The War of the States - Moved from Event Overview

[PokeDaddy]

IDK either. Always pluses and minuses to any decision.

Not always but in this instance, maybe. It will be interesting to talk to Mike and understand the rationale for the modifications.

There must have been a very detailed pros vs cons for this to be decided upon.

Pros - More free cash to increase travel awards and invites, less PUI staff overload, more exclusive events, potentially fair to those who play OP and have to travel

Cons - Less big draw events thus potentially limiting exposure of new players, potentially more Event staff overload, potentially unfair to those who play OP and can travel.

Or, just maybe, funding was cut at PUI and they did this out of necessity.

Steve

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

Trying to justify getting more States so you can build up OP in certain areas is a joke. You're giving away State level rating points and State level prizes to a small area and think its justifiable to have the same prizes as a state like California or Oregon? You also give the players in New England a chance to come to some small area and win a 50-70 person States and get the same prizes as someone over here who has to travel 6 hours for States and play in a 200 person tournament.

I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall with you East Coast people, good Lord.

1. Scizor, this is pure prejudice. Last time I checked there are 50 states in this Country and each has a right to have a state level tournament (if PUI has the funds). I suggest a public apology for being biased against smaller states.

2. What the issue is about are points.

a. In a 48 person event, you have say 16 masters. That's 4 rounds. There will be one undefeated and 4 at 3-1. Cutting to top 4, The best one can do is 6-0, while you'll have one at 4-2. If K = 32, assuming 50% throughout the match, one person will gain 96 points, the next best will gain 32. The rest of the field is a wash. OK, next day at a different state, same amount of people, same situation. One player gets 96 points, one will get 32, and the rest are a wash. The UNLIKELIHOOD of the same player performing the same on consecutive days is low. IF that person is that good, THEN the likelihood of getting an invite at Nats is HIGH.

b. Take a 200 player event. 8 rounds cutting to top 8 (same limit as last year). One player will go 11-0, a couple at 9-2, a few more at 8-3, etc..... Assuming same percentages and K values, that one player just made 176 points, the 9-2's made 112 points, etc... A one 200 person event will provide more points per person based on rounds and cut size versus a two 48 person events. Now that the math is done, one can see that the smaller venues are at in unfavorable and disadvantageous position.​

So, I suggest, large-travel-time-to-States/Regs complaining cease. This new structure FAVORS larger venues and HURTS smaller venues. Mathematically there will be higher points from folks who have higher turnout events and less points for those with lower turnout. Last year provided better balance. This year is unbalanced.

East Coast - West Coast.

No, it is tournament size.

 

[PokePop]

I can't believe I'm locking this thread!
I hope all of you are pleased getting this locked.

 

[PokePop]

OK, I moved these posts off into their own topic.
They are, however, getting too personal.
Keep the argument on the merits.
It doesn't matter if one person here can win a states there. Take that off the boards to AIM.
Keep the discussion on States being crunched into two weekends.

Or I'll be locking AND handing out infraction points!

 

[ChristianOrtiz]

so heres my input.. i kinda agree with truk and scizor because they were right.. last year most of the NE got to go to more events than the west or claifornia. The people in the east if they had $$ or have a car they can go to any tournament. because most of the states are about 3-4 hours away.SO at least this year its balanced out and sorta equal for all sides..

and its to bad that tj's aint running regionals this year ;/ we still can get a regional in NY tho..>_> maybe pokepop can do it

 

[DarkMagnus]

yes we got to go to more events maybe, but that was needed just to balance our scores for the lack of attendance, now some places wont have a states that they might deserve. also there will be a huge point gap now becuase of our ability to make up for lost points by playing more events. as a Greater NE player you will notice the horrible point diff by States and you will flip your attitude. its like Tom Shea says all the time Bigger events will make your tournys worth more points no need to give them a higher k val.

 

[ryanvergel]

Come to Florida. It's easy to win here.

 

[Professor Dav]

We'd love to see a State Championship in EVERY state. However, some states simply do not justify the expense. Should we 'force' a State Championship into, say, Wyoming or Montana when we have few, if any, basic events running there? I'm sure some people from surrounding states would travel, and love the opportunity to play in an additional event, so, should I add the $$ from my budget to operate an event in a non-viable location, just so they get a state?

CT and NH are not quite the same as the states I mentioned, however, IF those are the states that are 'suffering' under this revised model, think about WHY they're suffering. I know that Tom has invested a good deal of time into trying to grow these states, but, they're growing VERY slowly (if at all), compared to other locations around the country. He can’t be there every day to evangelize the brand. He isn’t there every day running league, and making friends with parents and players. These are the things that end up leading to a healthy local player base.

Looking over sanctioning numbers for New Hampshire, for example, yields an interesting result. The ONLY tournaments that have EVER been completed in New Hampshire have been sanctioned by Tom Shea. Each completed event has been a Premier Event; Cities, States, and Prereleases only. Same holds true for CT. More events, but all have been run by Tom’s crew (Go Bob!). All the completed events are either Premier events, or side events at those Premier events hosted by Tom’s crew.

Do we really think that the majority of the players at those events are from New Hampshire? No. NH players account for less than 50% of the attendance at their events, so after three years, who are we catering to? League status in NH is questionable as well. Of all the players registered in league in NH, approximately 10% have active My Pokemon accounts. Non registered players are not verifiable by POP, and therefore, do not necessarily count as a full player in our calculations.

Why has someone in NH not stepped up to organized more events, such as you have in RI? Tom has been working this state for nearly three years, and the growth is horrendously slow, unless you count players from out of state.

There are other, more established OP Programs that run their State Championships on ONE day. Not two. ONE. You get to go to ONE event, and you have to show residency requirements. I realize some people would LOVE to see us do this, but we don’t really think it’s fair to make our players from Kansas City, MO (for example) drive 4 hours to St. Louis to participate when they can drive 20 minutes to play in the KS State Championships in Overland Park, KS (near Kansas City, KS). We think this would be a surefire way to reduce overall attendance across an event series.

Bottom line is this. POP will do everything, within reason, that we can do to grow new player bases in new locations. However, we will not 'force' it to happen, just so it happens. IF the NH Players (or CT players, or whomever) really want a healthy Premier Event series, someone should step up and start working as a TO. Then, that person can be a new resource for our PTO to work with, and run City level events and above, and potentially grow into their very own PTO.

POP does, and always has, supported localities based upon what that area can self-support. Is there a qualified person willing and able to run events, and grow the game? If not, it really doesn't matter if Pete, Mike and I all flew all over the country running events in those locations. They WILL NOT grow. They will not grow without evangelists on the ground every day, running leagues, pick up events, and then growing into having regular premier events.

Thank you,
Dave

 

[Scizor]

Give it up for Dave!

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

yes we got to go to more events maybe, but that was needed just to balance our scores for the lack of attendance, now some places wont have a states that they might deserve. also there will be a huge point gap now becuase of our ability to make up for lost points by playing more events. as a Greater NE player you will notice the horrible point diff by States and you will flip your attitude. its like Tom Shea says all the time Bigger events will make your tournys worth more points no need to give them a higher k val.

FYI this is incorrect, I bet you Dave could confirm this, as well. Just because our states have more attendance does NOT mean we have more rating points available for running more swiss rounds/higher cuts in some cases. The reason you're wrong is because you guys get as many, if not more (likely) Battle Roads and City Championships PRIOR to States to build up several players within a few hours drive of each State to have a high rating come States, thus increasing the value of gain for those who do well at States. You have no lost points, take a look at the NE compared to say, California last year at this time, and I can guarentee you that I'm correct.

 

[GinoLombardi21]

Yeah, you had so many events and you were the only person to get in from all of your inflated ratings, I think that says something. BTW, please show me where I claimed you got more than 1 invite? .... That's what I thought.

How can we have the most numbers at Nationals if it's 2500 miles away? Ask yourself that. How far is it for you? .....That's what I thought.

Basing our performance on one event is just plain foolish.

You could smash all of California? What a joke. Bring it on, buddy. Let's see you play that garbage Machamp vs TRUK's Banette from 2006 10 times, if you win 3 of them I won't ever say another thing.

You want to fight like this? You guys are really showing your class. Here I am coming up with logical suggestions, "complaints" and analysis and you're making it personal.

Well, good job, you've MADE it personal.

U didnt claim I got more than 1 invite but ur complaining and saying how the NE doesnt deserve a shot to play in worlds for the invite is ridiculous. Plz read everything i say more correctly. Just cuz we have a better spread of events and places to play doesnt mean take it out on us.

Btw nationals is 1500 miles away from us. Machamp vs. Banette from 06? Way to hold grudges. Plz move on. Im not making it personal. If your taking it that way then idk. Its pokemon guy. Get over yourself.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

sigh.

I know for damn sure, you will never top cut a California States/Regional. Its wierd you always run your mouth at the worst times. You wonder why nobody likes you.

Your numbers don't make sense either. Whats new, you just run your mouth without looking at facts and logical theorys.

This is also more than East/West (Sounds like a Rap Thing hahahaha) Its the entire United States. But since you guys wanna start a fight. Bring it I just may waste $300 to come to your states.

I probably would top cut at CA sc or rc. I always run my mouth? Dam man what fun is a game if you cant talk smack/trash/junk. Its a tcg stop looking at it like this great greek god thingy. I always look at facts and logical theorys. Honestly CA,FLR, MIDWEST arguably has the best players in the US. Its pokemon beef + pokemon dont really mix. It just makes you look stupid. If u come to one of our states and u win i'll quit the game.

 

[TheDarkTwins]

How can one justify granting a SC to a State with only 23 registered POP IDs in all age groups combined?

And then you have places like Oregon (129), Washington (135), Colorado (135), Texas (219), and California (342).



EDIT: Deleware has only 8 registered POP IDs. 4 Masters, 3 Seniors, 1 Junior.

Well, DE states have had more people than that. I personally like playing there. For some odd reason, even tho the same players play in all the events around here, I only do well at DE. I have played 3 years there and gottend 3rd, 3rd, 2nd. I would go there over my own state for that reason.

If an PTO/TO is willing to organize it for a certian state that state should be allowed to have it. You are thinking the wrong way. The goal of having the events is to boost sales and have more players in OP. By telling a state you dont have enough players to qualify for a state, some players are gonna quit because there is no OP around them. It also prevents newer player from joining the TCG for the reason there is no events near them to play. I think that it isnt about how many players in are in a certian location in some events, but more of how do we make that area grow more than it already is. Do, I think that California should have 2 States. Yeh, but they should be on the same day and be like a North/South Cali thing. I am not sure I would be willing to have any other state get 2. But Cali should. It is one of the bigger states with a lot of players that have to travel long distances.

JMO Tho,
Drew

 

[KingOfKings715]

This is cute lol Umm so summary

-Some states rightfully so dont get a State tourney
-Less tournies in the NE makes it more fair for everyone else
-Scizor is still annoying XD

Seriously though, Scizor your RIGHT CA should have much more events!! Look how big it is and the player base there. Did the NE get too many tournies last year? Yea but CA should have had just as much. Instead of having less tournaments to make it "fair" they should have added more tournaments with a high player base like in i dont know CA!!!! So everyone would be happy instead, cause more events means more fun :-D

 

[Martin]

i want more cali turnereysss!

 

[Bolt]

I like the 2 States thing across the board, maybe on three weekends though. But I personally don't think 1 Regional is enough. It feels like everyone was within 6 hours of two regionals last year (I'm probably wrong though).

About DE - States was won by Caleb J, a NY player...Mid-Atlantic Regionals by Frankie D, a NY player. There are more than 8 people at their States because everyone travels there...because it's easy to win.

Also, Chad and I discussed it a little over AIM, and I'm wondering. Does POP take into consideration cost of living of designated areas? Larger cities like New York and (insert the expensive ones in Cali) take a toll on our bank accounts, and it's not always easy to travel places, even when events are in close range.

Don't come out here, truk...Mikey and I are going to win everything. Feel free to enjoy your third places finishes though

Finally...Rambolt won worlds.

 

[DarkMagnus]

So you guys are saying that an areas skills are based on there population to size/player ratio that our lower numbers makes the skills of players such as gino and brian and less valid. by having large tournements you are getting higher scores possibly by beating easier opponents just on the large number of rounds, 2-3+ rounds can always make the diffrence. So i suggest much like the top cut cap, a Round cap so that large states aren't given an unbalancing lead in points.

 

[Articjedi]

I probably would top cut at CA sc or rc. I always run my mouth? Dam man what fun is a game if you cant talk smack/trash/junk.

Because the mods (and a lot of the players) get uppity at anything that looks hostile on this board. You're pushing it buddy.

 

[Pidgeotto Trainer]

I like the 2 States thing across the board, maybe on three weekends though. But I personally don't think 1 Regional is enough. It feels like everyone was within 6 hours of two regionals last year (I'm probably wrong though).

Northwest has always been max 2 States, 1 regionals, with nothing else even close to reasonable distance.

 

[yuyuman345]

hmm this is just a idea
ok what if pop did something made another degree for like pto sponsering
like give them alot of stuff
but it be more public
like you can try out to be a pto or something
and if you paas the test (like a professer) you get prices and mabye some money
there would be a age limit
but they must conduct like a tourny aweek if they want the continuation of prise support i.e don't get paid, don't get extra prom otional pop things.
i mean its not a bad idea making it public
also i think that we should get more places for regionals, cities etc
i mean we should take away from 1 to be even
the more tournies you have the more advertisement you have
over here in pa its gotten a lot bigger
at least 3 or 4 more leagues started
so i think we should get more pto and sponcer them like that
we could bring alot of players in the game

 

[NoPoke]

yuyuman345 I'm sorry but I don't understand a word you wrote

 

[ShawofMordor]

give cali two states so they stop whining. they are a massive state its pretty reasonable. if you're cutting money from the northeast or other areas there should be some extra budget.

i personally think every state should have a SC but prizes can be determined by players in that state.

DE has 8 people, ok, give it an SC still but make the kvalue lower and give it only a $200 prize not $300 etc. im just giving an example, obviously you'd have to juggle a lot of numbers.

so the fact that northeast has an event per state when people can travel to multiple ones is offset by the fact that these smaller events is worth less.

use numbers from the previous year's states to estimate kvalue for current year. or use count from the year's city championships to estimate how many will show up to states

also just a side note to consider. do people from ohio really need the same amount of travel allowance as someone from washington state?

 

[yoshi1001]

give cali two states so they stop whining. they are a massive state its pretty reasonable. if you're cutting money from the northeast or other areas there should be some extra budget.

i personally think every state should have a SC but prizes can be determined by players in that state.

DE has 8 people, ok, give it an SC still but make the kvalue lower and give it only a $200 prize not $300 etc. im just giving an example, obviously you'd have to juggle a lot of numbers.

so the fact that northeast has an event per state when people can travel to multiple ones is offset by the fact that these smaller events is worth less.

use numbers from the previous year's states to estimate kvalue for current year. or use count from the year's city championships to estimate how many will show up to states

also just a side note to consider. do people from ohio really need the same amount of travel allowance as someone from washington state?

You're talking about a significant amount of overhead for the folks over at PUI, particularly when it comes down to things of which few are given out. I'm not sure it would be worth the effort on their part.

Also, why should a smaller SC, which is already disadvantaged by having a smaller number of rounds, be further disadvantaged by reducing its k-value?