at U.S. Nats (likely more)? That's 1% of the players. I didn't think so. I don't understand this "some made it in on one event" argument either, last year. Most Nationals outside North America aren't even as big as the GYM CHALLENGE I won. It's just a simple fact. And IMO, for the most part, the trips to Worlds for the United States will almost entirely come from those who Top 8-T16 Nationals, and that includes the auto trips and ranking invites. So, to say they still aren't coming down to one event, would likely be incorrect. That is all.
Rainbowgym
Active Member
Well that's exactly what you had the past 3 years, winning a simple Gym Challenge.
And you even could attend more of them.
And don't tell me those Gym Challenge were so large because they were not.
PokéMart
New Member
Right, and I'm absol-lutley not saying they shouldn't have their invites. I think they should.
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I pretty much agree 100% with this. I mean, if you're in the bottom half of invites, and have a bad loss at nats, you're done.
Now ALL of our invites are going to come down to one event.
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OK, here's a plan -- you come here and play in one of our regionals, etc; I'll go there and plan in the 29-person nationals. If it's equal that should be cool, right?
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badganondorf
New Member
I think the only reason POP is giving trips to countrys which have small Nationals is that POP is trying to make Worlds more international so everybody would have a chance. Because maybe we can see an European World Champion in each age category 
who knows. We'll just wait and see what's gonna happen in this year's Worlds.
who knows. We'll just wait and see what's gonna happen in this year's Worlds.
Rainbowgym
Active Member
I did play the Canadian Regionals and we finished 1st, 1st en 4th. but that's not hard competition according your standards.
If our Nationals would be open, you would be very welcome to play HERE.
I don't count the Belgium/Austrian/Malta Nationals.
Sorry they don't have real competition in those countries, we all overhere know that.
Rainbowgym
Active Member
Amazing, you must be so good in Pokemon. A 60-2 record.
I think there is no USA players who can even beat that.
I apprecaite everyone's post.
My post was not about not letting them go to worlds, it was simply to show the low #s of their nationals.
I am under the assumption (and yes I could be wrong) that we had our trips cut to favor the international crowd. And I am certain that if we compare numbers the US will have FAR greater numbers.
If more cuts are to come next year, I hope that the numbers will sway them from the US to other places.
There was only one trip that was easy in the continental US last year. And that was Michael B. He won a 8 (Or was it 12?) person gym challenge.
Lia I assure you that even in the years previous we had to WORK for our trip. Last year was the first time I didn't win a GC, instead I won 5th at nationals and earned my trip in a field of 316.
If I come off like an ******* fine, I am very aggrivated that our trips got cut and it seems that foreigners are just being handed trips.
The people aren't to blame. A common misconception is that Pete , Dave and Mike make all of these decisions. They are just the faces of the decision. Everyone who is going to worlds I encourage you to bring up all of this to Yasu and the other Japanese OP guys.
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It's not about the record. it's about LEVEL OF COMPETITION.
Anyone can go 60-2 if they are beating up on scrubs and people playing the LM gengar theme deck.
That is entirely the point Jim and I are trying to get through to you people.
This is like talking to a BRICK WALL
My post was not about not letting them go to worlds, it was simply to show the low #s of their nationals.
I am under the assumption (and yes I could be wrong) that we had our trips cut to favor the international crowd. And I am certain that if we compare numbers the US will have FAR greater numbers.
If more cuts are to come next year, I hope that the numbers will sway them from the US to other places.
There was only one trip that was easy in the continental US last year. And that was Michael B. He won a 8 (Or was it 12?) person gym challenge.
Lia I assure you that even in the years previous we had to WORK for our trip. Last year was the first time I didn't win a GC, instead I won 5th at nationals and earned my trip in a field of 316.
If I come off like an ******* fine, I am very aggrivated that our trips got cut and it seems that foreigners are just being handed trips.
The people aren't to blame. A common misconception is that Pete , Dave and Mike make all of these decisions. They are just the faces of the decision. Everyone who is going to worlds I encourage you to bring up all of this to Yasu and the other Japanese OP guys.
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It's not about the record. it's about LEVEL OF COMPETITION.
Anyone can go 60-2 if they are beating up on scrubs and people playing the LM gengar theme deck.
That is entirely the point Jim and I are trying to get through to you people.
This is like talking to a BRICK WALL
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NoPoke
Active Member
Squirtle I get what you are saying. It looks much the same from a european perspective too. Location matters.
Tego said it best: view hawaii 2007 as a Tropical Mega Battle and not a best-of-the-best championship. Previous worlds contained the best of the USA and I presume Japanese players and a mixed bunch from the rest of the world. The difference this year is that there will be smaller representation from the USA. Nevertheless I expect to see the USA cream still near the top at Worlds 2007.
Tego said it best: view hawaii 2007 as a Tropical Mega Battle and not a best-of-the-best championship. Previous worlds contained the best of the USA and I presume Japanese players and a mixed bunch from the rest of the world. The difference this year is that there will be smaller representation from the USA. Nevertheless I expect to see the USA cream still near the top at Worlds 2007.
I feel it is important to have many countries represented at Worlds. It is Worlds after all. The goal was to make Worlds an exclusive event, so invites needed to be cut. A straight percentage cut based on player population might have been the fair way to reduce invites, but the problem is you can't still be represented with a fractional number. One is the smallest number of invites that can be offered in a country, and there are a whole lot of countries where one is the number. I don't know how you'd do it any different without excluding a lot of countries, and that would diminish the Worldliness of the event IMO.
BDS
BDS
Gym Challenges:
2005 Irvine, CA: Players (72) 2006 Irvine, CA: Players (100)
2005 Cupertino, CA: Players (63) 2006 Santa Clara, CA: Players (99)
2005 San Diego, CA: Players (89) 2006 San Diego, CA: Players (74)
2006 Los Angeles, CA: Players (93)
Whatever you say, Lia. If our Gym Challenges are so SIMPLE, then why did our United States National Champion not even win one?
Location wise - I won't get into it, everyone knows how I feel about the West Coast having to travel further than anywhere else for an event.
Worlds - It's a World WHAT? CHAMPIONSHIP. The BEST players are supposed to be represented, to determine the WORLD CHAMPION. If the United States has MORE better players than anywhere else, why should they be shun for lesser players?
2005 Irvine, CA: Players (72) 2006 Irvine, CA: Players (100)
2005 Cupertino, CA: Players (63) 2006 Santa Clara, CA: Players (99)
2005 San Diego, CA: Players (89) 2006 San Diego, CA: Players (74)
2006 Los Angeles, CA: Players (93)
Whatever you say, Lia. If our Gym Challenges are so SIMPLE, then why did our United States National Champion not even win one?
Location wise - I won't get into it, everyone knows how I feel about the West Coast having to travel further than anywhere else for an event.
Worlds - It's a World WHAT? CHAMPIONSHIP. The BEST players are supposed to be represented, to determine the WORLD CHAMPION. If the United States has MORE better players than anywhere else, why should they be shun for lesser players?
ColdCoates90
Active Member
I think that this problem could be solved by:
Not allowing any trips/invites to worlds be given unless there are certain number of people in a certain division.
or
Having POP review attendance from tournaments and designating spots where people from different countries could compete in the same area so that a solid number of people show up to compete.
Not allowing any trips/invites to worlds be given unless there are certain number of people in a certain division.
or
Having POP review attendance from tournaments and designating spots where people from different countries could compete in the same area so that a solid number of people show up to compete.
Great comment. Instead of a person having to just do well at (1) gym challenge, they now have to do well at (1) national championship. Although the challenge will be more at nationals, I definitely think there is a problem with this statement. One tournament should not be giving out the majority of the trips to Worlds. And the worse part is that some of the best players in this game might skip out of Nationals just to save their rating.
And in the subject of how easy it is to win a gym challenge.
Sure, it's tough to go to a tournament filled with great players and win, but it's a lot easier than having to win multiple tournaments to improve your rating so you get a trip to Worlds. You compare winning a single gym challenge to having a high enough rating to go to Worlds and you will see that it doesn't even compare. Compared to the rating system, winning a gym challenge is VERY easy.
I'm not saying it's easy to do it. I'm just saying that this year, the methods to get to Worlds is much harder. Is that a bad thing? To some, maybe, to others, maybe not. It's all up to personal preference.
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Rainbowgym
Active Member
Excuse me, I am trying to get rid of closed events for over 3 years now.
Because closed events are the same as keeping away competition.
I tried to point out the differences for players outside the USA and their regions.
And now the problem of having only 1 shot at invites is knocking on more doors, there is commotion.
PokéMart
New Member
Lia, one of the reasons people don't take you seriously is because you are just so aggressive. You take everything as a personal attack, even though I've said, repeatedly, that my comments are not meant to imply that these particular winners shouldn't be going to worlds.
I would never say that Belgum doesn't have a great player, or that Canada doesn't have a great player, but it is foolish to think that the level of competition, as a whole, in either of those places even comes close to the United States.
Just within the state of Florida we have situation in Seniors and Masters
where you can find yourself playing a world's caliber player every single round.
Try going to one of our regionals - for isntance, the NC Regtionals I was two weekends ago. You want to make top16? You better not make more than one or two mistakes all day. Even that might cost you. Get a single bad matchup, and your day might be done.
Maybe you're te best player in Europe, and maybe you could come over here and kick our butts, and if that's true, awesome, I applaud you.
But I think if you took some of our players in the #30-#60 range into a 29 person field, they would walk right through it.
And that's not meant to be disrtespectful.
Remember, I said that one of the reasons those events SHOULD have invites is to GROW the game.
I think my main problem with the system now, as I said before, is that it reduces the invitation system to:
Luck. Because it is all going to boil down to whether or not you make cut at nationals, and, if you do, what your matchup is. Because I promise you, there are going to be people with one loss who miss coming out of their pod by tiebreak. For tose players, their world's lives came down to not only one event, but one game!
And, again, I agree with Steve. This isn't really the POP guys fault. I don't know who made these choices, but it doesn't really matter. The question is will there be adjustments made for the future.
Rainbowgym
Active Member
Maybe not simple, but you got 4 shots at a trip. FOUR in 2006 and 3 in 2005, that's 400% more than anybody in Europe had. We did not and still have not more than 1 shot. NATIONALS.
And why your Nationals Champion didn't win one, maybe because he didn't had a good deck during those days?
PokéMart
New Member
Not with me.
I'd have no problem with nationals being the one tournament to rule them all...if the numbr of invites matched the talent pool.
DING DING DING DING - We have a Winnah!
Professor Dav
Master Trainer
If all the players we invite are from the US, what is our motivation to run the WORLD Championships?
Seriously, perhaps we should just stop with Nationals, and then, as far as this discussion is concerned, we'll have the 'best' player in the World, from US nationals. Right?
Prof. Dave
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